Hack Wilson - Gamer or not?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Prillaman</b><p>Any thoughts or comments as to the authenticity on this item. The gentleman who brought it to us yesterday has had it since 1989. Included is the letter seen and several pictures of the bat. Sorry for the size of the letter, but whenever I shrunk the file size you couldn't read it. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151424721.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151424695.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151424679.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151424668.JPG"> <br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151424766.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Jeff asked if he could post this for some help....so of course, 99% of the time when someone asks, I don't have a problem ...with O/T.....I know many folks on the board collect bats.....regards

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Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Does not look like a gamer from the markings. However, if there are any vault marks on the opposite side of the barrell than it could be. Player models were usually 125 or even 250, but there have been exceptions with vault marks. If it came from the H&B vault I would assume some marks would be somewhere on the bat. I do not really collect bats, but I have a very rare circa 1918 Negro League star game used bat with vault marks, and I have owned probably 20 pre-war game bats in the past.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Usually, 40 model bats were store models - most times the<br />40 is followed with the initials of the player (i.e. L.W. - in this case). I have a Heilmann that is 40 HH.<br /><br />If it came from the Louisville find then it is most likely that it is a gamer.<br /><br />You should contact John Taube - www.gameusedbats.com -<br />very knowledgeable and helpful.<br /><br /><br />Hope it helps,<br /><br />Mark

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Jeff, www.gameuseduniverse.com has a board/forum like ours used by knowledgeable game used collectors and dealers. You can post your bat there.

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Posted By: <b>joe</b><p>I agree with Mark, the 40 is usually a store bat. I have a Ty Cobb bat with 40TC, Louisville Slugger and have been told it is a store bat. I think there might be instances where other than 125 bats could have been game used by player. <br /><br />Joe

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hey Jeff,<br /><br />All above seems sound advice. I've seen 40 on store model bats. I have a 180 that I believe is store model. My "real" bats all have 125.<br /><br />What is to the right of the oval?? Flame Tempered bats were made for the public, Powerized for players, I can't read what yours says.<br /><br />I, too, think it is a store model bat. Even though I'm in Kentucky, I've been to H&B multiple times, even have some of their old pattern bats, I'm not a bat-expert.<br /><br />Good luck with it. And post one more picture showing the label and the markings to the label's right.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Frank.

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>To the right of the label looks to read "Bone Rubbed".

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I never know how much knowledge is out there... sometimes lots, sometimes not so much...<br /><br />From early days when it was just Hillerich, cracked bats found their way back to Louisville. These bats were used as a pattern so that the workers could lathe down duplicate bats and send them out to the players. H&B amassed a huge collection of cracked bats, many had the first letter of the player's last name painted (or inked) onto the barrell, followed by a number. If a player needed more bats, he could write or telegraph back and H&B could find what he had been using.<br /><br />The OLD bats had thick handles, and the balls weren't rabbit-like. Bats lasted a long time. They were seldom broken. Strikeout totals weren't astronomical.<br /><br />By the time Hack was playing, players swung from their heels, a la Ruth. Strikeouts soared. Bat handles were skinny, the weight of the bat was shifted out to the barrell, which was of larger diameter. Bat physics had much to do with the increase in home runs, although most folks think only of the lively ball, playing with new white clean balls (after Mays' pitch), and folks wanting to be like the Babe.<br /><br />So if this bat is cracked, and if you see a "W" painted on there faintly, with about 3 didgits following, then it might be a gamer... <br /><br />See what the others think of this.<br /><br />Frank.

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Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>Just a question for my own edification: Shouldn't a letter of authenticity cite the name of the "major west coast dealer" it was obtained from for added provenance? Seems kind of loosey-goosey (a technical term) and akin to saying it came from the "Mr. X" collection.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>bat? I have a game-used bat H&B book at home that generally has the lengths of the HOFer's and better players in it. I would seriously doubt that the '40' bat is a gamer though. Of course, Dave Bushing would be your best source as he has the actual vault records (or copies thereof) from H&B. He's been at both of the H&B auctions and is in routine contact with them.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>I think that maybe not a lot is known about Hack Wilson gamers because the Mastronet reference guide to game used bats doesn't have any model numbers listed for Wilson's bats. Unless this bat has vault marks on it having the "40" designation is not a good sign. I would say not a gamer on this one.

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Posted By: <b>ralph</b><p>Its clearly not a game used bat, the 40 desgn.is glaring proof,also the letter states.." Louisville accumulated bats over the years"..these are bats that didnt sell,they are not game used.Ive had many 1930ish bats over the years and can plainly see its not a gamer.