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09-03-2006, 12:54 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>pre-1930... Thought this shot was interesting. What a pain shagging a line drive to Centerfield. How difficult could it have been to hit an Inside the Park?.. Also note the old left field slope. Anyone remember the name of that feature? I reckon the Mackeral Snappers are on the mound to Exorcise the Curse. To keep it partly on topic, there is a Piedmont sign by CF.<br /> <br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1157215858.JPG">

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09-03-2006, 01:06 PM
Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>From Wikipedia:<br /><br />"Duffy's Cliff"<br /><br /><br />From 1912 to 1933, there was a 10-foot-high incline in front of the then 25-foot high left field wall at Fenway Park, extending from the left-field foul pole to the center field flag pole. As a result, a left fielder in Fenway Park had to play part of the territory running uphill (and back down). Boston's first star left fielder, Duffy Lewis, mastered the skill so well that the area became known as "Duffy's Cliff".<br /><br /><br />The incline served two purposes:<br /><br />it was a support for a high wall; and<br /><br />it was built to compensate for the difference in grades between the field and Lansdowne Street on the other side of that wall.<br /><br /><br /><br />It also served as a spectator-friendly seating area during the dead-ball era when overflow crowds would sit on the incline behind ropes. It is often compared to the infamous left field "terrace" at Cincinnati's Crosley Field, but, in truth, the 15-degree all-grass incline there served an entirely different purpose: as an alternative to an all dirt warning track found in most other ballparks. It was a natural feature of the site on which Crosley Field and its predecessors were located; slightly less severe inclines were deliberately built in center and right fields to compensate. The incline in centerfield of Minute Maid Park is a tribute to Duffy's Cliff.<br /><br /><br />As part of the 1934 remodeling of the ballpark, the bleachers and the wall itself, Red Sox owner Tom Yawkey arranged to flatten the ground along the base of the wall, so that Duffy's Cliff no longer existed, and thus became part of the lore of Fenway Park. Thus the base of the left field wall is several feet below the grade level of Lansdowne Street, accounting for the occasional rat that might spook the scoreboard operators. ("The Fenway Project", ISBN 1-57940-091-4.)<br /><br /><br />For decades there was considerable debate about the true left field distance, which was posted as 315 feet (96 m). For years, Red Sox officials refused to remeasure the distance. Reportedly, the Boston Globe was able to sneak into Fenway Park and remeasure the line. When the paper's evidence was presented to the club in 1995, the line was finally remeasured by the Red Sox and truly restated at 310 feet (94.5 m). The companion 96 meters sign remained unchanged, until 1998, when it was finally corrected to 94.5 meters. A theory about the incorrect foul line distance is the former 315 ft (96 m) measurement came from the Duffy's Cliff days. That measurement likely included the severity of the incline, and when the mound was leveled, the distance was never corrected. A quick study of the geometry of "Duffy's Cliff" suggests that the theory has merit. Regardless of the posted distance, frustrated pitchers will always argue that "The Green Monster" is closer than the sign says.

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09-03-2006, 02:36 PM
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>What a pitcher's mound! And people think Bob Gibson had it easy in 1968.

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09-03-2006, 02:44 PM
Posted By: <b>bcornell</b><p><img src="http://www.t207.com/images/fans_sneaking_into_fenway_1903_mcgreevy_collection .jpg"><br />This is a great photo of fans scaling the wall to get into Fenway in 1903 (this year, the traffic is going the other way <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>). It's from the 'Nuf Ced' McGreevy collection in the Boston Public Library.<br /><br />Bill

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09-03-2006, 02:45 PM
Posted By: <b>Bob C</b><p>Forget it.

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09-03-2006, 02:58 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>It's okay Bobby. Im non-PC, but an R/C too! Hey, It's our sense of humor that sustained as a people all these centuries. Right? If not, I'll pop into the velvet phone booth, say some prayers and be forgiven anyway. <br /><br />Jumped the track a bit there;<br /><br />By the way, nice photo Bill. That was a great old park and the Boston Amer. beat Honus that first WS! Ya think people will ever wear suits to games again? Cy's old pitchers mound is inside the Student Commons at NU, off Huntington Ave.

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09-03-2006, 02:58 PM
Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Bill,<br /><br />That photo is actually from the old Huntington Avenue Grounds which is about a mile southwest of Fenway. The park no longer exists and the land is now occupied by Northeastern University. I attended grad school at Northeastern and walked by a statue of Cy Young pitching every day on the way to my office. A bronze homeplate 60 feet from Cy marks the spot of the original homeplate. Norhteastern has embraced the historical significance of owning the land where the first world series was played.

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09-03-2006, 03:12 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Likewise, Nickerson Field at Boston University's West Campus was the old Boston Braves ballpark, and when I was a freshman living there, part of the outfield wall was still standing (and I assume it still is). I used to play intramural softball on the same plot of land where Babe Ruth finished his career. Also, the original entrance on Babcock Street looks as it did a century ago.

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09-03-2006, 03:21 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>Barry,<br /> Part of the original bleachers is still up at Nickerson and used for Terriers games. I believe they overlooked the third base line. What years were you at BU?

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09-03-2006, 04:57 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>My freshman year at BU was 1969-70. We were NCAA hockey champions that year. The football team was pretty good too. Bruce Taylor, who went on to play for the 49ers, was the star player. I think I remember part of the outfield fence was still intact, and while I haven't returned there in many years, I assume it is still standing.

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09-03-2006, 06:12 PM
Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Back then they used to say "That's just Duffy being Duffy". Really.<br /><br />I'd like to bring the left field hill back, but Manny's Cliff just doesn't do it justice.

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09-03-2006, 07:17 PM
Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Manny had a tough enough time with better lighting and level turf...<br /><br />returnaddress

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09-03-2006, 09:54 PM
Posted By: <b>bcornell</b><p>I had forgotten that the Sox played that first WS at the Braves field because they had the bigger park. And, of course, Fenway didn't open until 1912 (d'oh). McGreevy was a 'Royal Rooter' when being a Red Sox fan was easy, i.e., because the team in NY was lousy.<br /><br />Bill

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09-03-2006, 11:13 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>Bill, it is confusing. <br /><br /> Both parks were across Huntington Avenue from one another(by the Fens). I don't believe there is a marker for the old Nat'l field and Ruggles Street T station and tracks are in it's place. The South End area was a ghetto when I was growing up, but now it's being resurrected, much like Harlem is experiencing.<br /><br />Huntington Ave Grounds; Boston Amer. c1900<br /><br />South End Grounds; Boston Nat'l c1870<br /><br />If you download Google Earth you can easily find the footprints of many forgotten Stadiums' ghosts. Including Ebbets', Polo Grounds and League Park in Cleve. Very fun program.<br /><br />

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09-04-2006, 01:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Here's a few snapshots I have of Fenway from C1920.<br /><a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/7760/fenway4smallbx7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a><br /><a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5044/fenway123mediumhx2.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

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09-05-2006, 05:54 PM
Posted By: <b>Robert S</b><p>Here are some photos of Fenway from a photo album from 1912, that originally belonged to someone affiliated with the Sox -- likely the bat boy.<br /><br /><img src="http://vintageball.com/files/1912_Sox_album3.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://vintageball.com/files/1912_Sox_album2.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://vintageball.com/files/1912_Sox_album.jpg"><br /><br />

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09-05-2006, 05:56 PM
Posted By: <b>Robert S</b><p><img src="http://vintageball.com/files/Blank_Back.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://vintageball.com/files/1915_Fenway150.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://vintageball.com/files/Maybe_Ruth.jpg"><br /><br />