The Problems with Slabbing "packs" - Piedmont [Archive]

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01-11-2006, 08:46 PM

Posted By: canjondOk Ok - not meant to bash any company so please don't think this is one of the million posts we have about the different companies; but here is the problem when companies slab items they don't fully understand... <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/HONUS-WAGNER-UNOPENED-BASEBALL-PACK-T206-PIEDMONT-GAI_W0QQitemZ8747168667QQcategoryZ27260QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/HONUS-WAGNER-UNOPENED-BASEBALL-PACK-T206-PIEDMONT-GAI_W0QQitemZ8747168667QQcategoryZ27260QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem</a> I can't really fault GAI as they did not claim this is a 1909-1912 pack like they did for a little while. However, the seller is misleading people; at least in my opinion; and the buyer is going to learn an expensive lesson! I'm sure GAI's encapsulation can be credited with over $2000+ in bid thus far. And to think, no baseball card is even remotely possible in this pack!

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01-12-2006, 05:51 AM

Posted By: Bruce MacPhersonJon, I am not a pack collector, but I am curious for some insight as to why the pack does not contain a T206 and is not from the 1909-11 era. I assume that the factory number is wrong for a t206 card, but how can you date the pack? Can you elaborate a bit. Thanks

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01-12-2006, 06:30 AM

Posted By: Jon CanfieldThe first major give away is the 12 cigarette pack as opposed to a 10 cigarette pack. A second problem with the pack is the Liggett & Meyers designation on the bottom of the pack as the American Tobacco Company did not break apart until 1911, making it extremely unlikely a card could make it into an L&M pack although possible. The last problem is the dating of the pack. The tax stamp would be a 1903 with an over print, a 1909, or a 1910 with an overprint. All are missing. Without seeing more of the pack, my guess is that it dates from 1920ish give or take - most likely 1918-19.

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01-12-2006, 07:36 AM

Posted By: Joe P.Thank you Jon. I grieve for the winner. An education can be expensive, and scholarships are hard to find. However, I feel that we can all agree on one thing, and that is: Graders are outstanding when it comes to corners and sides. Jon, you've not only done your homework on the subject matter, but you have also written a book on it. Bravo and thank you for the heads up. ..... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-12-2006, 09:33 AM

Posted By: JimBThe over-hyped description and private auction doesn't make one feel good either. JimB

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01-12-2006, 10:31 AM

Posted By: AnonymousIt's a shame that the bidders can't somehow be warned -- or at least made to be more informed. It's obvious that you know whereof you speak. While we have zero knowledge about unopened cigarette packs (or any cigarette packs, for that matter), we still would be far more inclined to trust your opinion than the seller's. We learned about the auction through your post. Now even if we HADN'T read your post first, we still would have found the auction page itself to be ridiculously overhyped. Promoting an item is one thing, but that page practically screams used car salesman. (It reminds us of those Crazy Eddie's commercials from the 1970's.) We wrote to the seller, and actually brought the post to his attention. His reply was friendly enough, but unfortunately (and not too surprisingly), he did NOT elect to post our question and his reply on the auction page as he had done for a few other questions. Not that we expected him to make it publicly available -- after all, reading your post would have undoubtedly given his bidders a great deal of pause. Anyway, thanks for sharing the auction and your knowledge on the subject -- we'll probably never have the occasion to put it to good use, but then again, you never know. In case you're interested in seeing what the seller had to say, here's our question and his reply: *** Item: HONUS WAGNER UNOPENED BASEBALL PACK T206 PIEDMONT GAI (8747168667) This message was sent while the listing was active. josepheenella is a potential buyer. We don't doubt the authenticity of the pack itself, but at this point do have strong doubts as to the possibility of a card existing within the pack. This is not our realm of expertise, but please read the posting here: <a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1137041181/last-1137076241/The+Problems+with+Slabbing+%26quot%3Bpacks%26quot% 3B+-+Piedmont" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1137041181/last-1137076241/The+Problems+with+Slabbing+%26quot%3Bpacks%26quot% 3B+-+Piedmont</a> The above posting is how we found your auction. Again, this is beyond our own field of expertise, but there are those who would say that your auction is excessively hyped-up and overindulgent, given the myriad of questions it raises. [Writing off the absence of a tax stamp by saying, don't ask for one, for some reason there isn't one, seems odd.] According to people in the know, so to speak, the very probability (or impossibility) of the insertion of a card -- comes down to the year of production, which is determinable by the tax stamp. Just wanted to bring the thread to your attention, and would be interested in your response. *** Response from jayco31bh Item: HONUS WAGNER UNOPENED BASEBALL PACK T206 PIEDMONT GAI (8747168667) This message was sent while the listing was active. jayco31bh is the seller. THANKS FOR THE EMAIL. THE REASON I SAY DON'T ASK ABOUT A TAX STAMP IS THAT I EXPECTED 10,000 PEOPLE TO ASK AND FOR WHATEVER IT HAS NOT BEEN STAMPED, AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY. OF COURSE I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME AND MY KNOWLEDGE OF THAT IS 0. I WAS NOT TRYING TO MISLEAD, JUST DON'T KNOW. IS MY LISTING OVER HYPED? WELL I DO TRY TO GET THEM MOST FOR MY $$, SINCE EBAY DOES NOT CHARGE US BY THE WORD. I TRY TO BE HONEST IN MY WRITE UPS. SHOWING ALL PICTURES AND SAYING THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE A CARD IN THERE. WHAT I HAVE FOUND IS JUST LIKE MY BUSINESS, PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY ARE IN THE KNOW--MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT BE. WHO REALLY KNOWS. I DO APPRECIATE YOUR EMAIL AND ALWAYS TRY TO ANSWER AS HONESTLY AS POSSIBLE. BEST OF LUCK. THANKS

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01-12-2006, 10:42 AM

Posted By: davidcycleback..

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01-12-2006, 11:58 AM

Posted By: Anonymous.

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01-13-2006, 02:44 AM

Posted By: Joe P.To All Investors: Don't miss out -- Sign the Private Guestbook. Remember: It's Authenticated -- and: The Seller ALWAYS TRIES TO ANSWER AS HONESTLY ------- AS POSSIBLE.<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Sellers words: "I DO APPRECIATE YOUR EMAIL AND ALWAYS TRY TO ANSWER AS HONESTLY AS POSSIBLE."

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01-15-2006, 06:28 PM

Posted By: SeanSold for $4500...

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01-15-2006, 06:46 PM

Posted By: Richard DwyerWow! What a sucker! eBay should have a button on their auctions that would tell the buyer what to look out for when it comes to fraud on the most popular fraudulent items. I'd be happy to contribute info. (I already suggested to eBay, no response).

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01-15-2006, 10:10 PM

Posted By: Joe P.* It's Authenticated -- and: The Seller ALWAYS TRIES TO ANSWER AS HONESTLY ------------------ AS POSSIBLE.

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01-16-2006, 01:18 PM

Posted By: Joe P.? <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Honus-wagner-T206-tobacco-pack_W0QQitemZ8749368113QQcategoryZ44827QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/Honus-wagner-T206-tobacco-pack_W0QQitemZ8749368113QQcategoryZ44827QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a> Did it originates here? ..... <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44827&item=8710628381" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44827&item=8710628381</a> Is it a Mr. X? .... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-16-2006, 01:42 PM

Posted By: Scot Reader I have noticed that a lot of these unopened packs are from Factory 30, North Carolina. Of course, all of the T206 cards having a Factory 30 back are from New York. Does anybody know the history of Factory 30? Was it moved from New York to North Carolina sometime after the T206 production run? If so, when? Thanks. Scot

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01-16-2006, 02:20 PM

Posted By: Jon CanfieldUnfortunately I do not have all of my sheets here to look up all of the factory information. However, a few years back, there was a large find of unopened Sweet Caporal backs from the "Ask Dad" advertising camapign of the late teens (I believe around 1918-19). This may be the factory in which the finds were made from. Again, someone else may know as I do not have the relevant info with me at school but it seems plausible. All in all, these unopened packs are worth a couple hundred tops; not a couple thousand!!!

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01-16-2006, 03:36 PM

Posted By: Joe P. <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-19-SWEET-CAPORAL-UNOPENED-PACK-GAI-7-T206-MR-X_W0QQitemZ8752360493QQcategoryZ44827QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-19-SWEET-CAPORAL-UNOPENED-PACK-GAI-7-T206-MR-X_W0QQitemZ8752360493QQcategoryZ44827QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a>

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01-16-2006, 03:44 PM

Posted By: Richard DwyerYou're right Jon. Ask Dad were from Factory 30, 2nd District NY. American Tobacco Co.