Who are the Three Most Knowledgeable Vintage Baseball Card Guys [Archive]

Archive

11-08-2005, 09:37 AM

Posted By: Jim CrandellOkay--asking people to rank the three most knowledgeable people about pre-war baseball cards in the hobby. This is overall knowledge, not limited to a couple of sets. This obviously also has nothing to do with the value of their collection and may be a dealer, a collector or neither.

Archive

11-08-2005, 09:42 AM

Posted By: WesleyMacrae, Lipset, Zach Rice

Archive

11-08-2005, 09:46 AM

Posted By: Wesley<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I was just joking about Zach. He knows his stuff and might be there in twenty years. Probably add Sloate to that list.

Archive

11-08-2005, 09:56 AM

Posted By: Marc S.Tough question, Jim. There are a few generalists - but there are absolutely some "experts" in different themes of the era [type cards, 19th century, PCL, Zeenuts, etc.] The first few that come to my mind are: Keith Olbermann Lew Lipset Larry Fritsch [maybe - don't know enough] Barry Sloate Leon Luckey Mark McRae Jay Miller And there are many more who I would consider 'experts' on certain sets

Archive

11-08-2005, 09:57 AM

Posted By: Trevor HockingThis is a good question. I would say Keith Olberman Lew Lipset Mark Macrae But so many others out there: Kevin Struss Larry Fritsch Barry Sloate So many great specialest too: Jay Miller - Old Judges (Who needs to call me <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> ) David Rudd - Photos Art M - T206's

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:07 AM

Posted By: JimBI would say the Terry Knouse should be up there on 19th century stuff. JimB

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:13 AM

Posted By: Jim ManosScott Brockelman(spelling??)should be up there and Dan Mckee is dump like a fox also.

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:37 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI appreciate my name being included in this list but noone has yet mentioned Rob Lifson and I would put Rob's knowledge up with anybody in this hobby. My expertise is really in other areas- rare baseball books, pre-1880's material, early baseball history, etc. But I guess I'm a card guy, too. I would probably put Mark Macrae and Lew up there also. And Leon isn't exactly chopped liver.

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:40 AM

Posted By: Bruce BabcockRob Lifson, Lipset, Mastro

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:52 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThe most knowledgeable are the ones who can look at any obscure issue and know what it is. I still have to look things up. That's the difference between the top group and the next tier. I'm a second tier kind of guy.

Archive

11-08-2005, 11:10 AM

Posted By: J Levinefor vintage cards... Lipset...been bugging Lew with questions for years (I remember when I was like 15 my mother wanted to know why I called new york 6 times in five days--all to Lew and about Phillies oddball cards) Bob Lemke...yes, he has the collecting world at his fingertips but he really does seem to know a bunch about everything and can find things a little quicker or point me in the right direction. Rob Lifson...guy knew more by the age of 18 than I do now. Met him years ago at the National and was impressed with his energy and knowledge. For specific categories... PCL is Macrae...Mark has a wide knowledge of other areas of collecting but if it is PCL, his brain is the one I go to first. 19th Century stuff is Terry Knouse and family. If they are not around, I wait. Exhibit and Boxing is Adam W. He really did write the book! T205 is myself. Gotta call my own number once in awhile. The good thing about this board is that nearly every one here has one true passion for at least one kind of card or one specific set. I almost always find the answers when I need them. Joshua

Archive

11-08-2005, 11:17 AM

Posted By: ChadRyan Christoff is the man for Latin American issues and Gary Engels and Rob (from Rob's Japanese Cards Site) for Japanese material. I really think in the not too distant future, these guys are going to be thought of as real pioneers of the hobby. I mean, come on, there aren't any American issues in the shape of airplanes! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> --Chad

Archive

11-08-2005, 11:41 AM

Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)Off the top of my head, I think that these guys have the most overall knowledge: 1. Bill Mastro 2. Lew Lipset 3. Mark Macrae 4. Rob Lifson 5. Kevin Struss There are many others who know more about a specific area, but I would think that this group could answer virtually any question that one had.

Archive

11-08-2005, 11:54 AM

Posted By: AlanNeil Keller, Peter Horvath, Martin Abromowitz & Jamie Wasserman for Jewish players.

Archive

11-08-2005, 12:21 PM

Posted By: zachLOL Wes. I nominate Trevor Hocking, Mark Macrae, Jay Miller, Lew Lipset, Barry Sloate, and Rob Lifson.

Archive

11-08-2005, 12:49 PM

Posted By: barry arnoldBarry Sloate (top drawer and has humility) Moderator Leon (VBC primus inter pares) Lipset (walking encyclopedia) barry

Archive

11-08-2005, 03:47 PM

Posted By: tbobThere are an awful lot of guys who post on this board whose names haven't been mentioned who are as knowledgeable as any name mentioned. (And most are friendlier too)<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive

11-08-2005, 03:52 PM

Posted By: Brian GoldnerMy Top Three, in no particular order: Lew Lipset Bill Mastro Rob Lifson Honorable Mention: Larry Fritsch Mark Macrae Barry Sloate Keith Olbermann Scott Brockelman Leon Luckey Jay Miller Pete Calderon Greg Bussineau Bill Heitman (glaring omission so far) Bob Marquette Hal Lewis Jim Clarke Terry Knouse Bruce Babcock and others *I'm certain that there are a few, that i failed to mention, that are also deserving of recognition.

Archive

11-08-2005, 04:48 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar Pretty dumb post, if I do say so myself, Julie!!! So I changed it...

Archive

11-08-2005, 05:04 PM

Posted By: SteveAdam J Moraine <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive

11-08-2005, 05:11 PM

Posted By: AnsonWow, why don't you just put the two guys from the Shop at Home show on there. sheesh I would have to agree with the extended list, but there are a lot of other less high-profile people that are just as educated. For whatever reason, they don't chose to make themselves as well known. No, Mr Mint isn't one of them. edited for poor spelling

Archive

11-08-2005, 05:31 PM

Posted By: Brian GoldnerMy mistake Anson. When i originally answered the question, i missed the "three". Thus, i listed a group of people who i believe are among the most knowledgable, while trying to avoid the omission of someone deserving of mention. With regard to your final point, i agree. There are other people out there, who are not high profile, but also worthy of recognition.

Archive

11-08-2005, 05:44 PM

Posted By: SteveOh yes, i forgot them, kenny goldin and donny west too. Once in a while a lil levity is good for the heart.............. Sorry if I offended anyone with a lil humour. Regards, Steve

Archive

11-08-2005, 05:50 PM

Posted By: bigfishNobody has mentioned that 70's dude from the home shopping network that used to scream into the mic. He seemed to know his stuff no?

Archive

11-08-2005, 07:35 PM

Posted By: RhysWhile some of the names on here I agree with, many of the names on here are just the popular members of this board or the current rich collectors. Many of the names mentioned on these lists are guys who have not even been collecting for 5-10 years and are totally ignoring the collectors who probably have more knowledge than anyone out there like Dick Egan etc. Many of the people who have most of the knowledge do not even go on this forum or are too old to use computers. Having lots and lots of money does not make you one of the more knowledgable collectors. This will eliminate about 1/3 the names people have mentioned so far. Having one of the biggest collections or being prominant on this board does not make you one of the more knowledgable either. This should eliminate the majority of the other names thrown around. The three most knowledgable in my opinion are: Lew Lipsett Rob Lifson or Bill Mastro (take your pick) Mark Macrae or the McKee duo (tie) This post is not meant to offend anyone, but this board gets so ethnocentric at times it is amazing. Being a specialist on one set, having lots of money, or having your name everywhere on this website does not make someone one of the three most knowledgable collectors. It would have been interesting if this question was asked 5 years ago on the Full Count forum because most of the names would have been different. Rhys

Archive

11-08-2005, 07:45 PM

Posted By: joe maplesMy picks known to the hobby would be: Lipset Mastro Lifson, but I personally know a couple of long time collectors that know quite a bit about this subject, but they don't get that involved like the ones listed in this thread. Believe it or not there are some great unknown collections still out there. Joe

Archive

11-08-2005, 07:46 PM

Posted By: AnsonRhys, That's what I was trying to convey but sometimes my brain just runs out of gas.

Archive

11-08-2005, 08:20 PM

Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}Larry Fritsch knows a lot about reprints and sells a lot of them. I have seen his latest cataolg and it is full of reprints. Rob

Archive

11-08-2005, 08:24 PM

Posted By: Trevor HockingHi Rhys, I think there are some of the board members on here who are very underestimated for there new found and some long time knowledge. I think when we think of who is most knowledgeable to us personally it really has to do with who we are in contact with. For instance, If I where to need the latest knowledge on Colgans I would probably give you an e-mail because guys like Fritsch and the old-time guys are done and really don't want to give out there old information, but on the other hand a person like yourself who is actively collecting the set and might have some new data would be the best and therefor most knowledgeable because you are currently researching that issues. so I have to disagree on the point that our members are unqualified as a lot of the new data and sets have been found by many of our board members. Yes if you asked 5 years ago who knows the most the list would be different just because the researchers and addicts weren't junkies yet. I don't mean to take away from the legends of our hobby but so much has been found in the last 5 years some of the greats would frankly be lost. Just my thoughts By the way I would put Kevin Struss up there with the best as he is still active and is an amazing connection between the old on new collectors.

Archive

11-08-2005, 08:57 PM

Posted By: Cobby33What about TJ Schwartz?

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:16 PM

Posted By: RhysTrevor, I agree with you about this board. Collectively the knowledge here is amazing. I think the problem is that too many people see a name floating around on this board and think that just because a guy has tons of money or a lot of knowledge on a particular set he has the same knowledge on every set. I do not want to mention names because I do not want to offend anybody but I will say a few. If I wanted knowledge on caramel issues I would probably go to Bob Marquette first, his knowledge of E cards is amazing, but I would probably not go to him with an Old Judge question. For that I would probably go to Jay Miller, but I probably would not go to Jay with a question about pre WW1 Post Card issues, etc. Collectively, this board has a huge base of knowledge on the entire hobby and I am not discounting that at all. All I am saying is that there are names being thrown around on the board of people with HUGE collections and HUGE pocketbooks that I talk to and while they are passionate about the hobby, they actually know very little when the entire hobby is looked at and not just their niche within it. Also, my brother is the one collecting Colgan's Chips. His name is Rhett. We are 15 months apart and both have been collecting since 1986 and most people in the hobby think we are the same person. We both post on this forum as well which gets people confused too. Rhys

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:32 PM

Posted By: Trevor HockingLOL Sorry about the name mix up I am known for doing that. I see your points. This board is the best place to get a vintage card question answered. I just wish all the bickering would stop and some of the greats would post again. I know they are lurking. I would like to say that there has been some really good card topics lately too. I will be posting more now, I just hope more will follow. I also wish more of our regular posters would come by for a chat it's fun there is a lot of good card talk there. Don't be afraid to jump right in when you get there even with a completely off topic question. Anyways this site has a lot more good sides than bad thats why I'm still sticking around. Trevor Hocking

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:39 PM

Posted By: jay behrensI'd have to go with 4 names Macrae Lifson Fritsch (even though I can't stand the guy) Lipset To me, those are the heavy hitters with broad knowledge of everything. After that, you have all the specialists. Macrae and Lifson are still young, but who steps up and fills the void when Lipset, Fritsch and other old-time dealer/collectors are gone? Jay I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:40 PM

Posted By: kimithefinHello People, So here is a question. Do you think knowledge is somehow related to financial status? By this I mean, would it not seem probable that those with the most knowledge are more than likely going to be those who have handled the cards the most? The more money you have, the more likely you are going to have that opportunity. Anyone can read up, but only the lucky can handle the massive amounts of cards I think would result in being considered the elite of the hobby. This is not to say that because someone handles a lot of material that they are an expert. kimithefin

Archive

11-08-2005, 10:50 PM

Posted By: jay behrensall the people that are on the most knowledgable list are long time hobbiest that were collecting and dealing before there was serious money invovlved. Macrae, Lifson, Fritsch, Mastro, Lipset and other were involved in the hobby in the 70s when you had to be able to hunt things down. Money didn't get things to come to you like it does today. Jay I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

Archive

11-09-2005, 12:59 AM

Posted By: tbobRhys- thanks for the compliment on the E card knowledge and you are right, there are lots of people who know more about Old Judges than I do, but I am learning <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. That's the great thing about this board, the shared knowledge. Although some of the long, long time collectors have probably forgotten more than some of us know, this and the Full Count boards have really brought a lot of us up to speed on a lot of issues. Mark Macrae has shared a lot of information about Obaks and Zeenuts with me but some of the guys "in the trenches" like Brian Parker have really been invaluable in sharing their knowledge also. Tim Newcomb increased my knowledge of T207s more than I probably wanted <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> with his informative articles in which he painstakingly analyzed the possibilities of distribution of the various companies vis a vis the different backs. For all the griping about sniping posts and conflicting personalities of posters that we sometimes make, this board is a great way to learn about our great hobby, the cards, and often just as importantly, how not to get scammed, cheated, tricked or bamboozled in buying cards. Bob M.

Archive

11-09-2005, 01:10 AM

Posted By: Brian C. DanielsYou know quite a bit about M-116's as well. I have told you before you know more about cards than you think. You are the only guy I have ever known in cards that collects every single pre war set there is! This board really is like chinese food- there are different people you would go to for valueable information on specific set issues. Chinese food menus have 200 entries or so but only 1 or 2 of them is that house's specialty! We are all like that as my example of BM's collection displays.Lots of us have 200 sets in the works yet really know our stuff on only a few.

Archive

11-09-2005, 06:23 AM

Posted By: Marc S.Rhys: You might consider that some of the board members here might be under 30 years old - and we are basing our opinion of the little we know about collectors, etc. based upon being in the hobby for less than 10 years. I was asked for an opinion - which I happily provided. You are absolutely correct that there are a number of old-time hobbyists with vast collections and amazing amounts of knowledge. But, at the end of the day, if I've been lurking and learning for 5-7 years now, and I've never seen them publish a book, share any information, or somehow contribute to my knowledge of the hobby - then they don't make my list. I'm not suggesting everyone needs computers and needs to share their vast amount of knowledge - but I am suggesting that some of these very knowledgeable collectors may pass the ranks of the hobby one day only having been remembered by other knowledgeable collectors - and not by any new knowledge that they have individually contributed to the hobby as a whole.

Archive

11-09-2005, 07:05 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI think with the internet anyone can become an expert in a very short time. When I was coming up in the hobby in the early 1980's, we had the Beckett Price Guide and Lew's encyclopedias and little else. There is more information disseminated in a few weeks on this site than we could learn in a year.

Archive

11-09-2005, 07:12 AM

Posted By: john/z28jd Im not going to give any opinions about who knows the most but its interesting on my part to see some of the people mentioned most i dont talk to at all about cards and wouldnt go to for info.I made the mistake of trying to ask Lipset about info awhile ago and was brushed off rather rudely and got false information from him when i did.At the time i didnt know it was wrong but i learned it on my own and with help from other Old Judge collectors.I believe like someone else said that theres tons of people out there that dont make their presence known but might know just as much as any of these big guys,probably collectors who have been around awhile when you could pick up cards cheap and really get a feel of them and knowledge you could only learn hands on. This board collectively knows more than any one person could know so i say we call it Vinbacafo,and hope one day it will come to life and destroy all the collectors who refuse to take part in it and their collections will be distributed among regular posters. Id like Lifson,Mastro,Fritsch or Lipset to come to the board and publicly aknowledge their status among passionate collectors and thank us for our support.They can wear a big hat and robe like the pope if they want

Archive

11-09-2005, 07:17 AM

Posted By: barrysloateTruth is not everybody likes this site and some downright dislike it and don't even lurk, so don't expect those hobby gurus to chime in.

Archive

11-09-2005, 07:24 AM

Posted By: john/z28jdWell Barry,in truth only my first paragraph was serious and even that took alot out of me.I respect you much more because you do share info here and answer emails promptly and dont mind when i give you the wrong bidder number <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive

11-09-2005, 07:30 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI can accept pretty much anything, but the wrong bidder number- unforgiveable!!! Just kidding of course. I think I enjoy the comraderie of the board as I am a bit of a hermit and don't get to meet many collectors in person. I wish there was less fighting, but I'm always happy to share whatever I know. I used to be a teacher, so sharing information is a natural.

Archive

11-09-2005, 08:44 AM

Posted By: AlanWhy can't the "heavy hitters" of the hobby join this message board ? What are they afraid of ?

Archive

11-09-2005, 08:46 AM

Posted By: AnsonMacrae is on the board

Archive

11-09-2005, 09:56 AM

Posted By: BlackSoxFancould someone email me mcrae's info, or perhaps let him know i had some questions for him... thanks! Regards, Black Sox Fan - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <a href="http://www.blacksoxfan.com" target="new" border="0"><img src="http://www.blacksoxfan.com/images/art/sig.jpg"></a> <a href=mailto:shoelessjoe@blacksoxfan.com?subject=Ne t54>email me</a>

Archive

11-09-2005, 10:08 AM

Posted By: ElliotSomebody who hasn't been mentioned yet, but has a tremendous amount of knowledge is Brian Wentz. Just because he isn't universally liked doesn't mean that he shouldn't be included. Plus, he knows a lot about hockey cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive

11-09-2005, 11:15 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisAlan Many of the "heavy hitters' you are eluding to, are on this Forum. But,a lot of them prefer to remain silent; however, they have at appropriate instances posted.

Archive

11-09-2005, 12:37 PM

Posted By: Bruce BabcockThey say any publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your name right, but I am certainly not an expert in any way, shape or form. Like a lot of people, I collected as kid for a few years and then moved on. When I was about 30, I read a couple of newspaper articles about how card collecting was beginning to take off, and that there was even a card, the T206 Wagner, worth $25,000. So I got back into the hobby. Over a 25 year period (I paid $110 for my red portrait T206 Cobb) I've slowly put together a pretty nice collection, including some rare type cards and some tough but small sets. I've been burned a few times and got lucky a few times. I would say the most useful thing I've learned is that when you get a chance to acquire a nice piece that you've never seen before, grab it because you may never see it again. To me the experts are the guys who have seen thousands and thousands of cards of the popular vintage issues and dozens of examples of some of the truly rare stuff. I'm not one of those guys. But I've certainly learned a lot from the folks on this board. <img src="http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/.Pictures/20th%20Tobacco/T206%20Red%20Cobb.JPG">

Archive

11-09-2005, 08:35 PM

Posted By: FYSLipset Mastro Lemke

Archive

11-10-2005, 03:23 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellSorry--everything with me has to be a contest: If you mentioned more than 3, each person got a half vote--if 3 or less a whole vote. Everybodies vote counts equal and I didn't vote(because I don't know). 1.Lipset 13 2.Lifson 8 3.Macrae 6 1/2 4.Mastro 5 5.Sloate 3 RU(1 1/2 or 2 pts) Lemke Moderator Leon McKee Olberman Voting is still open.

Archive

11-10-2005, 04:04 AM

Posted By: jasonLifson Sloate Lemke

Archive

11-10-2005, 05:47 AM

Posted By: Jason DuncanMy pick is: Brian Wentz. He seems universally knowledgeable in most prewar and so much post war vintage including regional issues etc.

Archive

11-10-2005, 04:26 PM

Posted By: LyleJOE ORLANDO ! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive

11-10-2005, 04:33 PM

Posted By: Brian C DanielsThe book!

Archive

11-10-2005, 05:22 PM

Posted By: Dan Kotelesme not like Chinese food. Yuckky- missing dogs and cats..... rarr and mew, me no likey. three that come to mind- Terry Knouse- David Bryan- Lew Lip. Many like tbob has said have great knowledge, Pete .Cal on caramels, Scott Brockleman Ramlys and many sorts....list can keep going.

Archive

11-10-2005, 06:05 PM

Posted By: andy beckermost knowledgeable and most helpful are two different thing. john has a point. the most helpful people are on this board....leon really stands out. others too. i have, many times, just emailed a person....who doesn't know me from beens. greg ecklund was my last victim <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ....btw, thanks again greg for your help! as for three names...lew, rob lifson, and bill mastro. best advice goes to bruce.... "I would say the most useful thing I've learned is that when you get a chance to acquire a nice piece that you've never seen before, grab it because you may never see it again."

Archive

11-10-2005, 06:53 PM

Posted By: john/z28jdI'll second that advice by Bruce and back it up with an example. I passed on an old judge card(a specific pose) at the 2003 National and i havent found that card since and its bugged me to this day.The reason i passed was because i was leaving the show and had to spend all my money(like i always do,so stupid!) and i couldnt find another card to match up with that card(he was asking $240) to equal the $400 i had to spend so i bought a card for $400 exactly.Now the card i bought was one i wanted but ive also seen it for sale 5 times since then so it wasnt exactly tough in an old judge sense. Ive learned since then and now know cards that i wont pass on for the right price,but it was a tough way to learn.Now id pay 5x the original asking price if i could find that specific card Sorry to take it off subject but its a great bit of info to know

Archive

11-10-2005, 08:29 PM

Posted By: Brian C DanielsI know more about Tango Brand Egg cards than you do! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive

11-10-2005, 09:34 PM

Posted By: Dan Koteleshaving only 1100 of them , you dog. Aint mad at ya for that one though.

Archive

11-15-2005, 05:16 PM

Posted By: Hal LewisI went through and tried to compile a list (in no particular order) of ALL the people who received at least an "Honorable Mention": 1.Lew Lipset 2.Barry Sloate 3.Keith Olbermann 4.Larry Fritsch 5.Leon Luckey 6.Mark MacRae 7.Jay Miller 8.Kevin Struss 9.Terry Knouse 10.Dan McKee 11.Scott Brockelman 12.Rob Lifson 13.Bill Mastro 14.Bill Heitman 15.Bob Lemke 16.Trevor Hocking 17.Jim Clarke 18.Bruce Babcock 19.Corey Shanus 20.Richard Masson 21.Hal Lewis 22.Bob Marquette 23.Pete Calderon 24.Andy Baran 25.Greg Bussineau 26.Dick Egan 27.T.J. Schwartz 28.Brian Wentz 29.David Bryan 30.Dave Levin

Archive

11-15-2005, 05:17 PM

Posted By: barrysloateFor three people that's a lot of people. At least I made the cut. Hal, do we have a contest winner?

Archive

11-15-2005, 06:23 PM

Posted By: Brian H (misunderestimated) Lipset Lemke Beckett Orlando Hager & Purdy (I just like to put them on the same line) (These aren't my votes) I'll vote for the following (I'm only considering people of whom I have first hand knowledge of their knowledge; no one based purely on reputation or legend only people I've spoken to or read something by): In no particular order: Lipset Lemke Brockelman (Sp ?) Honorable mention: Sloate Macrae B. Wentz Masson Miller Barron Fritsch