Why is this sweet caporal pack so low?

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Posted By: <b>Henry Eshelman</b><p>Why is yorktown the only bidder on this with only a day left? I thought these went into the thousands especially with no tobbacco leaking out.<br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-19-SWEET-CAPORAL-UNOPENED-PACK-GAI-7-T206-MR-X_W0QQitemZ8752360493QQcategoryZ44827QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-19-SWEET-CAPORAL-UNOPENED-PACK-GAI-7-T206-MR-X_W0QQitemZ8752360493QQcategoryZ44827QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br><br>Thanks, Henry Eshelman<br /><br />Website:www.freewebs.com/vintagebaseball

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Maybe people are finally getting smart and realizing that there is no chance of a baseball card in GAI slabbed packs. I think the more plausable reason is that it is being offered by a respectible dealer and there is shill bidding going on and his description doesn't give the false hope that you might get a Wagner, or any other baseball card.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>being offered by a respectible dealer and there is shill bidding going on<br /><br /><br />?<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I had a bunch of unopened (ungraded) c. 1920 Sweet Caporal packs with the<br />same design as the T206 packs. I sold them with the description that there<br />would be no cards inside but the packs are nice looking and would display <br />well with someone's T206 collection. They sold in the $75-100 range each, which<br />says that the cardless packs do have value. This is the pricing range I use<br />when I look at other packs (including GAI packs) being offered on eBay. These $2,000<br />for a pack is insane in my opinion, and I don't take as face vale that the pricing is<br />legitimate. However, for a pack closer to 1909, I would expect the pricing to be higher <br />than I got. The packs are sharp looking little display items and the buyer should in<br />general price them based on their display value, not on the hopes there'll be a<br />card inside. As I said, the 1920s SC packs have the same general design as the 1909-11 <br />packs, so display value for your T206/T205 collection doesn't have to cost you<br />$1,000.

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>I agree with everything David says. I'll be honest, I have sold a few dead on EMPTY SC backs from 1909 with the right tax stamp, overprint, and factory numbers - those I usually get $200-$300 empty - it may seems steap but exactly matching the packs, even on empty containers, is hard to do (forget about finding a true unopened SC pack). Period SC packs usually bring $75-$100; depending on if they are 1914ish, or 1920ish and whether they are full or empty.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The rule of thumb should be, if you want a T206 card buy a <br />T206 card and not a pack hoping a T206 will plop out. For the $2,000 that<br />some of these packs go for, think what kind of T206 you could get-- a pretty<br />dang sweet Walter Johnson for example. And if this Walter Johnson fell out<br />out of your GAI sealed pack, think how excited you'd be.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>*<br />It's a Mr X! .... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>There is only one bidder - what would make you think Yorktown (a respected bb card seller in his own right) is shilling?

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I assumed it was typo, and that Steve meant to write 'no shilling.' The seller was teased (about 4x too much in my opinion) over the 'Mr. X,' but I don't beleive anyone is questioning his ethics.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>"I assumed it was typo, and that Steve meant to write 'no shilling.' The seller was teased (about 4x too much in my opinion) over the 'Mr. X,' but I don't beleive anyone is questioning his ethics."<br />*<br />*<br />*<br />Who's teasing???<br />Just like the word RARE has lost its meaning.<br />RARE is a four letter word for HYPE. <br /><br />Who's talking about ethics???<br />We're talking about the sellers poor man's public relations sellers 101 approach.<br />The Invisible Mr X! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />If a dealer wants the pack, I have no problem with that, .... he's a dealer.<br />If a newbie, or starry eyed collector/investor falls for the HYPE - that's another story.<br /><br />I would love the winner to have that pack opened by an expert, not a grader, but a PACK expert at the National.<br />If Mr X didn't have the guts to pull the trigger, is there someone out there that will?<br />THINK of the PR for the Seller - Mr X - and the Buyer!<br /><br />Mr Rudd, <br />I would never think of questioning your forte knowledge of glamor photography, but there are a few times that I might when you stray into the sports arena. ..... and I'm not an expert.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Joe, here's a brief summary/translation of the above conversation between John and myself:<br /><br />Josh: "Was Steve saying there is shilling?"<br />Me: "No, I don't think he was saying there is shilling. I don't believe anyone is implying that the seller is shilling in this auction." <br /><br />If you find great controversy in that conversation, that is your choice. As I type there is still only a single bid from YorktownSC, so I didn't think I was going out on a limb when I doubted anyone was accusing the seller of shilling.<br /><br />I understand you dislike the 'Mr. X designation' and, beleive it or not, I also dislike the 'Mr. X.' designation. I just didn't think it as big a deal as some did. I find the 'Mr. X' silly rather than offensive. If you find it offensive rather than silly, that's fair.

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Posted By: <b>Richard Dwyer</b><p>This same seller tried to sell the same box months ago. When he found out from the experts here at network54 that the box didn't contain a T206, he withdrew the auction. This time he relists, and puts that there's no chance of finding a T206 inside. There's no fraud, just someone who doesn't know what he's bidding on. I don't think there's another sucker out there, but you never know. I believe the "Mr. X" was the thing the motivated the buyer, nothing else.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Guys<br /><br /><br />I did not do a typo. I was quoting JAY. I was not sure what he meant hence my <br /><br />?<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>The whole "Mr.X" thing still remains one of the dumbest things that this hobby/business has ever encorporated but the seller did nothing wrong and was honest about it's contents. How many "sleeze ball" sellers would be honest in this situation realizing that if he/she hyped up the pack, that the thing would sell for three times this price. Who knows, maybe Different Strokes Dad Conrad Bain* (Mr. X?) bought it at first with the ideas of pulling a "sweet" PSA9" and found out otherwise. <br /><br />You never know.<br /><br />DJ<br />* or Mr. X could be He-Haw star and professional banjo player Roy Clark. <br />

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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>But if i remember correctly the mr X thing did bring some decent $'s a few months ago.<br />I mean in relation to similar cards up at the same time.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>My question was really to Jay (not steve) who was the first to mention shilling. Perhaps it was just a typo.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>We archive this thread.<br /><br />I predict that this very same pack will make another command performance in the very near future.<br /><br />It has been purchased by the famouse buyer of GAI SC Fac.30, Dist.10, NC.<br />As we all know, it really should be Dist. 4, NC.<br />Apparently, GAI in their infinite grading wisdom mislabeled a FEW of the SC packs of different grades.<br />A slight miscalculation, not to be taken seriously by pack collectors. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />A remake movie of the above pack, the Star of this thread, should be making the rounds of your favorite theatre's near you.<br /><br />The working title is still on the drawing boards.<br />It could be:<br />Have You Met Mr X?<br />Why Did Mrs X Force Mr X to Sell His Toys?<br />Or just plain, Mr XXX. (R) ratings are better than RARE ratings.<br /><br />I don't know about you, but I'm waiting with an apex high anticipation for the rerun of the above pack.<br /><br />My predictions: 90% CORRECT. ......... 14% of the time.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>many of the packs purporting to hold t206 get shill bids because they are offered by shady dealers. This seller is far from shady.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I agree about the seller, however the hi bidder can be a tad shady at times.<br /><br />I once bought a card from them and it was overgraded by 4 grades.<br /><br />that is why I asked as i was not sure if the buyer and seller were one and the same or in cahoots.<br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Just curious- Why is it that there is "NO" chance of a card being in these GAI-slabbed packs?

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>One can date a pack to an era or specific date by the manufactuer name, tax stamp and overstamp-- thus, identifying which packs are from the wrong era to have a T206 or card. Board member Jon Canfield has a booklet on the subject. The following is a good informational start <a href="http://cycleback.com/packdate.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cycleback.com/packdate.html</a> ... Additionally, any Sweet Caporal pack made by Kinney Bros. (will say so on box) is too modern to have cards, as Kinney Bros. acquired the company later on.<br /><br />Packs that can be pinpointed to T206 land (correct overstamp, factory, type of pack) are rare, making up a small fraction of the vintage packs around. Thus, the rule of thumb for the collector is to bid on a Sweet Caporal or Piedmont pack assuming it has to no cards inside, as it likely won't.

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Posted By: <b>Ricky Y</b><p>I agree that maybe the novelty is wearing off on them...and the knowledge that bb cards aren't in there after all...If I owned it I'd be curious to rip it open more to actually take a smoke...kind of like those folks who ripped the 52 packs and took a bite of the stale gum...hack cough..on the second thought maybe not...<br /><br />Rick