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10-13-2005, 07:53 PM
Posted By: <b>Frank Ceresi</b><p>I am working on a project involving the name ("Nationals" or "Senators"). I have a couple of questions:<br /><br />1. Besides the 1951 Topps Blue Backs, the 1955 Doubleheaders, the 1955 and 1956 Topps issues, and/or the W 515 strip cards from 1923, are there any baseball cards that list the Washington team name as the "Nationals"?<br /><br />2. Is there any card or other product that uses the name the "Nationals" to represent the Washington franchise that was issued during the 1960's? <br /><br />I know of the Guys and Crane Potato Chip pins from the sixties (per prior post) but I am now wondering about other cards, pins or similar issue.<br /><br />If anyone has anything there can contact me on or offline and I would love to see images.<br /><br />Frank Ceresi<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fcassociates.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.fcassociates.com</a><br /><br />

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10-13-2005, 08:09 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>There's a 1974 Topps subset of "Washington NL" players. Was that team supposed to be the Nationals, or were they never named?

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10-13-2005, 08:29 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>this is a "for learning" thread so no issues...let's remember this is mainly a pre war forum...no prob asking these kind of educational questions though, imo....regards

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10-13-2005, 09:44 PM
Posted By: <b>Frank Ceresi</b><p>Barry<br /><br />They were never named. I remember when the San Diego team was suppose to move to DC. It was suppose to be a "done deal"!<br /><br />Regards.<br /><br />Frank

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10-14-2005, 03:05 PM
Posted By: <b>Josh</b><p>Frank,<br /><br />if you get a chance, you should swing by the store...I know that Bill has some older Nationals pins, pennants and ephemera items that refer to the Senators as Nationals.<br /><br />If nothing else, give him a call and see if he can tell you what he's got that can help you.<br /><br />Hope you're well.<br />Josh

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10-14-2005, 07:00 PM
Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>When the Expos became the Nationals, I read an article on the history of Washington franchises. According to the article, the 19th Century National League franchise in D.C. was named the Senators. To distinguish themselves from this team, the American League franchise chose the name "Nationals" in 1901. Despite this, most fans and newspapers referred to them as the "Senators." This went on for over 50 years, until the team finally capitulated and changed its name to the Senators in (I think) 1956. The expansion franchise in Washington was always known as the Senators.<br /><br />Assuming this is all true, it is kind of ironic that most cards using the name "Nationals" were issued just before, or perhaps even after, the name change.

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10-15-2005, 09:37 AM
Posted By: <b>Frank Ceresi</b><p>The name "Senators" first was used to define the Washington team in 1887-8 (so named after the "Statemen" who played in D.C.'s Swampoodle Grounds with Connie Mack, Dummy Hoy etc). That team name pretty much stuck until the Washington A.L. team owners wanted to change their name in 1905 (hoping it would also change the clubs losing ways from the prior years very poor on the diamond record) with a "new" name...the "Nationals", so named after the famous 19th century team that toured the west in 1867. <br /><br />There was another "change" back to the "Senators" after the 1956 season... but clearly the fan favorite even BEFORE the second name change was the "Senators".<br /><br />Thus, the point made about the irony that cards pretty consistantly called the team the "Senators" NOT the "Nationals" for the several decades even after the 1905 name change is right on target.<br /><br />Frank Ceresi

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10-15-2005, 10:12 AM
Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>They were often referred to as the "Nats", which was part of both names.<br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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10-15-2005, 05:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Patrick McMenemy</b><p>Hello Frank:<br /><br />In an old "Oregon Trail Sports Auction" catalog from February 1998, there was a Jake Stahl studio cabinet. The auction description for this item is as follows: "Jake Stahl Studio Cabinet. Stahl played for the Washington Senators from 1904-1906 and this photo is a 6" x 9" portrait from a time just before Walter Johnson joined the ballclub. Excellent condition. Reserve $175."<br /><br />Note that "Nationals" was on the front of his uniform.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1129411375.JPG"> <br /><br />Hope this is of value.<br /><br />Patrick

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10-15-2005, 08:01 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Patrick<br /><br />What an interesting find. I saw where Marc Okkonen in his classic book on uniforms stated that Washington uniforms had "Nationals" on the front in 1905 but I had never actually seen a photo of one. Thanks so much.<br /><br />That reminds me, if you or anyone have seen any photos of an Washington player from the 1910 time period wearing a team sweater with "Senators" on the front, I would love to see it. Mark Stang has a photo of Clark Griffith wearing one in a new book he published but the lettering is only partial. <br /><br />Any help would be appreciated.<br /><br />Frank Ceresi