1933 Goudey - when was it printed?

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>The back of the #234 Carl Hubbell card says:<br /><br />"Voted the most valuable player in the National League in 1933..."<br /><br />and later :<br /><br />"Established league record for consecutive scoreless innings, 46, from July 13 to August 1, 1933. Gained 10 shut outs during the season."<br /><br />Obviously it was printed after the 1933 season and after the MVP voting took place. Does anyone know when the MVP voting took place back then? I'd imagine if it was printed in 1933, it had to be in November or December. Is it possible it was printed in early 1934?

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Oh no.<br /><br />Will my work never cease?<br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />First the US Caramel set gets moved back to 1933...<br /><br />and now the Goudey sets may get bumped back to 1934 and 1935 respectively???<br /><br /><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Hopefully the research will show that the 1933 Goudey set was indeed printed in late 1933 and NOT in early 1934, which would still qualify it as a 1933 set.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The high numbers were printed after the World Series. If I remember correctly, they came out around late Oct, early Nov. All the Hi#s are Giants and Sentaors, I believe. they played in teh WS that year.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The last series from 1933 was printed later than the earlier series. I think the higher numbers include members of the pennant winning Giants and Senators.

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>No worries Hal, the last series of 1933 Goudeys did come out in 1933, but after the World Series was over. The last cards of the 240 are all Giants and Senators, and quite a few of the cards have updated backs reflecting things like the World Series results.

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>No worries Hal, the last series of 1933 Goudeys did come out in 1933, but after the World Series was over. The last cards of the 240 are all Giants and Senators, and quite a few of the cards have updated backs reflecting things like the World Series results.<br />Here's an example of one of those backs.<br /><br /><img src="http://ccc.1asphost.com/68Vette/236-Davis--rev.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=153652&messageid=1103331139" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=153652&messageid=1103331139</a>

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>It makes sense that some cards were printed after the World Series, but they wouldn't have gotten it into the stores until November or December. Seems like a tough time to sell gum cards, even if it was the only major sport back then. <br /><br />Also, isn't it possible it was printed and/or sold in January/February? <br /><br />It really doesn't matter whether the last series of the set was sold/printed in early 1934 or late 1933, I just felt it was interesting.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Ted Z., are you there?<br /><br />You are our resident historian... so what time of year do you remember buying these late-series Goudeys??<br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Hal.....Have No Fear.....1933 is the Year<br /><br />The last 24 cards reflect the October Classic of 1933 between<br />The NY Giants and Washingtin Senators.And were issued in Nov<br />or Dec 1933.<br /><br />Goudey played nasty "marketing tricks" on the young kids of 1933.<br />Check-out the numbers of the following cards comprising this 10th<br />sheet of Goudeys. Just imagine how many packs were bought by<br />those kids earlier in the year trying to get those lower #s that were<br /> not available till the very end of 1933.<br /><br /><br />Washinghton.............New York<br /><br />#107 Manush...........#125 Terry<br /> 108 Kuhel..................126 Moore<br /> 109 Cronin.................127 Ott<br /> 110 Goslin.................232 O'Doul<br /> 111 Weaver...............233 Vergez<br /> 112 Schulte...............234 Hubbell<br /> 113 Bluege................235 Fitzsimmons<br /> 114 Sewell................236 Davis<br /> 121 Stewart...............237 Mancuso<br /> 122 Crowder...............238 Critz<br /> 123 Russell................239 Parmelee<br /> 124 Whitehall.............240 Schumacher

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Posted By: <b>Gerry</b><p>Yes the 1933 Goudey set was issued in 1933 – actually October of 1933. How do we know?<br /><br />Several of those 24 cards that Ted refers to note the player’s performance in the World Series, so we know they were issued after the end of the World Series, which ended on October 7, 1933.<br /><br />Goudey must have gotten that last batch of 24 cards out very shortly after that date. Why? Because a couple of the 1933 Goudey wrappers offer the R309-1 picture of the 1933 World Champions (as well as the three other R309-1 premium pictures) AND SHOW AN EXPIRATION DATE OF November 1, 1933.<br /><br />So, the 1933 Goudey set except for the #106 Lajoie card was a 1933 set. Let’s not try to make it into a 1934 set.<br /><br />It’s bad enough that the R309-1 premiums are almost always referred to as a 1934 set when in fact they too were issued in 1933 – as any study of the 1933 Goudey wrappers will demonstrate.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Gerry - that is fantastic detective work, thank you!!!<br /><br />By the way, do you have a pic of the wrapper?<br /><br />I have a wrapper that does expire on Nov 1, 1933, but no pic or evidence of the W.S. champs. It must be from an earlier series.<br /><br />Also, a separate question - anyone ever see an unopened pack?

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Gerry<br /><br />The Nov 1st 1933 Expiration date on the wrappers, I believe,<br />reflects earlier series issues of this set. There were at least<br />4 or 5 series issued by Goudey that year. I have a couple of<br />the 1933 Wrappers and I will check them out tomorrow for their<br /> Premium Exp. Date.<br /><br />There is no way, given the WS info on the backs of these last<br />24 cards, that Goudey was able produce and get into circulation<br />this series anytime in Oct. And then, have a Premium set for<br />Nov 1st. Premiums offered by BB card companys typically have a<br />lead time of 3 to 6 months. <br />It is too late here in the East for me to search for my wrappers<br />now; I will find them tomorrow.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Once again...<br /><br />there is NO BETTER PLACE for real vintage card information than this board!!!<br /><br />Thanks Guys!

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Posted By: <b>Gerry</b><p>Not that this is of vital importance in the history of baseball cards, but just to set the record straight...<br /><br />Let me elaborate on the wrappers. There are seven different 1933 Goudey wrappers (not five, and not eight as I once thought). All but one of the wrappers offer collectors the opportunity to send in a group of wrappers to get a premium picture which the hobby later labeled R309-1.<br /><br />Three of the wrappers offer all four of the R309-1 pictures, including the one that pictures the 1933 WORLD SERIERS CHAMPIONS. Two of those wrappers also say that the expiration date on the offer is NOVEMBER 1, 1933.<br /><br />Now, if the R309-1 premium picture of the 1933 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS was available before in October, it is fair to assume that the cards included in the 10th sheet of cards was also available in October. Of course, they were probably also available in November and December.<br /><br />There is no reason to believe that Goudey could not immediately produce and distribute the cards after the World Series ended. I suspect that the cards of the players and their pictures were already in place, and that the text was edited slightly to reflect World Series performance.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Bob Lemke has the R309-1 Goudey cards listed as a "1934" set in his catalog...<br /><br />so I will send this information to him and let him decide if a change is necessary.<br /><br />It may be, however...<br /><br />that Goudey WAITED until AFTER the November 1, 1933 deadline to even START printing the cards.<br /><br />In other words, maybe you could send in your wrapper in August of 1933...<br /><br />but you did NOT get your cards until AFTER the deadline passed and THEN they were printed and mailed???<br /><br />This would make some sense, because it would allow Goudey to know EXACTLY how many of the R309-1 cards they had to print and ship.<br /><br />It also would make sense in that there is NO WAY anyone could have sent in a wrapper in June and received 3 of the 4 cards in the set (the two All-Star teams and the World Series champs).<br /><br />BUT... THE MORE LIKELY SITUATION is that Goudey sent customers the Babe Ruth card from April through July... the All-Star team cards from August until October 1, and the World Series cards in October and November.<br /><br />