Piedmont Cigarette Pack....1910 [Archive]

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06-15-2006, 12:58 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI picked-up this PIEDMONT Cigarette pack to go with my all-Piedmont T206 set. Printed on it.....Factory No. 25 2d. Dist. State of Virginia The stamp reads.....Series of 1910.....Act of Aug. 5, 1909 I'd like to know if this pack contained a Series 150 (or a 350) T206 card ? <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1150330307.JPG">

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06-15-2006, 01:01 PM

Posted By: RayBTed, I don't know the answer, but it sure is a treat to see one of those. Nice scan. Thanks. RayB

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06-15-2006, 01:12 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisA scan of the flip side of the pack..... <img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/bpiedmont.jpg">

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06-15-2006, 01:46 PM

Posted By: josephThey used that stamp from 1909 till the twenties. Chances are that there isnt any cards in it.

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06-15-2006, 02:10 PM

Posted By: leonThe only way to definitively tell if a card was ever in a pack is for the pack to still have the ink overstamp on the tax stamp, with the specific year on it. It's a pet peeve of mine, and other pack collectors, when someone touts a pack as once having a card and the pack has no ink overstamp on it. regards ps...I realize you were only asking if one could have come in it...the answer is yes one could have....we just don't know for sure...even with the overstamp I believe there were other cards put in packs too...from the same time period..

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06-15-2006, 02:17 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisJoseph This pack includes a protective insert box (for the cigarettes); and, it's my understanding that a T206 card (or two) was inserted between this insert box and the inner wall of the pack. This pack sizes up perfectly for a T206 card. So, explain to me why you doubt that this particular pack did not include a card ? We need Jon Canfield's expertise here. T-Rex Ted

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06-15-2006, 05:49 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisLEON I am in total agreement with you regarding this pack. And, you are absolutely right....."we'll never really know".....if it originally included a T206 card. I just thought since the original insert was in it, perhaps, it did. I had not seen this insert in other packs. Furthermore, instead of a T206 premium....it could have contained a movie star premium. It doesn't matter to me.....I wanted a Piedmont pack to go with my set....and it didn't cost me a bundle. T-Rex Ted

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06-15-2006, 06:15 PM

Posted By: leonsorry, I messed up the sequence of posts here when I tidied up the first image you posted....btw, my Piedmont pack is identical to yours without an overstamp either...(I am assuming yours doesn't, I didn't see one ..)

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06-15-2006, 06:39 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisLEON Thanx....I can always depend on you to re-format my oversized scans. No overstamp on mine. I am curious.....does yours have the identical stamp.....and more important, does your include the "protective box insert" that contained the cigarettes ?

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06-15-2006, 07:56 PM

Posted By: Jon CanfieldTed, Sorry for my late response! Unfortunately I have this damn NY bar exam to take in July so I've been preoccupied as of late. Congrats on the pick up by the way. To echo a few things that have been said, dating is not an exact science. One poster mentioned that 1909's were used until the 1920s. I don't believe that to be competely accurate - 1916 at least. However, it is important to remember that the series of 1910 was used much more than the series of 1909. I've always found that very few 1909 tax stamps appear late (1914 and beyond) and the vast majority have an overprint on them. That being said, I do want to point out your pack also has "American Tobacco Company" on the bottom front in the script. As most know, the ATC was split up in 1911 and one of the 4 companies that spawned off was Liggett and Myers. A few later series Piedmont packs have been discovered with the Liggett and Myers name printed on the bottom - one a few years ago yielded a 350 series T-206 and came from Factory 25 in Va. (article can be found on t206museum.com). So, I'm sure like any company, they would use their inventory of boxes until they ran out, but considering that 1910-11 packs have been found in Liggett and Myers packaging, from the same factory as your pack and bearing a 1910 tax stamp - I seriously doubt the supply of ATC printed boxes ran much past 1911ish - certainly not into the late 1910's. I think it is important that the pack with the Liggett and Myers branding came from Factory 25 because the boxes have the factory numbers printed right on them - not on the tax stamps. Therefore,it is a posibility that factory 25 ran out of "old" packaging years before factory 42 did for exaple.) That all being said, the 1909 tax stamp with the early box design makes me believe your pack is much earlier - 1909-1910ish. Is this a guess? - Yes - but I think it's at least reasonable.

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06-15-2006, 08:39 PM

Posted By: leonFirst of all "thanks" Jon for chiming in. I know we can always count on ya'. Ted- my box is essentially the same as yours...it does have the inner part called the "slide"...these are slide-shell boxes, fyi if you don't know...and amply named. I looked at mine this evening and just noticed, after years of having it, that it has a catalogue system writing on the side. Kind of neat....regards <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1150339103.JPG">

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06-16-2006, 02:17 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisLEON I had hoped Jon would elaborate, and indeed he did....thanx an awful lot, Jon. One slight difference between your pack and mine is....you have an L & M pack while I have an ATC pack. Thanx much for displaying yours; and, clarifying the "sliding shell" box.

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06-16-2006, 05:16 PM

Posted By: Bruce Babcock<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/uffda51/01GardinerLucasbox.JPG"> I've posted this before. Too bad they didn't include cards of some kind with the candy.

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06-16-2006, 05:51 PM

Posted By: Richard DwyerJust wanted to also point out that Leon"s box is the same one I have. (Stamp, date, factory 42, etc.) Both Leon's box and mine also have Ligget & Myers & an "Allen & Ginter Branch" sticker on the sides of the box.

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06-17-2006, 07:28 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisLEON Just to place a "face" (or actually a back) on our Tobacco Packs..... My "ATC" pack (if contained a card) would have had an earlier Series T206 (2nd Dist. VA.) <img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/ap150_350.jpg"> But, your "L & M" pack would have included a much tougher P460/42 card (4th Dist. N.C.) <img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/ap460.jpg">

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06-20-2006, 08:28 PM

Posted By: AnonymousThis was a pack that was torched on this very network a couple of years ago as a GAI blunder that could not possibly have a card inside...well I am glad to say that I had the pleasure of opening a tobacco pack that has never seen the light of day since the early 1900's...and what a beautiful card inside (even though it is a common) <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1150771058.JPG">

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06-20-2006, 08:30 PM

Posted By: Dave KelleyI did not intend for my post to be anonymous...I am still learning the ropes around here!

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06-21-2006, 07:39 AM

Posted By: Bill KWow Dave....thanks for sharing! It must have been exciting opening that pack. Personally I could never just sit on an unopened pack. I know Jay opened a bunch with T205's, but how many of you have actually opened a vintage pack and found a card inside? Bill My personal collection - <a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/</a>