O/T: Selling off Pop's Collection [Archive]

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11-08-2005, 01:49 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback(Not my pop) And you complained about baseball card prices? My retired neighbor (of normal means and background) had regularly told me about a family in the the Baltimore neighbrhood he grew up in and who's kids he played with. He said the family dad collected paintings. Since the dad bought a lot of them soon after they were painted many years ago, he got them relatively cheap ("The paint was still wet," as my neighbor says). The father died, so the family has consigned a number of the family paintings to Christies. My neighbor remembers seeing some of the paintings in person when he was a kid. Below is one of the paintings. In particular, notice the estimated price. They are also selling off paintings by Picasso, Jackson Pollack, Joan Miro, etc, and the below painting is not the most expensive in the lot. <a href="http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LOTDETAIL.ASP?sid=&intObjectID=4597398" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LOTDETAIL.ASP?sid=&intObjectID=4597398</a>

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11-08-2005, 02:09 PM

Posted By: Kevin CummingsYeah, but does he have a 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth? <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-08-2005, 02:11 PM

Posted By: pete ullmanwow...quite cool!!!!!

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11-08-2005, 02:22 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackWith that painting, they might my collection for packaging.

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11-08-2005, 02:25 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Doesn't that left border look a little trimmed to anyone else? No wonder they didn't get it slabbed, it might only get put in an AUTH holder, then it might only be worth $3.5M.........

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11-08-2005, 02:29 PM

Posted By: JoeDo you see the ghost image on the face? This could be the rare error painting.

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11-08-2005, 02:52 PM

Posted By: Hal LewisHoly Cow! There are 4 of them for sale... and one of them is TWICE the size of the $6 million one!! It doesn't even HAVE a price... you have to call and request an estimate!! $10 million? I wish I had lived next to Mark Rothko when I was growing up!!!

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11-08-2005, 02:57 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Hal, I thought I heard somewhere that Rothko was actually the name Ruth painted under... perhaps that explains the prices of these things...

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11-08-2005, 03:34 PM

Posted By: David VarghaNow I don't feel so bad about wasting my money on cardboard pictures of baseball players. That painting is a piece of crap! My daughter painted similar to that in her 3-4 year old "period". Give me a freaking break!! DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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11-08-2005, 03:39 PM

Posted By: zach"Piece of Crap" wow that shows that you sure know your art. It maybe not what you enjoy or like but to many it is. Sometimes its not about the painting but who painted it, what it symbolizes etc. Your statement "That is a piece of crap" is the most ignorant thing I have heard today. You can say you dont like a piece and dont understand its value but until you major in art and know more than just the painting its self, the background of the work and how it was done please refrain from calling something a piece of crap.

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11-08-2005, 03:45 PM

Posted By: tbobIf someone had offered me that painting for one of my E94 Cobbs I would have just laughed at them. Beauty definitely is in the eye of the beholder. We have a painting in our house by a French impressonist painter that we paid $6000 for and I wouldn't trade it for this one, I don't care if that one goes for $40 million...

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11-08-2005, 03:47 PM

Posted By: zachI agree with that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the statement that this such painting is just a piece of crap is just ignorant.

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11-08-2005, 03:50 PM

Posted By: CatDavid: I hope are calling it crap, because Sh_t gets replaced with asterisks on this site. Really, you are being to gentle. In fact, before you posted, I wanted to clarify that I am sure I painted this in Kindergarten and somehow it got mixed in with the artists stuff. Where's my commission? He calls it "Blue over Red" so it doesn't appear that he is even pretending it has some deep rooted meaning.

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11-08-2005, 03:53 PM

Posted By: CatZach: I can probably "paint" you something similar. I have two highlighters on my desk. I'll call it "yellow over orange." Can we work out a price? Can I FAX you the finished product?

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11-08-2005, 03:55 PM

Posted By: zachAre you trying to insult me ? If so its not working. BTW how do you plan to paint with highlighters ? You can draw with them but I doubt you can paint with them.

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11-08-2005, 04:08 PM

Posted By: AnsonI'm submitting this piece from "The Ainsley Collection", entitled "Outside the lines." Preauction estimate of $3,500,000 - $5,000,000 <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1131494823.JPG">

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11-08-2005, 04:17 PM

Posted By: Cat"Outside the Lines" has such meaningful symbolism. Where it says red it is actually green. Where it says green it is actually brown. This representation of our society of anarchy and the world of conflict is a satirical depiction of the lives we lead. This is art.

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11-08-2005, 04:24 PM

Posted By: zachAccording to you it is. I am not saying you can't say what you want and you can have your own opinion. I agree that that is great symbolism but I believe both pieces are art. Call it what you want and think what you want and that is what is great about hobbies, you can make up your own rules. But even after making up your own rules calling something a piece of crap is still ignorant. Lets get back to talking baseball, this is a baseball card board.

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11-08-2005, 04:36 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognarand that ain't bad...

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11-08-2005, 04:46 PM

Posted By: CatZach: I wasn't trying to insult you, but I do believe when you refer to other opinions as being "ignorant" that is insulting and not in the nicest spirit of the board. So when you do that, you should expect to get some attitude thrown back at you. I'm new on this board, but I am not a new thinker. To think that "Red over Blue" and its auction price tag is a bit laughable is not an "ignorant" opinion. It's a tasteful opinion. Although it is probably, by some, seen as having more beauty than "Outside the Lines," I would not hesitate to have "Outside the Lines" on my refridgerator while on the other hand I wouldn't of purchased "Red over Blue" at a garage sale had I seen it for sale for say... oh... $12.

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11-08-2005, 04:56 PM

Posted By: zachIgnorant means a person who is lacking knowledge on a subject. What is harsh about that ? Nothing imo. I think calling something crap before knowing anything about it besides its appearance through a picture on a website is very ignorant. I didn't mean to sound harsh but as an artist myself when someone calls a piece of art crapy that they no nothing about it really offends me.

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11-08-2005, 05:15 PM

Posted By: cmokingHere is my father's artwork: <a href="http://www.cjyao.org/EnVer/Artbooks.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.cjyao.org/EnVer/Artbooks.htm</a> Two very different forms. Only click on the site if you enjoy looking at art though!

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11-08-2005, 05:28 PM

Posted By: zachWow. I love the way he works with reflections like that off of city scenes and buildings. VERY cool art work !

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11-08-2005, 05:41 PM

Posted By: David VarghaI liken my assessment of "crap" to what the Supreme Court said about pornography -- I can't define "crap", but I sure know it when I see it. BTW -- my evaluation was intended to upset the apple cart of those who are so high-browed that they think that three bands of color makes some deep, meaningful statement about something or other. As to calling me ignorant or whatever, those who know me know I don't really care if people call me names. It's just an Internet chatboard about pieces of cardboard (and now canvas). DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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11-08-2005, 05:46 PM

Posted By: zachI didnt do it to call you a name. I said what you said was ignorant because imo it was a harsh judgement on a piece of work without knowledge of it.

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11-08-2005, 05:47 PM

Posted By: David McDonald<a href="http://www.network54.com/Realm/ArtPOS/D4597398a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/ArtPOS/D4597398a.jpg"></a> OVER-RATED EXPENSIVE CRAP <a href="http://www.network54.com/Realm/ArtPOS/t3spe.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/ArtPOS/t3spe.jpg"></a> BEAUTIFUL ART

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11-08-2005, 05:49 PM

Posted By: zachI'm not going to get into this but everyone has their opinions and im sure the art world is thinking the same thing...who would pay that much for a little guy on a piece of cardboard.

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11-08-2005, 06:45 PM

Posted By: Cobby33Not taking any sides--but-- Did anyone see that special on 20/20 or one of those "investigative" kind of shows where they displayed a bunch of "paintings" by grade-schoolers in a gallery and invited a bunch of art snobs? It was awesome--they were so complimentary of the "art," thinking they were done by some "legitimate" artisits. It was good for a few laughs...

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11-08-2005, 07:01 PM

Posted By: David VarghaMy point exactly . . . DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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11-08-2005, 07:05 PM

Posted By: zachI saw that too and that didnt come off as the point I was hearing. In that show im sure the paintings weren't called "crap" even by the art gurus. Have your opnions on what you like and what you dislike but before you call something such a harsh word as crap make sure to have some education on the piece before you classify it.

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11-08-2005, 07:09 PM

Posted By: AnsonActually, the painting looks a lot like a positive home pregnancy test.

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11-08-2005, 07:19 PM

Posted By: Jay MillerCmoking--Your dad's work is fantastic. Are any of the pieces on display in the New York area?

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11-08-2005, 07:24 PM

Posted By: Damian looks like a blind folded Beaker from the muppets to me.

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11-08-2005, 07:25 PM

Posted By: Josh K.King - your father's artwork is very nice. I saw a number of pieces I wouldnt mind hanging in my house (though probably not for the price I'd have to pay <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> )

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11-08-2005, 07:51 PM

Posted By: cmokingThe originals all sold shortly after he painted them, with the exception of one that my mom has kept. Other than the one my mom has, I don't know where any of the originals are currently (I suspect almost all are in private collections), and don't have any idea about market value (I know very little about art other than my father's work). The prints were limited to about 500 each, and my family has a few left, but not many. I still remember how my dad would trade some of his work as barter for services with other people. I guess that's what artists can do. One time he took me to a Japanese restaurant that his friend owned, and he pointed to his painting on the wall. He then told me that the painting was in barter for 30 free meals at the restaurant. He told me he whipped up the painting in a few minutes after he struck the deal with the owner. What a life! I'm glad I could show the site and some people enjoyed it. Thanks!

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11-08-2005, 08:13 PM

Posted By: RC McKenzieIn the copy room of my office I have an Ellsworth Kelly lithograph from 1970 entitled, "Orange over Black". My brother saw it and started pointing and laughing (at me and the lithograph). He said "I could have made that" I smiled and said, "Yes, but you didn't. Ellsworth Kelly did"

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11-08-2005, 08:25 PM

Posted By: DJI bet somewhere out there in an art forum, someone is probably talking about how stupid old pieces of paper are. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and having been forced to go to many art exhibits, I must say that I don't get half of it. Just because a guy with one name painted an entire canvas in thirty different shades of red to me is simply not art. I have some art prints and it looks fine on my walls and makes the room. I'm looking at Miro's Tilled Field and Franz Kline's Giselle as we speak. DJ

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11-08-2005, 08:46 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Yao"ch" - that stuff is schmoking good art... that is beautiful work! That kind of art is what I can appreciate. "Red over blue" would have to grow on me... actually, I'm not sure if it could even do that but I tell you what, I'd sell the thing and have a Wagner and a lot of loose change for the rest of the set!

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11-08-2005, 08:58 PM

Posted By: DSGreenI know very little about art but I think that the reflection series done by cmoking's father is amazing.

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11-08-2005, 09:56 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackI collect art and wrote a book on fine art, and would consider several baseball cards to be little works of art. The T206 Ty Cobb Portrait Green, for example. If a collector says a T3 or a 1952 Bowman common card is a work of art, I won't argue the issue. What is art is a personal thing. One of my only requirements for art is that it has to be sublime-- which sort of translates to "greater than the sum on it's parts."

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11-08-2005, 10:11 PM

Posted By: CatIf we were to have a poll on the works depicted in this thread, I would vote like this: 1) Cmoking's father's paintings 2) Outside the Lines 3) Red over Blue To be clear, Red over Blue is a distant third.

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11-08-2005, 10:28 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackMy other rule for art is that it isn't defined by popular vote. I should point out I posted the Rothko painting simply due to the price tag. My neighbor who told me the story said he doesn't think much of Rothko either. He joked that the price tag shows that Rothko must have had a good agent. Cmoking, I beleive I saw one of your dad's reflection paintings in a mueseum in Wisconson.

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11-08-2005, 10:48 PM

Posted By: jay behrensZach, I know and understand art a bit and still doesn't stop me from calling paintings/art I don't like "crap". Personally, I hope my buddy becomes a fomous artist, then I get rich off of a few pieces I have of his. Here is the artist and his cat. Yes, did the tats on the cat. <img src="http://www.attic2cash.net/cards/rotnhell.jpg"> <img src="http://www.attic2cash.net/rotscat.jpg"> Jay I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

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11-08-2005, 11:39 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-09-2005, 12:52 AM

Posted By: Brian C. Danielsthat Joan Miro was a famous Spanish cartoonist of which his cartoons were as famous as The Flintsones and that is partially why his art is teir one! Come on guys even Hannah and Barbera's autographs alone are worth some real coin~

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11-09-2005, 06:20 AM

Posted By: SteveCsmoking I am impressed! Steve

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11-09-2005, 06:37 AM

Posted By: Hal LewisSO... HOW MUCH DID IT SELL FOR??????? Let us know.

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11-09-2005, 07:53 AM

Posted By: joe brennan I was an art dealer in the 1990's and sold for many artists. Some studied under the great European Masters. True art is in the eye of the beholder, but artists that can make people come to life on canvas are the true masters. I still have many originals that I purchased because I liked them, (sounds very familiar for this site). One American artist that will always be my favorite and will forever be foreshadowed by Norman Rockwell as the greatist American Artist is Maxfield Parrish. His originals are way out of my price range, but his original prints from the 20's are still affordable. Check him out if you get the chance. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1131551597.JPG"> A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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11-09-2005, 08:01 AM

Posted By: barrysloateOne of Rothko's paintings sold at Christie's last night for $22.4 million. I don't think it was the same one as David cited. I guess he's more popular than Cracker Jacks.

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11-09-2005, 08:16 AM

Posted By: Hal LewisGOOD LORD! This must have been the one that I mentioned earlier that was TWICE AS BIG as the one he cited. My "joking" estimate was $10 million... so I only missed by a dozen million!!

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11-09-2005, 08:28 AM

Posted By: cmokingif they were into baseball cards, we'd all be shut out.

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11-09-2005, 08:37 AM

Posted By: Daniel BrettaCmoking your dad was a fantastic artist. I love the paintings with the Coca Cola signs in them.

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11-09-2005, 09:30 AM

Posted By: RhysZach, If you have to have a degree in Art to formulate a non-ignorant opinion of whether or not you like a piece of art, than the point of creating anything at all is completely worthless. It would be like creating a CD but only allowing people with music degrees to critique or buy it. Art is SUPPOSED to be critiqued by anyone and everyone. People with degrees might have more insight into why things are done certain ways or whatever, but it does not make the layman who looks at a piece and formulates an opinion ignorant. When I was in law school we read a case about a Klimmt painting and I discovered that I HATE his art. To me it totally sucks and I wouldn't even call it crap, its crap that has been eaten by a dog a re-crapped. This girl sitting next to me ended up buying a Klimmt book and buying a print of his work because she liked it. That is the point, some like it and some do not. I think the artists themselves would shutter to hear anyone say you needed an art degree to formulate an opinion of their works.

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11-09-2005, 10:14 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI have to say I don't think I could get $22.4 million worth of enjoyment looking at that Rothko. It is rather drab and less than inspiring. It makes you wonder about the relative value of great things. It sold for roughly the entire value of the Halper collection, or the total of two Mastronet auctions, or for my money a mansion in the Hamptons and a pristine brownstone in my Brooklyn neighborhood (with some change left over). Or you could have this rather dull painting. Can anyone explain this one? Is it simply that the person who bought it already had all those other things but he didn't yet have one of these things?

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11-09-2005, 10:47 AM

Posted By: identify7Sometimes it is time to buy a big diamond. Eventhough it will never leave the secure place where you house it. How big a diamond should it be? Well, your brother-in-law bought one last year for 9 mil. And the husband of the girl at the country club just bought his wife ... Enter: Rothko. Nobody likes it. But at 22.4 mil. IT IS RIGHT.

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11-09-2005, 11:12 AM

Posted By: Darren J. DuetWell said Rhys. That sure is some expensive crap.

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11-09-2005, 12:06 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackDifferent people find different things profound, and there's nothing wrong with that. You look at a painting with your eyes, not someone else's. Enjoying art is a personal act, and there is no requirement that you even share with others what you like or think is dumb. Besides, what is desirable about everyone else finding profound the same stuff as you? Shouldn't you fear that you will some day you will read that Paulie Shore's favorite movie and painting are also yours?

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11-09-2005, 12:23 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)David, Lets make sure the bases are covered. Did you like Bennie Hill or did you just watch it because you were trying to do the "in thing" by enriching yourself with British culture? Don't forget about the "youth in Asia".....

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11-09-2005, 12:37 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback(I earlier edited my reference to watching Bennie Hill) I've learned all I know about British culture from their sit coms (including when to say "rotter" and how to chat up a dolly bird), and all about Canadian culture from Red Green (it appears Canadians men like duct tape and are scared of their wives). My dad met a German who he said, before he come to the US, he learned about American family interaction by watching "Married ... With Children." My dad wasn't certain if he was joking or not. Talking of like and disliking, it's fair to say about as many women like Red Green as like Bennie Hill. My aunt was not amused when she turned on her TV to watch her weekly BBC Woman Detective Mystery to find out it had been replaced by Red Green. After her second stroke, my late 80s year old grandmother's favorite tv show became Married With Children. There's a special bond formed when watching Married With Children with your 86 year old grandmother .... She also liked action shows, and one of her best old lady quotes was, "I hate the sex on TV, but I like the violence."

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11-09-2005, 12:54 PM

Posted By: jay behrensa recent drive-thru conversation at work. Customer: What is on your chicken club? Cashier: Lots of blood and feahters. Would you like one? Customer: Only if I get to hit you with it. Jay I'm incompetent at being incontenent.