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09-28-2005, 04:46 PM
Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Stephen Wong has created a wonderful treasure. His brand<br />new book," Smithsonia Collections- Inside The World's Finest<br />Collections "(Amazon $20 + shipping) is a PSA 10++<br /><br />I have been in the hobby for 30 years and have over 50 books<br />on baseball card and memoribilia collecting. After countless<br />articles and a few pretty good books (Kashmanian's book<br />and Baseball Archaeology were my personal favorites).<br /><br />This beautifully written, wonderfully illustrated book is for the<br />serious, intelligent collector. The focus is on the best of the best<br />-the rare- the noteworthy- and the historically important.<br /><br />No error cards or discussion about prices or collectors who<br />are too rich for the envious, outspoken and under-educated-<br />rather a great story on America's game and people who<br />have dedicated their time, energy and resources to buidling<br />truly world class collections<br /><br />And best of all, there are profiles with photos of the country's<br />great collectors---so you'll finally get to put a face to the<br />legend. <br /><br />Great job Stephen!!<br /><br /><br />Bruce

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09-29-2005, 11:09 AM
Posted By: <b>joe</b><p>Couldn't agree more, Bruce. I just picked this up yesterday and almost passed out at some of the stuff in these collections.<br />I had no idea that the "Live Oak Polka" was written about a Rochester team - the Live Oaks. Yet another Rochester-related item I'll never own, along with the Brunner's Bread team pics that I recently found about. Oh, well.<br />One interesting thing in the book: One of the collections had a unique advertising piecefor the OLd Judge cards, but the cards pictured on the ad were hand-drawn, like the A&G cards. The technology to put photos on the cards obviously existed at the time - they're on the cards, after all - so why put hand-drawn examples of cards on the ads when the actual cards are so much better looking? Woouldn't you want to advertise the actual cards people would find in their pack of smokes?<br />Either way it's a beautiful piece that no one would ever have seen without this book.

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09-29-2005, 11:20 AM
Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Bruce--I'm kinda confused. In your statement "...or collectors who are too rich for the envious, outspoken and under-educated..", which group, if any, are you trying to insult?

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09-30-2005, 05:38 PM
Posted By: <b>Michael Campbell</b><p>Yes, this is probably one of the best, if not the best book there is, that deals with memorablia. Deals with all aspects, games, posters, stadium relecs etc. etc.<br /><br />Every baseball fan and collector alike, should own this book.It's a must. Love that picture on page three. (3)<br /><br />Bruce which of your catagories do you think I fall in? Outspoken, or under educated?

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09-30-2005, 06:17 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Can I at least be one of the uneducated? Or maybe I am envious? Can I be both? Maybe since I want both we can throw in greedy too?

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09-30-2005, 06:39 PM
Posted By: <b>Mike Campbell</b><p>Touche Leon... Bruce's comment is the kind of thing that is uncalled for. Can't information be passed without snide comments, sniping, innuendos or insults? And when did being rich become a sin? Some people work their butts off to get rich. Not a crime in my book. Enough. I will quit now, and behave myself.<br /><br />Have a wonderful weekend Leon.

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09-30-2005, 08:19 PM
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic and I told them I didn't know what that meant and didn't care.......<br /><br />

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09-30-2005, 08:23 PM
Posted By: <b>zach</b><p>I just got it today, and let me say it is great ! Filled with wonderful pictures and info on the collections of many of the greatest collectors. Great read !

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09-30-2005, 08:49 PM
Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />I am astonished by the over reaction to my comments about "snide commentary."<br /><br />The point I was making is that so many people in the hobby are always commenting<br />about prices or expressing jealously about upscale collectors.<br /><br />I am all for capitalism and certainly believe that wealth is a wonderful attribute.<br />It is pleasure to see a book which focuses on historical significance rather than<br />the value of the cards.<br /><br />I certainly had no intention to insult the wealthiest collectors--- though I must say<br />it is delightful to read a book which is clear and articulate. And to read hobby<br />and baseball history without the grammatical errors that permeate so many of the <br />comments that I see in the hobby press and on the Board.<br /><br />I aI would appreciate it if those who express paranoia<br />study the words before attempting to articulate their point of view.<br /><br />Bruce<br /><br />

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09-30-2005, 09:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Young &amp; Rubicam</b><p>If you worked for a PR company, and you used your presentation:<br />You would have been FIRED on the spot.<br />And - you still wouldn't get it.<br /><br />But - go on with your story. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Joe P.

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10-01-2005, 01:46 AM
Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br />Joe, baby...<br /><br /><br />I don't think so..<br /><br />Remember this old proverb, <br /><br />"You are what you pretend to be, so be careful<br />what you pretend to be."<br /><br />

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10-01-2005, 02:09 AM
Posted By: <b>RC McKenzie</b><p>otherwise it's another book about baseball cards, not that there's anything wrong with that.<br /><br />I was only offended about the part where Bruce cited his appearence in the book.. I want to read about Captain Ahab, not Bruce Dorkhind and his baseball cards... ). JK

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10-01-2005, 02:13 AM
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>You know, usually I just sit back and watch the crude stuff roll but in this case I'm going to comment.<br /><br />Bruce, that was nice of you to edit that last post. I just happened to catch it's original content and I think your choice to edit the post was a good move. I can't believe you posted what you did the first time but I figure you must have a little character since you removed the original content and replaced it with what you did.<br /><br />Oh, by the way, for the umpteenth time, thanks for mailing the article you said you would mail to me (on a couple of occassions). You're last email to me was rather entertaining. I posted a similar comment in a previous thread and you quickly emailed me and told me that if you (or your staff) mailed it to me that you would expect an apology on this forum. Here's my apology in advance and don't bother sending the article - I think I can live without it. By the way, it would have really made my day if you would have sent it.<br /><br />Best to you and yours (and from the edited post it sounds like you have a lot of "yours"),<br /><br />Fred<br /><br />

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10-01-2005, 02:52 AM
Posted By: <b>WasThatYourBest?</b><p>Anyone that knows me - knows that.<br /><br />OTOH, Pretention appears to be your principality, and you wear the clothes well.<br /><br />But please go on with your story. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Joe P.

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10-01-2005, 11:06 AM
Posted By: <b>Michael Campbell</b><p>One final thought on this book, very little of it deals with cards. Uniforms, bats, programs. unique items. Original photos. Very interesting. Maybe 5 to 10 percent deals with cards. if that. <br /><br />I was sitting out on my deck reading it, this morning in the warm sun. Fabulous combination. My wonderful wife even thinks it's great. "Nuff said". Check it out. You won't be sorry.

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10-01-2005, 11:23 AM
Posted By: <b>MadisonAvenue</b><p>"My wonderful wife even thinks it's great. "Nuff said". Check it out. You won't be sorry."<br />*<br />*<br />Madison Avenue would buy that.<br /><br />You're HIRED!<br /><br />The other guy is FIRED!<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

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10-01-2005, 01:29 PM
Posted By: <b>David Rosenberg</b><p>I listed it with a starting bid of $50. However, if someone from this board would like to trade for the book, I would be happy to make a deal. Also, if you desire to bid, I would include FREE shipping. Originally, this book cost me around $100 but willing to sell for less, since I have enjoyed it immensely. This book helped me out, before making substantial vintage card purchases. <br /><br />Thank you Frank Slocum!<br /><br />Regards, <br /><br />David Rosenberg<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4579581962" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4579581962</a><br />

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10-01-2005, 08:53 PM
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>David,<br /><br />This thread is about a different book that just came out. The one you have is great though and I highly recommend it to anyone who does not have a copy.<br /><br />Greg

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10-02-2005, 01:07 AM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Bruce wrote: "I certainly had no intention to insult the wealthiest collectors" <br /><br />What am I missing here? I'm looking for the sarcasm, but I'm not finding it. <br /><br />Uh, Bruce, not sure if you intended it this way in your initial post, but your mention came across as critical of lower income collectors who are driven, in your opinion, by envy, outspokenness and lack of education to deride their wealthier collecting counterparts. <br /><br />That's an offensive statement, and frankly, makes you look like an Alan Rosen-esque schmuck. (leon, can I say "schmuck"? If not, my apologies.) <br /><br />If that's not what you intended to say, or you genuinely didn't get the insensitive and boorish nature of your comment, now would be a great time to clarify. Otherwise you've just needlessly blowtorched a lot of good will around here.<br /><br />And please feel free to check my grammar for me. (Like most on the board, I suspect, I likely did not pay as close attention in my high school English class as you.) <br /><br /><br />

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10-02-2005, 05:45 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>To shift this thread to a more positive note, last night Stephen Wong had a celebratory dinner for the book in Chinatown in NYC (just 10 minutes from my house if you're not sitting in Saturday night traffic). Since I wrote an article for it, I was honored to be invited. The food was flowing, everyone had a great time, I got to meet many of the collectors profiled in the book, and even got to do some signings. I implore everyone to treat yourself to this wonderful eye-popping volume. Even though baseball cards aren't the main focus, it's well worth it and I promise you will enjoy it.

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10-02-2005, 06:42 AM
Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>To shift this thread back to the statements of its initiator: "grammatical errors that permeate so many of the <br />comments that I see in the hobby press and on the Board".<br /><br />Interesting tactic Bruce Dorskind. A continuation of insulting comments. Initially addressed to the vague "envious, outspoken and under-educated" now specifically addressed to the participants of this board.<br /><br />I offer no suggestion Bruce Dorskind, I simply laugh at your folly. Please O - wise - one continue to entertain us.<br />

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10-02-2005, 09:20 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>Well, I must admit that when I read Bruce's statement the only name that came to mind was some guy from Iowa, and I seem to remember a whole lot of folks on this board chiding the owner of Iowa's best card collection for in fact exhibiting all of the characteristics that Bruce described. I certainly didn't find it insulting to anyone still posting here.

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10-02-2005, 11:20 AM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Edited to remove Bruce's offensive e-mail. If Bruce wants to refer to the posters on this board as a cadre of illiterate schmucks, then it's probably best to let his public statements speak for themselves and not sink to his level.

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10-02-2005, 11:24 AM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Daniel: See Bruce's reply. Apparently he meant to insult far more posters than some guy from Iowa.

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10-02-2005, 11:28 AM
Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Aaron--I see no threat in Bruce's email to you; just a request to keep it between him and yourself. I think if he wanted to post the message on the board he would have done so. Your posting of the email is wrong and, whether I agree or disagree with Bruce's points (I actually agree with most), this email should be deleted from the thread.

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10-02-2005, 11:34 AM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Hey, Jay. <br /><br />Here's the threat: "Please note any violation of this will be treated accordingly." It's the last sentence of his e-mail. <br /><br />Frankly I don't appreciate being insulted and threatened--especially when my original post was a very civil attempt to give him a way out of the hole he dug for himself.

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10-02-2005, 11:40 AM
Posted By: <b>Bryan</b><p>This forum is for discussing vintage cards, not for back and forth bickering. Take it somewhere else. This forum is starting to sound like the game used forum (which is now basically dead because people got tired of the relentless bickering.)<br /><br />This forum used to be a great source of info but recently has turned into a great source of annoyance.

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10-02-2005, 11:50 AM
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>I,too, wonder when the ad hominem will cease.<br /><br />Or at least, subside.<br /><br />Generally, it is such a wonderfully wise place to be.<br /><br />Barry

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10-02-2005, 12:05 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>was couched in such ambiguous diction that I wasn't sure I, or anyone else, was supposed to feel insulted. It seemed to me he was saying that the editor of the book he was praising, according to him, included NO DISCUSSION OF the..various categories of people, the listing of which we've all taken offence at.<br /><br />Boy, I sure hope that makes sense...<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/orphgrin3001.jpg">

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10-02-2005, 12:18 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Did I just say I agree with Julie? Wow....anyway, I too, was a little confused (as normally confused about stuff) with what Bruce first wrote. On the surface it did look like a slam against someone....or someone(s), just not sure who. It was such a great start in that first part of the post then it took a sudden left turn instead of continuing to go straight. If Bruce meant nothing by it then I will publicly apologize. It's kind of hard to tell exactly what those words were referring too. I guess it was referring to me? Heck, I don't know. I don't take any of what Bruce says as threatening....even in the personal emails, which will never be allowed to be posted on this forum. As far as the recent bickering on the board I agree...but am not going to stop it until it gets overdone, imo. So far it hasn't been....but that's my opinion and I know others would agree and disagree....regards...

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10-02-2005, 12:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>think Bruce was trying to insult ANYBODY, or refer to ANYBODY--he was just saying what the book DIDN'T take pokes at.<br /><br />Leon, you have some quarrels to pick with me? Last time I counted, you were saying you thought the Peck and Snyders were cards...like I did.

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10-02-2005, 12:36 PM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>Am I the only one that sees his statement as a blast against the Adam Moraine type of posters? That is exactly how it reads.

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10-02-2005, 12:47 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have nothing against you and knew after I made the comment you would take it that way. Honestly sometimes you write things that I have no clue where they came from...and that was the reference.....Sorry about that.....I am sure some folks feel the same way about me too....'tis no biggie...it takes all kinds and I generally enjoy your posts....regards<br /><br />edited to say that I am sure the book is great but doesn't sound like it has a lot of cards in it, relative to other things <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-02-2005, 01:45 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>It's not a card book, although the Just So Young is pictured, but it is so beautiful that it's well worth $20. Admittedly the article Corey and I wrote about collecting 19th century is for the beginner, but you can have fun just looking at the pictures.

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10-02-2005, 02:02 PM
Posted By: <b>ToSlamOrNotToSlam</b><p>When the unsophisticated PR pretender PSA 10+++ took the left turn, as feeble as it was, it was meant to be a slam.<br />Make no mistake about it, it was labeled, "To whom it may Concern."<br />Where I come from, he would have been eaten alive verbally in person.<br />It's gratifying to see that many saw it for what it was meant to be, and didn't turn the other cheek and go into denial.<br />The PR for this book was so badly undermined, that Mr Rosenberg wasn't clear on which book was being shilled.<br /><br />Mr. Bruce D, about your PR application?<br /><br />Don't call us!<br /><br />We'll Call You! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-02-2005, 02:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Ken Eccles</b><p>It's will never happen from me.As to the Book, I hope it turns out to be a Keepsake in History

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10-02-2005, 02:46 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm trying to keep this thread on topic and express what a nice book it is and I feel like I am talking to a wall. Is this thread about Steve's book or are we having an intervention?

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10-02-2005, 03:39 PM
Posted By: <b>Ken Eccles</b><p>As to the Book, I do plan on getting it to add to our collection, especially since it contents are more than just a few Baseball collections. But since this posting was made by Bruce and then his comments, I felt it never to necessary to support the poor and uneducated group of us here. I'm sure the book is Great, and I still learn something new about our past everyday, plus love History. As to any of these posting,Im sure they have no bearing as to the Book or Author, plus I'm glad to see him doing another one in a different area. Thanks Ken

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10-02-2005, 03:40 PM
Posted By: <b>ToSlamOrNotToSlam</b><p>"I'm trying to keep this thread on topic and express what a nice book it is and I feel like I am talking to a wall. Is this thread about Steve's book or are we having an intervention?"<br />*<br />*<br />What price Hypocrisy?<br /><br />For someone that has made it a practice of pirating, and Shanghaiing other threads with your TV trivia, I would put down that stone if I were you.<br /><br />Are you fighting for this thread because you and the PR wannabee are in the book for beginners with pretty pictures?<br /><br />If I recall correctly, once you hook yourself into your trivia, the thread never goes back to it's original topic.<br /><br />What price Glory? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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10-02-2005, 04:04 PM
Posted By: <b>Greg Ecklund</b><p>Eye hav this book, butt amm having a hard tyme reeding it - eye kneed Bruce to tel me wut sum of tha wordz meen.

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10-02-2005, 04:14 PM
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Hoping not to upset Barry too much but does anyone know why Bruce posts here or even reads the board given his disdain for most of the members and overwhelming grammatical errors contained in posts?

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10-02-2005, 04:19 PM
Posted By: <b>R.D.Cook</b><p>Yeeha!!!<br /><br />My vote goes to the novice & illiterate collectors party.<br />I'm not paying retail for this book or anything that comes from a collectors supremacist group... <br />Will wait for a cheap used copy on eBay... the novice and illiterate way.

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10-02-2005, 04:19 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Joe-Please don't say you are starting up with me again. It was so nice when you left the board on a self-appointed exile for a few months. Now you are back offering your cryptic posts that only you understand and you are actually back attacking me. Did you run out of your medication, or did you get just get bored?

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10-02-2005, 04:27 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You don't have to pay retail for the book- it's already discounted on Amazon.

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10-02-2005, 05:59 PM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Grag, no neede bruce help wordz for you/ you make talk goode. me lern reid an rite good two. Bari, me like book picyures bigg goood.

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10-02-2005, 06:19 PM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Actually Barry, I purchased the book via Amazon and when shipping charges are factored in, the discount is nominal if buying it retail at your local book store. <br /><br />I have to say while certain sections of the book were well done, the book fails miserably in actually taking you into the context of these great collections or profiling the individual collectors. <br /><br />Marshall Fogel is a perfect example. The book briefly describes what one can only imagine is his magnificent display room, yet we are never shown a single photo of it (or Marshall). The entire article then read like a typical auction catalog describing various individual items in detail, but mentioning only a single tidbit of Marshall himself--12 pages into his 13 page chapter--or his collecting stories (he bought 1953 Topps packs as a kid). <br /><br />The wasted space Stephen took up with his Giulilo Camillio story (which read like the irrelevant opening paragraphs of a flowery Mastro auction item description) was more than what was spent on Marshall himself. <br /><br />The book basically is a nice auction catalog for memorabilia collectors (not for card collectors who won't find enough to interest themselves). It reminded me very much of the catalogs Lelands used to publish in the 1990's with a few neat photos of a few carefully arranged items grouped together. (But still, unfortunately, better than any other memorabilia book out there.)<br /><br />I already have a collection of auction catalogs. What I would have preferred is a in-depth look at the collectors and how they shaped and display or store their collections. Without that the book resembles too much souvenir books from the Baseball Hall of Fame and the Baseball as America exhibit. Otherwise, thanks to Stephen for his efforts. <br /><br />

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10-02-2005, 06:37 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Aaron- I think it's fair to say that some parts of the book are less interesting than others, and I think we each have areas of collecting that we prefer to read about. In my case, I think the first two chapters profiling the Corey Shanus and Mark Cooper collections transcend anything you will ever see in an auction catalog, because many of their pieces are one of a kind. Gary Cypres's collection is likewise monumental. I agree that some sections, especially those that feature T206 or 52 Topps don't really offer us anything we haven't seen before; and likewise not every bit of text may be to your liking. But at its best you will see many things that have never been published before and for me that is worth the price of the book. Nobody can like everything in it. Not trying to shill for Stephen, though I will say he worked himself to the bone these past two years and he is rightfully proud of his effort.

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10-02-2005, 07:44 PM
Posted By: <b>SloatAlert</b><p>"Admittedly the article Corey and I wrote about collecting 19th century is for the beginner, but you can have fun just looking at the pictures."<br />*<br />*<br />Are you saying that the book is for beginners, and if you can't read, you will find pictures that will entertain you?<br /><br />Those are your very own cryptic words.<br />If there is anyone attacking, it is YOU.<br />You're beginning to sound like our very own inhouse PR PSA 10+++.<br /><br />Oh, and another thing Mr Sloat, if you're having trouble recollecting your cryptic TV trivia piracy, I might just be able to help you there also. - My advice - Don't press it.

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10-02-2005, 07:46 PM
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>I had placed an order for the book on Amazon but I just cancelled it. Sounds like there maybe too much text for me and not enough pretty pictures. Actually as someone who does not care about anything but vintage cards in this hobby, I am not sure I would really appreciate the book.

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10-03-2005, 04:56 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Joe- I don't want to do this anymore and I will no longer respond to your posts.

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10-03-2005, 05:59 AM
Posted By: <b>PirateAlert</b><p>Folks, the above isn't cryptic to Mr Sloat, he knows what I'm talking about.<br />After giving it a long thought, he made the right move.<br />Being cute is not his game.<br />Check Mate! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-03-2005, 06:52 AM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Shouldn't that be "and/or"? The way it is written now excludes too many of us. Still, anyone who nails 2 out of 3 (like me; oh, come on, give me the "educated" at least--I do have a doctorate after all) has a .667 average, which is nothing to sneeze at. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />--"Greed is good." Gordon Gekko

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10-03-2005, 07:23 AM
Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>Adam,<br />Irregardless of the circumstances in which it is used, and/or is not gramatically correct, at least according to Strunk and White (The Elements of Style). I'm sure Bruce can add that to his list of grammatical errors.<br /><br />By the way, irregardless is correctly used in the above sentence, as it is intentionally used in a mocking way.

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10-03-2005, 09:06 AM
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>As someone who goes on this forum to learn different views and get information on interesting baseball card topics, it is hard to overstate how repulsed I feel at the kind of posts by Joe who posts under the login tobacco-r-us. They are venomous in tone, have nothing to do with the topic of the thread under which the post appears, and serve only to dissuade people from either lurking or posting on this forum. The ability to post on this forum should be a privilege, not a right, which can be taken away by persistent nasty off-topic comments, exactly of the sort by Joe of tobacco-r-us. This forum has taken great pains to filter discussion of non-vintage baseball card topics, yet seems very lax in permitting postings of malicious off-topic remarks. I would ask the moderator of this forum to seriously consider taking a stronger rein in policing this kind of venom and to revoke the posting privileges of persistent offenders.

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10-03-2005, 09:35 AM
Posted By: <b>leonl</b><p>In fact I have had discussions about this issue this morning. What I would like to say is that if someone comes on the board, and never (or almost never) posts anything positive, then they shouldn't be here. I probably spend more time than anyone on the board and have an eye on almost every nuance. Not much goes undetected. I would like for everyone to keep in mind, when they post, if it's not about vintage baseball cards, or related topics, then this really isn't the forum for it. If all you do is spew venom then I would prefer you not be here. As for personal issues that are vintage baseball card related, and get dragged onto the board, my opinion has not changed..This forum will be as open as I can let it be without it being detrimental to the well being of it, which is relative in itself........best regards (and it was nice chatting with you again on the phone)

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10-03-2005, 09:38 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>Corey, I checked out the book today and I think it's great, but like Aaron I was hoping to see how you guys display your items. I was a little disappointed to see a picture of Bill Mastro going up the stairs to his display room, but no pictures of the display room. When Mr. Wong came to your house did he take pictures of your displays? Or did he just select items from your collection and photograph them individually?

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10-03-2005, 10:58 AM
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>He just took pictures of select items from my collection. Each collector had a focus to his collection, and Stephen tried to take select items which represented this focus. When I saw Stephen this past weekend at the celebratory dinner, he spent some time explaining to me the tremendous time and effort (in some cases several hours) that went into the planning and execution of some of the shots. Viewed from that perspective, some of the background for some of the items (e.g., the Cracker Jack cards nestled among actual crackerjacks, the vintage Yankee greats jerseys hung on a rod in a closet, the T206 cards interspersed among an opened T206 pack) are sensational. I also was very impressed with the way the book was laid out -- inserting the illustrations of the various artifacts within the text of the essays, as opposed to making them separate plates on succeeding pages.

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10-03-2005, 02:29 PM
Posted By: <b>tobacco-r-us</b><p>Bruce speaks:<br /><br />This beautifully written, wonderfully illustrated book is for the<br />serious, intelligent collector. The focus is on the best of the best<br />-the rare- the noteworthy- and the historically important.<br /><br />No error cards or discussion about prices or collectors who<br />are too rich for the envious, outspoken and under-educated-<br />rather a great story on America's game and people who<br />have dedicated their time, energy and resources to buidling<br />truly world class collections<br /><br />And best of all, there are profiles with photos of the country's<br />great collectors---so you'll finally get to put a face to the<br />legend. <br /><br />---------------------------------------------------<br /><br />I am astonished by the over reaction to my comments about "snide commentary."<br /><br />The point I was making is that so many people in the hobby are always commenting about prices or expressing jealously about upscale collectors.<br /><br />I am all for capitalism and certainly believe that wealth is a wonderful attribute.<br />It is pleasure to see a book which focuses on historical significance rather than<br />the value of the cards.<br /><br />I certainly had no intention to insult the wealthiest collectors--- though I must say it is delightful to read a book which is clear and articulate. And to read hobby and baseball history without the grammatical errors that permeate so many of the comments that I see in the hobby press and on the Board.<br /><br />I aI would appreciate it if those who express paranoia<br />study the words before attempting to articulate their point of view.<br /><br />Bruce<br /><br />*<br />*<br />*<br /><br />If You Want to ADD to a Forum.<br /><br />You Don't Start Off by INSULTING It!<br /> <br />

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10-03-2005, 02:35 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Unless I missed something in this last post of yours it didn't add anything positive to the forum. See my last post above. Please adhere to it. Thanks.

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10-03-2005, 02:57 PM
Posted By: <b>tobacco-r-us</b><p>The results of this thread is due to the fact that Mr Dorskind undermind his own shilling of the "Book of Educated Collectors", by consentrating more on the slamming of the members of this forum.<br />Thus the reaction by the members.<br /><br />If he can't stand the heat.<br />He did right by getting out of the kitchen.<br /><br />He spoke, and he got a reaction.<br />I can't be any clearer than that.

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10-03-2005, 03:34 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I don't give a rat's ass about anything else at this moment. Let me try to be more precise. ANYMORE posts that you post, without something about vintage baseball cards in them, will be deleted. If you respond to this it better have something about a T206 or T205, or some cards series in it, or it will be gone..... thanks again... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-03-2005, 03:53 PM
Posted By: <b>tobacco-r-us</b><p>T217 MONO Metzger <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-03-2005, 04:05 PM
Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>I picked up the book today --I am enjoying the book and although cards are my major interest if you love the game of baseball it is hard not to appreciate all the other memorabilia which has been so beautifully photographed.

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10-03-2005, 04:17 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Thank you for someone saying something nice about the book and getting us back on track.

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10-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Posted By: <b>Douglas</b><p>I wonder how Mr. Wong found the subjects for this book? Were they people he knew? People he had done business with? How did he choose which collections to profile? <br /><br />Just curious.<br /><br />Doug

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10-03-2005, 04:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Mike Campbell</b><p>I recently discovered this forum, I don't know, a week or ten days ago. Something like that. I have met some nice people, even talked to a couple gentlemen on the phone today, regarding a baseball card issue, and possibly some bigger and greater opportunities relating to my passion which are baseball and it's history. And all that goes with it. I have sent off checks for the purchase of some rare items I would not have otherwise been able to locate had it not been for this forum. In the past, I have avoided any online forums or discussion groups, chat rooms, because inevitably a few bad apples would ruin it and it would turn into a free for all, and vear off into matters that had nothing to do with the subject at hand. Quite frankly, that bores me to tears. I'm hoping that's not happening here. Aren't we all adults here? If there are personal issues, deal with them somewhere else, or in some other fashion. I've been screwed by thieves on E Bay. I have had items show up that were broken, or not what were promised, but I sure wouldn't have bored or bothered anyone in here regarding those issues. They are my problems, and I can deal with them on my own. Let's try to stick to the format that has been laid out for us. Let's make Leon's job a bit easier. Let's keep this fun and interesting. We all benefit from each other. Both the beginner and the experts all have something to offer.

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10-03-2005, 04:48 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Stephen started out by doing a bit of networking, contacting some of the big auction houses to get some leads on who had the most interesting collections. He was not always successful, as some guard their privacy. In the end he was able to get 21 collectors who agreed to participate, and he tried to find a theme in each contributor's collection. It was a great idea and I feel he pulled it off with flying colors.<br /> When he asked Corey to write the article on collecting 19th century, Corey turned to me and asked me to help him specifically with the card section and with other general information. Networking was the key to making the project successful.

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10-03-2005, 04:52 PM
Posted By: <b>Mike Campbell</b><p> To the previuos writer...Are you involved with Sloatsports?

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10-03-2005, 04:56 PM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>One note from Joe's quote of Bruce's initial post: "And best of all, there are profiles with photos of the country's great collectors---so you'll finally get to put a face to the legend." <br /><br />This actually makes me wonder if Bruce even read the book. <br /><br />Ideally, Bruce's description would have been accurate and then we'd have the kind of memorabilia book that the marketplace has been clamoring for, as opposed to another book which uses memorabilia or historical artifacts to deliver and other "history of baseball" approach which focuses more on the game and its history than the collections and the collectors. <br /><br />However, as far as I can tell there isn't a single photo of any individual collector's except Stephen who is shown on the inside book jacket above his bio. <br /><br />Another sad (at least for me) example was the section on World Series programs from the Clister's collection. The only mention of them at all was that they are father and daughter and from Pittsburgh. That's it. I'm not kidding. No photo. No photo of them and the mass of their collection. Nothing on why they chose to collect this niche. Nothing on their best deals or favorite programs. Nothing other than their names and his city of origin. <br /><br />To me that's a major disappointment. I'm going to try and finish the book tonight and will post a detailed review of the book on my blog this week. Hopefully it'll get better (I still haven't read Rob Lifson's pinback section!). <br /><br /><a href="http://aaronsroom.blogspot.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://aaronsroom.blogspot.com</a>/<br />

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10-03-2005, 05:11 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>No, actually I've never heard of Sloatsports, although I am aware of a coin dealer whose last name is Sloat (different spelling). You may be thinking of him. I am Barry Sloate, and I am a one-man operation.

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10-03-2005, 05:13 PM
Posted By: <b>Mike Campbell</b><p>I was just going to thank you for the kind words given me in E Bay today. Just a couple of wire photos I won.. But...I will thank him instead. Otherwise, thanks for the reply.

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10-03-2005, 05:16 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Aaron- all the collector's who contributed have their photos in the back of the book. Did you miss that page, or am I missing your point?

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10-03-2005, 05:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>I think Dave Bushing is the only one missing in the photo section. Unless I missed him.

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10-03-2005, 05:28 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Only the people whose collections are profiled are pictured. My bio is in the back but no picture.

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10-03-2005, 08:07 PM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Hey, Barry, sorry I should have been more specific: there are no pictures of the collectors in their respective chapters. <br /><br />The offered pictures of the collectors are all thumbnail size (one per featured collection) and appear grouped together over a two page spread in the back of the book. <br /><br />The section actually makes me even more deflated by this book. Even in the small thumbnail size photos, you can see tiny glimpses of a few displays and display rooms (such as Gary Mark CypresDr. Mark W. Cooper and even Corey Shanus from this thread). <br /><br />This would have been a dream book for alot of memorbilia collectors such as myself. What an oppurtunity missed! I call for a sequel!

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10-03-2005, 09:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian McQueen</b><p><br />Barry,<br /><br />Congratulations on having your article published with the book. Sounds like a really neat accomplishment for you. Altogether, it sounds like a great read and I'll look forward to nabbing a copy the next time I'm in a bookstore.

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10-04-2005, 04:51 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Aaron, I agree that the pictures are very small and could have been with the chapter. But how do you feel Stephen missed the boat? I am asking in the spirit of constructive debate, as I feel he did about as well as one can. How could he have done it differently to make it better?

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10-04-2005, 08:11 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>I think what people want to see is how others display their items, not just the items themselves. I think the book is still fantastic, but really how could a book like this be made without showing a single display room? Why tease us with a photo of Bill Mastro walking up the stairs to his display room without showing the room itself? Nearly all of us who collect memorabilia have our own "mini-museum".

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10-04-2005, 08:55 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Daniel- That's a very good point and I agree that would be helpful. I know Gary Cypres has a museum in Los Angeles and it was shown several months ago in the SMR magazine. Bill Mastro was profiled last year on "The Incurable Collector" and his collection is in both glass cases and on the walls of his home. Rob's pins are displayed mostly in butterfly cases; Corey has some things displayed but not all; Mark Cooper has his games on shelves, etc. You can kind of picture how display pieces would look on a wall, but I agree you feel more intimate with the collection and almost feel like you were invited for a private tour when you see it displayed.

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10-04-2005, 11:34 AM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Hey, Barry. Daniel actually answered your question in a much more succinct manner than I would have but I can add some more specific detail. I think what was so exciting about this book (I pre-ordered it off Amazon as soon as someone posted here about its existence) was the promise of going inside some of the world's best collections. <br /><br />Because the book bore the Smithsonian name, I sort of assumed that the book would resemble their magazine's article back in 1987 on Barry Halper and his collection. That is that, yes, there were some beautifully laid out, carefully staged memorabilia photos, but we also saw multiple photos of Halper and his stunning display floor. The article was as much about Barry and his collecting experiences (if not more so) than the history of baseball. <br /><br />I was hoping the book would be more of the same, only with more collectors featured. <br /> <br />Basically auction catalogs present a great opportunity to see particular memorabilia beautifully photographed in color with their history and specs detailed in the item description. Yet, there is a natural curiosity on the part of memorabilia collectors who can't afford to spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars (or even those who can) to see where these great items end up--with whom and how does the item fit into the buyer's collection. (I've often thought MastroNet or Lelands or REA could drive interest in the hobby and increase sales and consignments if they would simply add some creative content to their websites in between auctions--basically profile the collections of their top buyers with a ton of digital photos--to drive traffic even in down time.) <br /><br />Meanwhile, the Baseball Hall of Fame has published a few books in the exact style of Stephen's book that almost exclusively discussed the memorabilia items as an afterthought to the historical event or player they were tied to. While these books have some nice photos, they are rather generic and sterile. <br /><br />IMO, what fellow memorabilia collectors really wanted and what the marketplace lacks right now is a book that harkens back to the Smithsonian/Halper article, only with the knowledge, organization and production values that Stephen poured into his book. That is to take us inside these twenty or so collections--show us the display rooms and cases, show us the walls filled with framed advertising pieces and pennants, show us the closets overflowing with game used jerseys, show us the basements filled with stadium artifacts, etc. <br /><br />And let us get to know these collectors. Who they are. What drew them to collecting and to their respective niches in particular. What their best purchases and experiences have been. Describe the joy that these relics bring them and why they continue in the hobby. <br /><br />Last night I made more headway with the book and actually found three very well written chapters focusing on Rob Lifson's pin collection, Penny Marshall's kitche and folk art collection, and the gentleman (can't remember his name off the top of my head) who collects stadium artifacts. Those were great stories and we really got a terrific sense of the collectors, their collections and that important link as to why their collections were personally meaningful to them. <br /><br />Still, I'm reading through the stadium collector's chapter and it says he's converted his basement into a museum complete with a faux Ebbets Field rotunda he had built at its entrance. And there wasn't one photo! (Not of the entrance or the basement/museum.) That was extremely frustrating. <br /><br />I've seen Bill Mastro's display room on a TV show--it's staggering, awe-inspiring. So it's sad to know that Stephen's chapter on his collection included only a single photo of Mastro's room, and just a small section of a single display case at that. That was extremely frustrating. <br /><br />The trophy collection, Cory's collection, Marshall Fogel's collection. The list goes on. Yes we saw bits and pieces, but without seeing the whole, we miss the awe--and that's what would have made this book great. <br /><br />I mean Stephen is a memorabilia collector so he doesn't need me telling him this, but part of what drives us in this hobby is the purely visual, aesthetic apperception. It's the priority of displaying and immersing ourselves with the unique object(s) vs. the pleasure and challenge of completing a card set or collection that is then usually tucked away. That voyeuristic sense of awe at seeing a prominent collector’s personal collection in its proper context is missing from this book. I hope that someone takes another stab at this niche (in whatever media). I for one would be first in line to buy.<br /><br />Anyway, it's just sad because obviously Stephen had the right idea and the perfect opportunity to really deliver to memorabilia collectors what we've been looking for. He had the publisher, the resources and the cooperative collector/owners of these great collections. It's like all these elements were in place to deliver the seminal book on baseball memorabilia collecting and instead of hitting the ball out of the park, it landed five feet from the warning track for a long fly ball out. It's definitely the best memoribilia book out there (which really isn't saying alot), but it's still more of the same. <br />

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10-04-2005, 12:14 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Aaron- These are all fair points and what makes me happy is that you have read the book and put some thought into. That's a lot more than others who don't care to buy it because it doesn't include enough baseball cards. And for the record, there are some great baseball card collections that don't contain all PSA-9's but in fact have great rarities, but for one reason or another Stephen didn't capture any of them. Obviously, it goes without saying that this is Stephen's vision, and he put the book together based on how he wanted it to look. Now that I read your detailed post, I too feel the same as you and would want to get a more personal look at the collectors and how they display their material. Keep in mind too that some prefer to keep their collections tucked away in safe deposit boxes, so this could not be done for everyone profiled. Unfortunately, my own contribution is minimal; Corey and I wrote our article together and submitted it to Stephen about a year ago. I had no input at all and wasn't even aware of the editorial changes made until I received my copy of the book and reread my section. It would be nice if Stephen could get onto this site and talk a little bit about how he put this whole project together. You know what, I think I will email him, give him the link, and see if he has time to read it and comment.<br /> And Aaron, thanks for taking the time to read the book and offer a balanced and fair critique.

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10-04-2005, 02:01 PM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>Hopefully Mr. Wong will take all of this as constructive criticism because the book as it is now is fantastic. Certainly the best of its kind.

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10-04-2005, 02:04 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I emailed him earlier but I know he is busy making radio and TV appearances to plug the book so I don't know what his schedule is like.

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10-05-2005, 07:08 PM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>Hey, Barry. No prob, I just hope Stephen doesn't think I'm bashing his book! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> It's actually well-done and the amount of time, energy and resources Stephen poured into it is obvious on every page. <br /><br />In terms of additional photos, I don’t know what the status of Stephen's publishing deal is or what sort of license he has with the individual profiled collectors, but I wonder if he (or the collectors) would mind allowing some of the larger collection photos be featured here on the web. Perhaps Leon wouldn't mind hosting a few in a thread here at VBC or Eric might be willing to over on the game used forum (I certainly would be willing to host any on my blog). <br /><br />I think there would be an overwhelmingly positive response to this that could raise awareness of the book and help fuel its sales. <br /><br />--Aaron<br /><br /><a href="http://aaronsroom.blogspot.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://aaronsroom.blogspot.com</a>/<br />

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10-06-2005, 05:36 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't know if we are allowed to post pictures without the author's or publisher's permission. If Stephen has time to go on this board, we can ask him. But posting on a chat board might not be his thing.

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10-06-2005, 10:23 PM
Posted By: <b>Rob (NYC)</b><p>I got my copy. I'm kinda torn. It's a wonderful book with its stories and illustrations of the featured private collections and more. I'm sure it would find its way into The Metropolitan Museum of Art bookstore. It also makes me realize I will never be able to compile a collection that comes even close to a fraction of their significance.

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10-20-2005, 09:57 AM
Posted By: <b>Stephen Wong</b><p>Dear Bruce,<br /><br />I want to personally thank you for the kind words about my book. I really consider it a great privilege to have such hobby veterans as you and others on this chat board appreciate the book. It was a journey of a lifetime and I am grateful to have the opportunity of sharing the dream with you. Many, many thanks.<br /><br />Best regards,<br /><br />Stephen

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10-23-2005, 03:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Patrick McMenemy</b><p>I finally had a moment to flip through the book the other day at the local bookstore. <br /><br />What captured my interest was the beautiful Carl Horner cabinets, and an extremely vivid Honus Wagner photo.The clarity of the Horner Cabinets are simply breathtaking.