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12-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p>In another thread the phrase "imaginary money" was mentioned a couple of times. What if an eccentric rich relative you never heard of left you $100,000 tax free dollars, on the condition that you could only spend it on vintage (pre WW II) baseball cards, and had to spend it all within a one year period? You could not spend the money on a car, pay down your credit card debt, buy health insurance, etc.<br /><br />$100,000 is a nice hunk of change, but probably not enough to get a nice T206 Wagner. Would you buy, say, 5 or 10 high end cards? Or some complete sets? Nothing but tobacco cards? Nothing but caramel cards? 19th century only stuff? Old Judge cabinets? Babe Ruth cards? Moe Berg cards?

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12-22-2005, 11:54 AM
Posted By: <b>Chris Mc</b><p>I'd buy PSA graded Robert Wagners (JK) I would buy a variety type cards. Buying a complete set would take some of the fun out of it for me.

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12-22-2005, 12:00 PM
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I'd finish off my T206 set. With the rest of the money, I'd do a massive man hunt for e107 HOF cards I like and purchase 3-4. Then I would purchase 6-7 mid-grade n172 Hall Of Famers. Then I'd be broke.<br /><br />DJ

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12-22-2005, 12:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Harry Kress</b><p>Brewster's Millions <br /><br />Richard Pryor<br />Dec. 1, 1940 to Dec. 10, 2005<br /> <br />

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12-22-2005, 12:17 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>Wow! Id pick up the pace quite a bit, but I wouldn't change anything else. And after the year was up Id sit back, revel a bit, and plan.

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12-22-2005, 12:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I'm not sure 100k would get me all the ones I wanted, but I'd get the Charleston and Lloyd for sure. I'd like to get the HOFers in the Toleteros sets I don't have yet, too. Gibson, Day and Smith. In low grade, I think I could come damn close to finishing off my Negro League collection with a 100k. <br /><br />--Chad

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12-22-2005, 12:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>First of all, how would the $100,000 be given tax free? What type of estate planning is involved? Is there a minimum/maximum monthly withdrawl? Is the money in trust? <br />Sorry, the lawyer thinks too much.<br /><br />As for the cards, I would finish up my '33 Goudey set, (110 cards to go) with a Lajoie and pick up some E and T Mattys.<br><br>Go Go White Sox<br />2005 World Series Champions!

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12-22-2005, 12:27 PM
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Plank and Magie in EX. Or I could put a VG Wagner on Lay-Away, or is there anyone who would let you rent-to-own on a Wagner???

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12-22-2005, 01:06 PM
Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>I would stay as far away from E-Cards as I could possibly get since their prices are completely inflated. <br /><br />I would buy as many 19th century type cards, team cabinets of professional teams, and Old Judge cards as I could get my hands on since they are the best value right now in vintage items.

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12-22-2005, 01:12 PM
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>I would try to get as far into a T206 HOFer PSA 7 / SGC 84 set as I could ... with an eye on grading consistency and all graded by the same company. By the way, how far would I be able to get into such a set with 100K? assuming starting with cheapest

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12-22-2005, 01:27 PM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>I could be wrong, cmoking, but I think that you could get a pile of PSA7s or equivalent about 50 high for $100K; and that includes some big names.

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12-22-2005, 01:44 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Bruce- How about if you add that in order to get the money you would have to spend one night in a haunted house. That is usually a stipulation for collecting on these inheritances.

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12-22-2005, 01:56 PM
Posted By: <b>.</b><p>,

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12-22-2005, 03:00 PM
Posted By: <b>drdduet</b><p>Ruth's & Cobb's and maybe a CJ jackson

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12-22-2005, 03:04 PM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I'd buy some nice CJs or some very nice caramels if they could be found.<br /><br />Rhys,<br />I disagree about caramel prices being inflated. I think they are finally being valued properly when compared with similar types of cards from the era. They are great looking cards and a hell of a lot harder to come by than comparable tobacco issues like T205 and T206 in any condition, much less half-way decent condition.<br />JimB

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12-22-2005, 03:07 PM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Josh<br /><br />For estate planning purposes, isn't this question 5 years premature, as aren't all Americans planning to die in 2010 when the estate tax exemption expires and the tax is re-instituted?<br /><br />As for $100,000 in cards, I'd buy all the T4s I could. <br /><br />Max<br />

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12-22-2005, 03:08 PM
Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>I agree absolutely Jim. Caramels were very unappreciated and undervalued and are just now starting to reach the levels trhey should have been all along. I'd take the 100 grand and buy as many E94s, E97s and E98s as I could in EX or better.

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12-22-2005, 03:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>--tax free, and after giving some to my kids and buying a car for my husband and paying some mortgages, I DID spend nearly 100, 000 on vintage cards, here're the first ones I bought:<br /><br />1&gt; Peck and Snyder, Cincinnati<br />2) Old Judge portrait of Radbourn<br />3) N338-2 Ewing<br />4) Old Judge HOFers<br />5) PSA 2 T206 Eddie Plank (subasequestly sold to bid on Walker photo and PSA 6 N162 Kelly)<br />5) N162 baseball players<br />6) N300 baseball players.<br /><br />I only planned the first two, and things I wanted cropped up unexpectedly, so I traded off.<br /><br />I NEVER considered a Wagner, a 4BH Kelly, a N167 HOFer. (Or, actually, a Joe Jackson Boston Store--about my favorite card--I mistakenly thought I couldn't afford it). )<br /><br />But what I'm saying is that with a finite amount of money under 200,000, there were cards I did not allow myself to persue, because I thought they were too rich for my collection, and would severely limit my buying of other cards. I think everyone does this. Whatver your buying power, you are aware that there are somew things you will never have--unless your bujying power is in the millions.

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12-22-2005, 03:56 PM
Posted By: <b>Shannon</b><p>Ruths,Cobbs,Johnsons and Mathewson cards. As many as 100 grand could buy.Maybe try to finish the Yuenglings set.

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12-22-2005, 06:39 PM
Posted By: <b>whycough</b><p> Right now I'm into certain '33 Goudeys in high grade. The #230 Hubbell, #220 Grove, #160 Gehrig all are beautiful in 8's or 9's. Then I would look for Boston Store/Cracker Jacks Shoeless Joe. To follow until the money runs out: '39 Playball Ted, '38 Goudey Joe D, '38 Goudey Bob Feller, '51 Bowman Mantle, '32 Caramel Ruth, Brunner's Bread Cobb, '48 Leaf Ted. I like eye appeal, not necessarily highly graded. But I have a hunch that $100,000 wouldn't last long with me. Old Judge Hoss Radbourne portrait for dessert.

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12-22-2005, 07:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Kevin Savage</b><p>Barry-<br /><br />I think to collect the $100,000 you should have to spend a night in a haunted cardshop. There are several of these around - but I'll warn you - these are scary places haunted by dealers who traded their souls for a pile of E-107's, a T-206 Wagner or Plank, or even worse - a Topps Vending Case from 1986.

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12-22-2005, 07:37 PM
Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>A couple of Negro League HOFers and HOFers to be and some more Old Judges.

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12-22-2005, 07:46 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>How many card shops are left? Most of them are haunted by now.

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12-22-2005, 09:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>Jim<br /><br />E cards are WAY over priced right now. $600 for a SGC 2 Honus Wagner E91? How about $40,000 for a Breisch Williams George Davis? How about $2300 for a Dockman graded PSA 1 Wagner? The $500 recently paid for a Poor condition Connie Mack E98 is another example? People have been paying hundreds and thousands of dollars for low grade caramel cards which there are hundreds of examples known of each card. I can go on and on and on about carmel cards. If you compare them to T205 and T206 cards, they are rare. Compared to similar and earlier issues they are not that rare. There are literally thousands of caramel cards out there and at any given time there are lots to choose from on ebay. Vintage baseball cards have increased quite a bit over the last few years and I have been watching prices closely on all these issues for years. However, in my opinion there is NOTHING as infalted as caramel issues right now, NOTHING. These cards have literally undergone 1000X increases in the last few years while rarer issues have not gone nearly as high.<br /><br />Of course this is just an educated opinion, and everyone who wants to keep throwing money at E cards can go right ahead and it does not bother me. But I can not think of anything else in the hobby with values as inflated as almost all the E card sets right now.<br /><br />Rhys

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12-22-2005, 10:07 PM
Posted By: <b>Colt McClelland</b><p>I have to chime in on this issue since I track many of the caramel issues very closely. No doubt, you can look at some "outliers" with caramel cards and say that the prices seem to be way too high. However, I think this is the case across a lot of segments of the baseball card market. Further, I think this has probably been true for at least the past 20 years in this hobby (that's as far back as I have any memory or knowledge). In other words, there have always been pockets in this hobby where people go out and pay WAY too much for certain cards. Case in point - the whole PSA "low pop" common phenomenon that started several years ago and continues to this day. It just seems to move from set to set, decade to decade. I tought it was crazy when people were paying $200+ for a "common" from the 1977 Topps set in PSA 10. Today, the same card can be had for $20. The same thing is still true with low pop PSA 8 commons from many of the Topps sets from the 50's and 60's. Some of these "low pop" PSA 8 commons can go for $2,000 or more<br /><br />But, I think it is wrong to say that caramel cards are the most inflated segment of the hobby. Just like it would have been wrong to say that the 1977 topps set was the most inflated set in the hobby when PSA 10's were going for $200+, and just like it would be wrong to say that the 1950's and 1960's Topps sets are the most inflated segment of the hobby now. Certainly, the caramel cards have gone through a "hot" phase. I have to agree with some others that a lot of this was simply a long overdue correction to put caramels in line with many of the other pre-war cards in terms of the price/scarcity spectrum. <br /><br />However, a better way to analyze the issue would be to look at the more "normal" sales that are taking place on a regular basis for caramel cards. For example, in the last 6 months, I have seen 3 different sales of E95 Mathewson cards in PSA or SGC 3 holders - all in the $600 to $700 range. I don't think these prices are "WAY over priced". In fact, I think these are very fair prices in terms of the popularity of the player, and the scarcity of the set. There are many more examples of caramels that are selling for what I would consider to be fair prices when compared to other popular pre-war sets (especially in terms of HOF players from the most popular caramel card sets like E93, E95, etc.)<br /><br />I think a more fair assessment would be to say that pre-war cards in general have enjoyed a very nice run-up in market value over the past few years, and that caramel cards are at or near the top of the group in terms of which sets have received the most benefit. However, a significant factor in that is the fact that caramels were very much under-appreciated and under-valued for years, and that is no longer the case (and probably never will be again).

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12-23-2005, 01:43 AM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I think that the couple of cards you mentioned are anomolies in general. The E107 set is unique because its year of issue makes it the rookie card for several HOFs. Combine that with the fact that these cards are super scarce and you have the makings of some crazy prices. But I think that Davis price has more to do with HOF rookie craziness than caramel craziness. And I agree that that was a lot to pay for a low grade E91 Wagner. The E91 set with its generic images does not do much for me. When I think about caramels, I am thinking mostly about the great colorful sets like E90-1, E92, E93, E94, E95, E96, E97, E98, etc. These are the classic caramel sets to me and these have been undervalued for a long time.<br />JimB

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12-23-2005, 08:06 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>In my defense...<br /><br />the Davis card is a VERY VERY HIGH-GRADE card from a set that has VERY VERY FEW cards in anything better than SGC 20 or 30.<br /><br />Yes, it is also a ROOKIE to a lot of people... and it is also one of only a handful of his E107 cards to still exist in ANY condition.<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.lewisbaseballcards.com/classes/baseBallCard/images/1216Lg.jpg"><br /><br /><br />At least ONE other person agreed with me... or else the bidding would have been a lot lower!<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Davis may be a "lesser known" Hall of Famer... but his stats show that he was definitely one of the best players in his era.

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12-23-2005, 10:38 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The first thing I'd do is track down the rare one-of cards that I need for my player set, like the J=K Candy candy of Bedient and the rare t207s. Otherwise, I'd just be buying a lot of cards. I'd imagine that I could actually finish out my player set with $100k if I can get my hands on the rare cards.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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12-23-2005, 03:53 PM
Posted By: <b>Steve Dawson</b><p>I'd buy a T206 Plank and a 1933 Goudey Lajoie. Then I'd use what's left on N28, N162 and N172 HOFers, particularly Kelly, Anson and Clarkson.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br />

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12-24-2005, 01:03 AM
Posted By: <b>Charlie O'Neal</b><p>My first couple of pick ups would have to be<br /><br />N28 Cap Anson<br />1914 CJ Ty Cobb<br />1914 CJ Joe Jackson<br />1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig<br /><br />The rest of the money would be used to buy up some vintage lots to flip until I had the T206 HOF set and the Southern Leaguers. All the cards that I bought would be graded 4 and under.