T206 Back Collecting

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Posted By: <b>Travis Anderson</b><p>Bought some rare back T206s (rare for me at least) from Lee Behrens the other day (Thanks Lee!!) and, after I received them, I decided to narrow my T206 collecting focus to see if I could get one of each back. However, I have a few questions.<br /><br />I remember from one of the T206 collection completion threads (Ted's I think) where 32 variations were mentioned. The T206 Museum, however, lists 40.<br /><br />-Is this something similar to shooting for the completion of the T206 set minus the big 3 or 4? In other words, are there really 40 variations but 8 of them are pretty much impossible to find?<br /><br />-It looks like T206 Museum lists the Ty Cobb back as #3/40 (3rd in scarcity order)...I know there was some discussion a couple weeks earlier regarding whether or not the Cobb backs should even be classified as a T206, so I guess that one is open to opinion?<br /><br />-The top 2 backs on the scarcity list are Old Mill (Southern League) Factory 649, District 1 Overprint and Double Overprint. Has anyone ever seen these? If so and these are considered the pinnacle of back scarcity, what is the upper range $$$-wise that I'm looking at if I intend to see this through to the end (i.e. #40 on list is Piedmont-Series350, Factory25, District2 --&gt; couple of bucks will get you one of these...what will the top dogs cost?)?<br /><br />-Anyone have any other advice regarding this type of T206 collecting?<br /><br />Thanks in advance,<br />Travis

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Travis<br /><br />There are 40 possible backs, I had noted at that time I had<br />32 of them. They are quite a challenge to collect. The two<br />Old Mill overprints are definitely the scarcest and there is<br />a picture of one on the "T206 Question (Mastronet)" Thread.<br /><br />Many of us do not consider the Ty Cobb back as part of the<br />T206 set. The Drum and Broad Leaf 460 backs are the toughest<br />and certainly go for big $$$$.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Many of us do consider the Ty Cobb back to be a legitmate T206 back as well. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>I would really be interested to see a vote on this to see what the board thinks.I have no doubt in my mind the Ty Cobb back isnt a t206 and i know others feel that way.Id like to see a thread once and for all to see what everyone thinks.Id rather it was in a thread form so it was one vote per person....if only i knew someone who could start threads,hmmm

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Posted By: <b>Bryan</b><p>Why it is that some consider the Cobb back a t206 and others don't? What is the reason behind this?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Bryan

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>John<br /><br />I welcome your Poll on the Ty Cobb back.<br /><br />However, I can predict its outcome...."dinosaurs" like me will vote....NO;<br />and, type and non-set collectors will more than likely vote..YES.<br /><br />Bryan<br /><br />If you were to see and touch a Ty Cobb (with a Ty Cobb back), and compare<br />it with any normal T206 card, you instantly notice the difference on the front.<br />The front of the Ty Cobb back has a gloss which no T206 has ever had. It is<br />very similar to the fronts of the Coupon Cigarette cards. Another factor, as<br />subtle as it is, is the back advertises Factory 33. This Factory # is unique to<br />this card. I have seen a lot of T206's and I have 90% of all the possible<br /> backs (40) and I have never seen this Factory # on any T206 card.<br /><br />T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Besides what Ted pointed out,the fact the Cobb back only comes with one front(Cobb red portrait) on all of them and i havent seen a sheet of t206s with just one player yet.Im willing to bet they werent even made in the time frame t206s were produced<br />,probably a few years later,like the coupon backs.

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Posted By: <b>Bryan</b><p>Thanks for the info Ted. Much appreciated.<br /><br />Bryan

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>The shallack front on MOST (but not all Ty Cobb backs) is an important difference from other T206s, but that seems to me to be the only significant issue. Like all the "T206" brands, Ty Cobb brand was part of the American Tobacco Company. Since to my knowledge most, if not all, Ty Cobb back cards were found in Georgia, the fact that it is "factory 33" (a unique factory compared with other T206s) seems to make sense, and does not indicate some criteria that ought to immediately eliminate the back from the T206 set. And the fact that it only appears on Ty Cobb cards (red portrait) also makes sense given that it was probably a special promotional brand with distribution limited to Georgia (Cobb's home state). <br /><br />I think if we try to imagine ourselves as smokers in 1909-1911 and we like to collect these cards that are inserted in packs of cigarettes issued by brands owned by the American Tobacco Company, then we would assume (correctly) that the Ty Cobb brand has those cards too. The bonus with those was that you were sure to get a Ty Cobb card.<br /><br />As Bill Heitman mentioned in a thread about a month ago, the T-206 designation is somewhat arbitrary to begin with. It was the ACC designation, not the American Tobacco Company designation. The writers of the ACC could have just as easily designated 16 different sets (or more) out of what we call T206s today. <br /><br />If the Cobb back cards were printed at a different factory in Georgia, with the identical front and somebody there decided to shallack the front to make it a little nicer does not, on its own, isolate it from the larger T206 set as we know it from the American Card Catalogue.<br /><br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I still think they are most closely related to T213's too....

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>"However, I can predict its outcome...."dinosaurs" like me will vote....NO;<br />and, type and non-set collectors will more than likely vote..YES."<br /><br />I don't know if I am a "dinasour" but I have been collecting T206s for 25 years. I am a T206 set collector (I have a complete set and an addition 50 or duplicates with rarer backs and other anomolies) and I am not a type collector. So I guess this prediction is wrong in my case since I believe the back to be a legitimate part of the set. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> This is an interesting discussion that seems to come up on a regular basis.<br />JimB<br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Ted,<br /> As an "Ole Time" T206 back collector(30 years)I would vote No,I don't think it belongs in the set. I agree that it is much closer to the T213's in appearence, but that it was probably a seperate promotional piece that wasn't widely distributed. I believe there are 13-14 known Cobb backs, and some, but certainly not all were found in GA. I know of 5 found not far from Cobb's hometown of Royston, but there have also been copies found in NC and Kentucky.<br /> I don't think the question will ever be answered, but no matter what set it belongs too, I want one....<br /><br />Be well Brian <br /> <br />