View Full Version : Which is better?
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08-21-2006, 07:13 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>In the recent Mastro auction, there was a lot of about 15 Turkey Red cards. They were all very nice, except that each had a pinhole. I am aware that, even if there are no other flaws, PSA will always give a card with a pinhole a grade of PSA1. However, these cards were all graded "authentic". There was no mention of any kind of alterations to the cards that would necessitate a designation of authentic. Do you suppose the people at Mastro feel it's better to be authentic than to be labeled a 1? Are there collectors out there who feel that way? I have several Turkey Reds in my collection that are in the same boat - very nice, save for one pinhole. Would I be better off asking for an authentic designation, and skipping the grade of 1? If not, why did Mastro go that route?
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08-21-2006, 07:29 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian H (misunderestimated)</b><p>Better is a personal preference question so I take it you mean more valuable.<br />The jury is out on whether as a general rule a grade of Authentic generally commands a higher price than a low grade. I would say taht it depends on the card and what it flaws are -- which I realize isn't helpful in placing a monetary value on the cards. I can tell you that for set registry purposes a PSA 1 out ranks an "Authentic" if that's your game.<br /><br />I would assume that Mastro (or whomever) submitted the cards for authentication did so in order to cause possible buyers to literally look at the card without thinking about the grade.
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08-22-2006, 01:20 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>My T3 was returned graded PSA Auth.(altered) due to clear tape on the back -holding together a severe crease with tearing. The front looked decent but with four pinholes. I would have preferred a 1. No biggy though.
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08-22-2006, 01:31 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Until there is some differentiation between authentication for a low grade and authentication of a trimmed, colored or otherwise altered card, I would prefer a 1 to an A. <br /><br />That said, buy the card, not the holder.
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08-22-2006, 02:10 PM
Posted By: <b>Keith O'Leary</b><p><P>When I see an "authentic" grade, thoughts immediately gravitate to altered with the intent of making the card look better (whether its deception or personal preference) .....If I see a nice looking T3 PSA 1, its usually because of a tackhole. When PSA calculates set ratings, 1s will be included in the equation while "authentics" won't. To me, an authentic card = suspect card...all card things being equal, I'd take the 1.</P><P> </P>
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08-22-2006, 02:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>If I see a card with the AUTH designation then I'm thinking discount otherwise I wouldn't pay the price for the card. To me, regardless of what people have told me, the AUTH designation indicates some type of alteration (trim) that may have led to the card having a more aesthetic appeal. I've heard people state that the submitter didn't want to have a low number assigned to the card so they requested the AUTH designation. To me, this is a smoke screen.
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08-22-2006, 02:30 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>Its all about eye appeal.<br /><br />If an item is graded a 3 and has a crease through someone's face, I may prefer the Authentic with a pinhole off to the side somewhere.<br /><br />I'm not saying I would pay more for the authentic... but I would rather have it as part of my collection.<br /><br />The only thing that bothers me about authentic is when a card is trimmed a lot (even a slight trim doesn't bother me). But when a card is noticeably smaller than the correct size, I stay away.<br /><br /><br />Edit to say: I don't think I would like a card that was intentionally touched up or colored.
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08-22-2006, 03:17 PM
Posted By: <b>jeffdrum</b><p>There are often mitigating factors and an AUT grade does not always denote intent to deceive. Take a Fleischman's (sp?) with the tab cut off, SGC won't grade without the tab but you can have it encapsulated as Authentic. I prefer to have it slabbed but in no way does the AUT grade mean that I am trying to deceive anyone about the card.
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08-22-2006, 03:34 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>"I've heard people state that the submitter didn't want to have a low number assigned to the card so they requested the AUTH designation. To me, this is a smoke screen."<br /><br />I have submitted low grade T3's before that were slabbed Auth by PSA. I called in and asked why they were not assigned a number grade and if there were any alterations. Direct from the PSA horses mouth: "The cards are not altered in any way. We just felt that they would look better in a PSA "auth" holder rather than a holder with a low number grade. That is what most collectors prefer."<br /><br />Thanks PSA.<br />
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08-22-2006, 04:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p><img src="http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/.Pictures/20th%20Tobacco/1914%20T222%20Fatima%20Bresnahan.JPG"><br /><br />This card resides in an SGC Authentic holder. The top edge of the card appears trimmed and the card is a little shorter than other T222s. In this case I would prefer this card over an SGC 10 or PSA 1. We've all seen some pretty beat up T222s. Just my opinion.
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08-22-2006, 04:40 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard Masson</b><p>I agree with you, Bruce.<br />All we need now is a way to put "A"s into the set regisrty, for those of us who use it as a checklist of sorts. Maybe SGC will come up with this innovation, which would make sense for the grading company that prides itself on being the "vintage guy."
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08-22-2006, 04:50 PM
Posted By: <b>Scott Mosley</b><p>I didn't know this for quite a while but if you want to enter in your Auth cards into SGCs registry, you can enter them in as 10s.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Scott<br /><br />Edited to add that maybe this is common knowledge to everyone but me but I know that I got frustrated by not being able to enter my cards which were graded Auth until someone mentioned that they could be entered as 10s. Just thought I would share that tidbit for those that care... sorry if it is common knowledge.
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08-22-2006, 06:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard Masson</b><p>Really?
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08-22-2006, 07:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Keith O'Leary</b><p><P>Generally, I think Authentic cards carry a stigma. When I first read the Mastro description of this lot, the first thing I thought was "there must be something else going on with these cards" (never giving thought to maybe it was requested).</P><P> </P><P>I think when buying authentic cards, you have to be comfortable with why it got the grade it did. With some, its as little as a magic marker filling in a small spot, with others, major professional restoration work could have been performed.</P><P> </P><P> </P>
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08-23-2006, 07:59 AM
Posted By: <b>dd</b><p>Which is better?<br /><br />The card that is in better overall condition and has greater aesthetics.
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08-23-2006, 08:02 AM
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>Bruce,<br /><br />great example.<br /><br />I would prefer that card over many SGC 20s and 30s.<br /><br />Its all about eye appeal to me.<br /><br /><br />Regards,<br />Joe<br />