Koester's Bread Babe Ruth

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-Koesters-Bread-BABE-RUTH-HOF-YANKEES-PSA-2_W0QQitemZ5239940442QQcategoryZ31718QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-Koesters-Bread-BABE-RUTH-HOF-YANKEES-PSA-2_W0QQitemZ5239940442QQcategoryZ31718QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br />Anyone have opinions, info, comments on this card?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I always grade cards with paper loss as Ex/NM, lol. Gotta love dealers trying to hype their cards/<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I'm not convinced that anyone can tell a Koester from a W575, except for the few that appear only in the Koester set. Ruth is not one of them.

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I wanted to let the group know that I was contacted by the seller of the Ruth card. He very politely explained the reasons why he believes Koesters can be distinguished from W575-1s. The primary reason is the card stock, which he says is much thinner and grayer on a W575-1 than on a Koester. The Koesters, he said, are much more like an E121, except for the blank back of course.<br /><br />The seller actually sounded quite knowledgeable, so if you have any questions, you may want to contact him. Bottom line on this one: please rely on your own opinion, not mine.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>in the Mastro Classic Collector Auction in June 2005. These cards were in PSA holders labeled as W575's. Hal posted on the thread below saying they were not Koesters.<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1119588059&lp=1119719013" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1119588059&lp=1119719013</a><br /><br />And another informative thread...<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1124983282&lp=1124994818" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1124983282&lp=1124994818</a>

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Posted By: <b>ellyn2005</b><p>Hello To All Net54 members:<br /><br />We are offering this particular card and would like to respond to the latest postings:<br /><br />These cards were purchased through Mastronet and are 1921 Koester's Bread Cards..They were mislabeled by PSA initially and were given back to them at National to Mastronet and PSA receiving actual documentation of the differences between W575-1's, E121's and the 1921 Koester's Bread. In response to BOTN, please be assured that after 30 years of being involved with rare cards, I have actually seen W575-1's before(Paul Gallagher, NY had them years ago right at his table top) and they are not the same paper stock. You can directly contact Bill Mastro and he will verify that fact. Hal, a very knowledgable collector, was contacted directly by myself and we explained differences..<br /><br />W575-1's..These cards have thinner stock, are grayer and do not have the clarity that E121's or Koester's Bread ..We do acknowledge that this 1921 Koester's Set is a similar issue to both, kind of a hybrid but there are distinctive differences..<br /><br />E121's series 80 only has George Ruth(Babe)with Boston Uniform, yet Tom Rogers, NY only appears in series 120.. both of these cards are identical in this group regarding color, size, even same minor rear back damage, came from same long time consignor... so they definately were issued together..Roth in this set had position as outf. instead of o.f...This group came directly from Mastronet consigned from a well known collector who also had the other cards..This subset had blank backs, similar to W575-1 but card stock is similar to E121...<br /><br />It was Bill himself, with Ken Struss that went to PSA and documented that they were in error and the cards were PROPERLY labeled..<br /><br />We researched this directly and found from other collectors that also have Giants from this exact set that there are differences..Most likely this subset was made by same printer and was made between the 1921 E121 series 80 and 1922 E121 series 120 due to the overlapping players..We are confident that we are correct. We stand behind our claim as knowledgable, reputable dealers and collectors, PSA and Bill Mastro himself were totally involved in noting these differences and that this card was directly acknowledged by PSA as a POP 1 at this time..<br /><br />We feel that this posting should make everyone aware that Mastronet and PSA recognize the difference and it is correctly represented, either way the George Ruth card is RARE, beautiful and undergraded as a PSA 2!<br /><br />If anyone would like a scan of the three cards mentioned, plmk...Thank you, Larry

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Thanks for coming onto our little forum and explaining. I believe that is the best explanation I have ever seen of the differences of these cards....take care...and join in sometime? We'd love to have more vintage baseball card guys interact with us, especially knowledgable ones. (did ya'll know knowledgeable can be spelled knowledgeable or knowledgable?)...wonders never cease.

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>thanks for the response by the seller. <br /><br />Leon - another word can be spelled two ways: acknowledgement acknowledgment<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>....I purchased from you on Ebay, is different than the W-575-1. I recently purchased a raw Hoyt card that was listed as a W-575-1 from L Frisch, and here are the differences that I have found. The Koesters is much clearer than the W-575,it looks like a photo were the W-575-1 looks like a bad copy of a photo, it is thicker than the W-575, if you turn the card, on the back of the Koesters you cannot see thru to the front of the card. On the W-575-1, if you turn it you can see the border lines coming thru. On the W575-1, Hoyts name and team is on the side where Hoyts face is at, and the Koesters Hoyts name and team is on the side where his lifted leg is on. Opposite ends! If the card I got from Frisch is a W-575-1 then there are plenty of diferences between that one and the graded Koesters I got from you. I hope this helps.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Thanks for the info. Maybe you can show scans of the two so we can see?

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I don't have a scanner. Or a digital camera. The Koesters Hoyt you can find it on Ebay. I purchased it about a month ago. Maybe somebody who owns a W-575-1 Hoyt can send a picture.

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Posted By: <b>Larry</b><p>Hi Everyone...<br /><br />Jorge, thank you for acknowledging this difference with your side by side comparison...<br /><br />We are appreciative of all positive correspondence(private and through the forum) regarding this issue so we all can at least safely say that Koester's are probably a different set compared to the other sets in question. They were issued at a different time with a different paper stock and printing process, probably by same printer or licensee....subtle as the differences are, they are unique.<br /><br />No matter what, they are RARE, undervalued cards that surely have a unique distinction of picturing the legend himself George "Babe Ruth" as a Yankee while still wearing a Boston Uniform, that is pretty amazing no matter what set you collect!<br /><br />Thanks again all NET 54 members for motivating me...Larry