Grading fees from PSA and SGC

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>So I was about to send in a batch of some high end cards to SGC, my slabber of choice, until I checked the pricing. For any card valued at $7500 or more it's $100.00, for any card valued between $2501 and $7499 it's going to be $50.00 .....etc etc......I called and they said because they have increased liability they increased prices. They won't have liability from me...PSA is about the same......anyone else think these prices are a little high? Not trying to be a tightwad here but c'mon.. regards

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Leon, <br /> <br /><br />Please give my your cards valued at over 2k - I dont care what they are. I will pay for the grading (but I wont be returning the cards <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ). Seriously, I think its high, but given the value of the card(s), I would probably still pay it.

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Posted By: <b>Mike P.</b><p>I wonder if they would be willing to have an option where you basically sign an agreement that you will not hold SGC liable for any loss, destruction, etc. in exchange for a lower fee.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>It sounds like a way to make more money. Insurance is already required for shipping. I would assume that their "high-trained staffs" have plenty of experience hadnling high end cards. Are they planning on being more gentle for the $100 than the $50?<br /><br />It reminds me of promoters charging different pricing levels for autograph guests, just to make more money.

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>Leon's grading fees are more expensive than my cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />SGC's policy does make it difficult to submit different value cards in a single submission.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...it is primarily about insurance for the cards while they are in the shop. I suspect it is not about price gouging, but I could be wrong.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I asked SGC about their new policy of a $500 card value limit for slab reviews about a month ago and they said that they had to impose this limit due to the liability of cracking the card out of the case - just in case they were to damage the card.<br /><br />I asked if they would consider issuing a waiver form for a slab review submission on cards in excess of $500 so that the submitter could release SGC of any potential damage from cracking the cases. They never responded.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Why is there "more" liability??? You insure them for more, is their liability damaging them? Well, handle them correctly and with care plus they have insurance for that. A card, no matter its value, should cost the same to grade. God I hate grading!

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Dan, I'm usre after you got done with PSA teir insurance rates went up <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I am sure that their insurance companies are very concerned about loss or damage to high dollars cards. Dinging the corner of $100 card is a little easier to swallow than a $1,000+ card. <br /><br />I don't like the new fee structure either. For a collector on a very restricted budget like me, it's almost prohibative to get my high value cards slabbed now.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Robert</b><p>I agree with t206collector that it is more than likely due to the insured risk of handling such valuable cards while in their care, custody, and control. What in fact is their stated policy if a card is damaged in some way while in their custody? If a card is infact damaged while in their care, custody, and control, do they reimburse the submitter for the full insured stated value of the card or do they only go by the SMR or is it a combination of such in some way? If I had highly valuable cards and there was a written policy that I was given in regards to such liabilities and their policy only convered the SMR and their was a big difference between the SMR and actual replacement cost of such where applicable then I may would have reservations about paying such fees for grading unless it was stated very clearly to me that I as a submitter was fully protected monetarily and that if such was to happen I wouldnt be " out of pocket" as it were. For those kind of fees, I would except that the cards submitted were not only looked at by one staff person but all of the graders and that all of the graders were in agreement on a given grade for the card and that the card while in their care was receiving an added level of security and scrutinty if you will. If its still only one staff member grading such valuable cards submitted and there was no written difference as to procedure then like Leon, I would probably rethink the best avenue to submission whether it be SGC or PSA.<br /> <br><br>basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>The problem is, PSA doesn't always reimburse when they destroy a card. Mark Finn had one creased and had the prior scan and proof, PSA said "oh well". So why the high charge? Just to make more money!

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Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>But if you send in a card that you think has 4 good corners and it comes back with one dinged, how do you even start to prove that it happened at the grading site? Isn't it a "their word against yours" situation? Anyone had this problem or have an answer?

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Posted By: <b>Jim F</b><p>You might as well just hang on to them and do it on the spot at the National. I'm pretty sure it is a flat rate(about $30)) from Psa or Sgc. Jim

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>PSA was $50 on spot last time I checked. You take large detailed scans before you ship. The entire grading thing is a joke, so my take is if you play the game, you deserve to be smoked like I was!

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />I know you were smoked. And we both agree PSA is a poorly run grading company. But grading makes the hobby for me, and for plenty others of us, who make most of our purchases via ebay and other internet auctions/sites. When SGC grades a T206 card, I have a pretty good idea what it looks like now, having had 150 of my T206 cards graded by them. They provide an invaluable service to me and to countless others. When you say grading is a joke, the value of your criticsm is sort of lost on me. Hell hath no fury like a collector scorned, so to speak...<br /><br />With respect to the pricing tier, it is eminently reasonable for a tier structure depending on the value of the card. If they ding a card on site, you can sue them to be sure. Will you win is less important than how much PSA/SGC/GAI have to pay in legal fees to defend such suits. Once you get them to court, then it is "he said, she said," but if you have good scans/documentation, you should be alright -- especially if the card going to SGC is coming from PSA or GAI. Someone having a PSA 5 crossed over into an SGC 3 is a lawsuit just waiting to happen. Naturally, SGC purchased insurance to cover this risk. That they have passed some or all of this cost on to the buyers is one factor to consider in choosing a grading company. Like I said, I suspect SGC is shouldering as much of this burden as they can from a business stand point. <br /><br />PSA is another story, but to be sure, they get sued from collectors like you all the time. And they have insurance to cover the cost of hiring lawyers to defend those suits. <br /><br />I'm all for saying down with PSA (indeed, down with them already!), but I love my SGC graded T206 cards. I really do.<br /><br />Paul (aka T206 Collector)<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>This is hardly a new practice. The coin grading companies established this years before cards were ever slabbed.<br />They just want a piece of the pie. We're not talking about low $ cards, but cards worth a great deal more. The grading companies realize that once the expensive card is slabbed, it will be worth much more and it will be easier to sell, when that time arises. A PSA or SGC T206 Plank (as example) will fetch more $ and be much easier to move if it is graded. And although its just as easy to grade a Plank as a Dode Paskert, the payoff is much more.<br />So then its worth the extra $$$ to have PSA/SGC/GAI grade it. Just economics...jay

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Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>I think grading price should be based on turnover time...not card value. They should be just as careful with my Mickey Klutts card as my Mickey Mantle. The actual grading process should be the same for both cards. Making you pay more because they have greater liabilty doesn't seem right.<br><br>Frank

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Hey no offense taken. I didn't like grading before I was smoked and I still do not. I was starting to get into it a little bit but was swiftly reminded where I stand on grading when I received this last SGC order. I may be the last one in the hobby to feel this way but I will hold my ground until the grading companies hire knowledgable people. I had a little better attitude until I got those 3 W-Unc cards back as counterfeits. Sorry guys, it is still a joke to me. Dan.<br><br>When I say grading is a joke, I am saying from 37 years of collecting experience, not from being smoked, so if that is of no value than so be it.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>the grading tiers/prices are based on card value and turnaround time. Its just that the higher priced cards are required to be submitted under a certain tier with a quicker turnaround time.

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p><P>I'm sure SGC and PSA have higher insurance premiums, but let's face it, in this market if you want top dollar at resale, you need to have a high end card graded.&nbsp; Therefore, they have you. Let me use this analogy..</P><P>I'm in the tire business.&nbsp; If you drive into my store&nbsp; in a 60K Corvette, you are going to pay between 1800 and 3000 for a set of tires installed.&nbsp; Now to most of us normal Joes, this would be outrageous for a set of tires.&nbsp; However, nothing to fix on a high end car is cheap.&nbsp; The line of thinking goes, "if you can afford the toy, you can afford to maintain it".&nbsp; Bottom line, tires for a Corvette cost this much, they just do.&nbsp; It is a way for the car companies to ensure they make some more money on the car after it leaves their lot.(whether it be parts or tires).</P><P>In a somewhat similar fashion, the grading companies(yes even SGC) figure, "hey if these guys have the disposable income to blow 7500+ on a baseball card that will probably appreciate anyway, they sure as heck can afford 100 measley bucks to get it graded."&nbsp; And to be honest, I guess I kinda feel that way too.&nbsp; This hobby is wonderful, but underneath it all, it's all about the bucks.&nbsp; I have a hard time paying 12.00 for grading, let alone 100 bucks, but then again, there aren't that many 7500+ cards in my collection. <IMG height=14 src="/images/happy.gif" width=14></P><P>Eric</P>

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Not sure that Leon's reply from SGC was necessarily just referring to liability while handling the card or the storing of the card while at their office. There is an inherent risk in grading a card today that later on may be determined not to meet the standards consistent with the assigned grade or turn out to be altered in some way. <br /><br />While $100 is a chunk of cash to pay for the grading of a card it really is a drop in the bucket considering what the cards are worth and what we have been selling them for over the last several years. Grading companies pretty much get one shot to earn on a card whereas the owner and subsequent owners can continue to earn and earn in a more material fashion.<br /><br />Personally I was wondering when the day would come that PSA, SGC and GAI would impose a sliding scale based on the value of the card being submitted. I know they have held off as it once thought it gives a sense of impropriety—as if you are buying a grade predicated on what fee you are paying.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>I agree with Eric B, and Dan McKee 110%.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Ya' know what I love about this board? It's the give and take of discussions. I knew if I posted this, and the thread on E103's, that I would get some lively debate. I still think $100 is a bit much for one card but there are definitely some arguments that say it isn't that expensive, relative to the added value...I think that is a better argument than the added risk one. I would hope actual claims/damages would be minimal....actuaries would know that, not me.. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>......I'll relent to the fact E107's are rarer than E103's, I just haven't seen too many (that I remember)....regards

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p><br />WHO DETERMINES THE VALUE OF A CARD IN THEIR TIERED PRICE STRUCTURE? Surely SGC wouldn't use the SMR? What about unique items? Who assigns the value? Those E107 HOF cards aren't going to get graded too inexpensively with a new tiered price structure unless the services are oblivious to the latest pricing valuations. <br /><br /><br />I have a concern regarding the reputable grading services use of the AUTHENTIC labeling. I think that the label should indicate what the grading service feels was altered on the card. The labeling should indicate the reasons for the AUTHENTIC assignment. How does this relate to this thread? I think that they should charge more for the AUTHENTIC grading labels so that they can add text (on the back if necessary). <br />

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>If you have private insurance for your cards, the whole insurance thing on their premises is unnecessary as your policy should cover you. <br /><br />I seriously doubt that the premium on any liability policy that a grader carries slides based on the value of the cards in their possession. Even if it did (as do some policies for businesses where they adjust the premium based on the $ value of the work you do) I am certain that the adjustment in rate does not equal the premium they force you to pay. <br /><br />We also know from harsh experience that the slabbers typically do not acknowledge mistakes and do not pay willingly for losses they cause. <br /><br />While you as the customer select the value tier for the cards, the slabbers can jack them up if they see an obvious effort to hide a high value card in a lower tier. That said, I have never had one jacked up on me. You do need to recognize that if the slabber damages or loses a card, they will try to use your value statement in court as an admission that the card is worth far less than you are suing for--PSA did that in Dan's case, and we overcame it only because Joe Orlando is a lying sack of **** and the judge simply did not believe his testimony. <br /><br />All I see is another source of profit covered by a line of BS.