Recognizing Fake Goudeys

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Posted By: <b>Drouillard</b><p>Hello Everyone,<br /><br />This is my first posting, I've been collecting vintage for about a year and I could use some help. <br /><br />I purchased the Bill Dickey card on the left about two weeks ago on eBay as vintage and I'm pretty sure its a fake. The card on the right I purchased six months ago and I believe it is authentic. (I'm hoping that the pictures appear on the post, they are vissible in photobucket, but do not appear when I press preview). The fake Goudey is the right size, but is a little thinner than the card on the left which makes me now believe that it is a reprint. I don't see any tampering between the words Goudy Cum Co. and Boston on the back of the card. The seller of the card on the right had over 1500 positives and listed the card as Vintage, although he didn't advertise the card as a 1933 Goudey (this is a flag I ignored).<br /><br />I'm not upset about paying too much for a fake, because it is a good lesson; I just don't want to be fooled again. You cannot see a card's thickness in an ad. So, I'm looking for other tips to spot fakes. I did use your search engine and learned that the red stripe at the bottom of the card bleeds through on originals. I assume this means there is a shaddow at the bottom of the back of the card, not actual red ink. I have also read a posting where a player's bat or arm will extend through the margin of the card on originals. Of course this doesn't apply to my Bill Dickey cards. I do notice that the artwork in the grass at Dickey's feet is more defined in the fake with thin diagonal lines. In contrast the card on the right is solid green. I wonder if this would be a clue?<br /><br />If you have any other ideas on how to spot fake Goudeys on eBay listings I would appreciate it. <br /><br />I've enjoyed reading your postings and I've learned a lot in the last week from discovering this site. I hope that I can become a help to some of you in the future.

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Posted By: <b>Drouillard</b><p><a href="PUT YOUR FULL LINK HERE" target="_blank">PUT YOUR SHORT DESCRIPTION HERE</a> <img src="http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m10/northviewcats/32462-1.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m10/northviewcats/32445.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>but they both look good to me..........<br />

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p> The Dickey card is a tough one, especially since the photos are at an angle and slightly blurry.<br /><br /> There are many different types of R319 reprints, and some are easy to spot (black ink back, perforated edges, borders too wide, scuffed back, etc.), but some are better and tougher to spot in a picture or scan.<br /><br /> The places I look is the ends of the red strip on most but not every single authentic card will slightly extend into the border more than the background color just above it. Most reprint will have a perfectly straight color edge all the way around the borders, while the authentic R319 cards will have certain colors and the red strip not line up perfect at the border. <br /><br /> The bleed through you look for on the back is not a bleed through, it is a wet sheet transfer, where the sheets of the authentic cards were stacked and some of the front ink of the bottom sheet transferred to the back of the sheet above it. The red strip at bottom is the most noticed color transfer seen on the back (but not every authentic R319 has this). <br /><br /> Other things I look at are the edges of the photo being cropped and compare the distance from certain parts of the card to the border. On the Dickey it is tougher as the only things close to the border are the name "Bill Dickey" and the blue line across the top. On the reprint the blue line may be narrower (cropped photo), but its hard to tell from the pictures.<br /><br /> In person the reprints should have a smoother slightly glossy surface, and the card stock should be far thinner.<br /><br /> That card with that blurry picture will fool collectors. The back ink color looks good, and it is not one of the Renata Galasso reprint (scuffed between the "GUM CO." and "BOSTON"). Its one of the tougher reprints, most are easier, especially the Ruths.

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>if you hold a real goudey in front of a light bulb it will block the light. the light will penetrate the fake and you will see both frt and back.

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Posted By: <b>bobbie</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1153610198.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1153610223.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Joe Drouillard</b><p>I'm going to guess fake, based on Ruth's hat and elbow do not infringe into the border and the alignment of the red bar matches the background border.<br /><br />Thanks to those who have responded already to my original question. You've been a big help.<br /><br />Joe

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>As for the Dickey cards, (and I've been looking for an affordable, raw VG one for a while) the one on the left is a reprint.<br /><br />Look at the one on the left, the green grass has "hatching" or cross marks, which sometimes occurs with reprinting. And even by looking at your images it is easy to see that the card on the left is too thin, when compared to the Dickey on the right which looks real to me.<br /><br />Goudey cards are printed on a sandwiched cardboard. There are at least 3 layers. My recollection is that somewhere during the run of 239 cards there was a slight change in the "sandwich". And I think I got that out of a truly great article that was in The Old Judge, Mr. Lipset's newsletter of about 15 to 20 years ago. I think the article ran in 3 parts. I'm confident someone on this board would recall that article, or can tell you more about the "sandwich" off of the top of their head. I might try to dig those articles out of my piles of stuff. Don't know where to start digging, though.<br /><br />The idea of shining light through the card is correct. I think the deal is that no one manufactures raggedy paper like the "sandwich" stuff used years ago. I suspect a super sly crook type could buy really nice Goudey Indian cards, bleach them down, then try to reprint something. But folks in the know could still tell, I'd hope.<br /><br />As for how to identify a reprint on eBay... ask the guy for a "better" scan and about his return policy. I just returned a Red Ruffing Diamond Star that was trimmed a bit. The fellow accepted the return, for which I was thankful. I halfway hope he gets the card slabbed so some slab-head buys it, oblivious to the trimmed nature of the card. I suspect they slab folks catch most trimmed cards and don't grade them... but I doubt if they catch them all!

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Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>bobbie, Im not a Goudey Collector but that Ruth looks fake, especially the back and ink colors.