Old Mill Brown v. Southern

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Has anyone seen eBay item #5243495909? The listing states it is an Old Mill "Brown" at 10x value--is there any way to confirm this and distinguish it from an Old Mill Southern?<br />Thanks!

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Here is the link to the auction in question:<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5243495909&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Fcgiurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.co m%252Fws%252F%26fkr%3D1%26from%3DR8%26satitle%3D52 43495909%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5243495909&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Fcgiurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.co m%252Fws%252F%26fkr%3D1%26from%3DR8%26satitle%3D52 43495909%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1</a><br /><br />Here are the T206 Museum images of Old Mills to include Browns, Blacks, Southerns, Overprints etc..<br /><a href="http://www.t206museum.com/page/bk_reglt3.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206museum.com/page/bk_reglt3.html</a><br /><br />To answer your question, to distinguish an Old Mill Brown from an OM Southern, the difference is the color on the back. Old Mill Browns are Southerns, but there are also Old Mill Blacks that are Southerns. Difference being brown, black and scarcity.<br /><br />T206 Museum:<br /><br />Old Mill is another common back printed in black, and was issued at all times during the T206 set's distribution. There are two different backs. The first advertises Old Mill cigarettes, and was issued with major and minor league players. The second Old Mill back is only found with the 48 Southern League players and specifically promotes the Southern, South Atlantic, Texas and Virginia Leagues. Recently, a few specimens have been found on Southern League players with Old Mill back printed in brown. These brown Old Mill are exceedingly rare and tougher than those brown Lenox variations. <br /><br />Scarcity order <br /><br />1. Old Mill (Southern League - Double Overprints) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY<br />2. Old Mill (Southern League - Overprint) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY<br />4. Old Mill (Brown) - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br />24. Old Mill (Southern League) - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br /><br /><br />Brian

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Brown Old Mill backs are such a subtle difference from the others that i think alot of people dont know they have them. I think people get confused on them too as it should be the lettering thats brown and not the background of the card.I also dont think theyre as hard as people say because i have 2 of them that i didnt buy knowingly for the back and i dont have anymore Southern Leaguers than anyone else with the set.Ive only seen a couple true Brown Lenox cards but the true Brown Old Mills have definitely shown up more<br /><br />I also think its wrong to list the overprint backs among the toughness chart,they should be listed with variations like miscut backs.I have a sweet caporal back with a scroll on it that doesnt come close to either factory line,so why couldnt it be a rare 2 factory plus scroll back? In my opinion you dont do stuff like that because it wasnt meant to be a card released like that,so it should be an error/variation.You can say its a 1/1 error but then why arent every other type of "error" back listed on the page.Chances are it was something done at the factory and not put into packs,something a father working there brought home for his son,or something of that ilk

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Both for your input. It was very helpful.

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Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>The T206 Old Mill brown back cards are quite rare. Unfortunately it seems every time one appears on Ebay it turns out to be the "faded black" variation.<br />The Old Mill with brown backs are the same color as Broad Leaf backs. When you see one in person there is no mistake on the brown vs. black difference.<br />All of the genuine Old Mill brown backs I have seen appear hand cut or smaller than standard sized T206 cards.<br />Here is a scan of mine from several years ago:<br /><br /><img src="http://members.aol.com/rebelsart2000/ombrown.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Art do you believe Brown Old Mills are harder to find than Lenox Brown,like it says on the t206museum site? Ive definitely seen more OM'S for sale,at least 5-6 compared to 2 for Lenox,and that doesnt count mine<br /><br />Like i said if they had a higher value and more people knew about them then you would probably see more true ones show up.I have 2 of them just by dumb luck but i dont associate any higher value with them just because it doesnt stand out like the red and brown hindu difference.<br /><br />I also think if they had a high value you would see alot of people who are mistaking faded cards for brown O.M.'s

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>the difference between the brown and black back back t207 Recruits is also the same. Scans never show the difference very well, but in person, it is very obvious.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>For what it's worth, I emailed the seller of the card at issue and he pointed out the writing is brown and the SGC label characterizes it as an Old Mill Brown Back--which I assume, since it was done by SGC, they are referring to the writing and not the color of the background?