Need help filtering out trimmed cards

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Posted By: <b>Dave Yoken</b><p>Hey Folks,<br /><br />Haven't posted for a while; I've been real busy, but still very much enjoy the board. Quick question for everyone: I am getting sick and tired of buying trimmed raw cards. Is there any other way to make sure they are not trimmed other than just buying graded cards (and one can't be sure with some of those either)? Do I have to bring calipers or a ruler to shows to measure cards before I buy? Does anyone do this, or am I just paranoid?<br /><br />One more thing: How can the grading companies know a card is cut if the card was from a hand-cut series from the 19th century or early 20th? <br /><br />Thanks all!<br />Dave

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Posted By: <b>Jim F</b><p>Dave, the best way is to know the issue you are buying. Get yourself a 10x loupe and study the edges of a card you know is not trimmed. Carry your loupe to shows and don't be shy to pull it out and examine the card you want to buy. Even if the edge looks right but the wear on the corners does not look right(ie: if the top of the corner is staight and the side shows a semicircle of wear)pass on the card. The more you handle a certain issue the better you will become at spotting alterations. Jim

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's a crap shoot buying raw cards over the internet. Like has been said knowing the issues and what to look for makes all of the difference. If I see a Cobby M116 with sharp corners but looks small....guess what....I don't blink an eye...because of all of them that I have seen (maybe 20-30) they almost all look like that. On the other hand if I see an E90-1 with a very small top border and a small bottom one too...then I know there could be an issue.....Bottom line is get to know the series and physically handle as many as you can.....and good luck....btw here's a few characteristics to look for in trimmed cards.<br /><br />1. Wavy cut- very bad.....and you should pass on most of these if you don't want a trimmed card.<br />2. Corners are sharp on one side and rounded on the other.<br />3. The card doesn't measure correctly (less with this as vintage cards are notorious for size differences.)<br />4. Anything that has sharp corners and is in a PRO holder<br />5. Uneven cut on one side but not the corresponding side. <br /><br /><br />and good luck......regards

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I had an SGC grader inspect about 20 of my T206 cards prior to submission at a show a few months back. He took each one out, held the card between his fingers on its face and back, and then examined each side's edge, looking for uniformity around the card. As soon as I got home, I started looking at the edges of my T206 cards, and sure enough, the edges tell a lot about the card. I had always looked at the face and the back, of course, but now I study the edges very carefully.

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>it is impossible to fake. Unfortunately, it is also impossible to review on ebay. <br /><br />I don't rely on mechanical devices (except a magnifying glass and pocket-sized Maglite flashlight). You have to know what you are looking at. I've seen some really good trimmed cards at shows intermixed with lots of legit stuff.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>One way I check if a card online is trimmed is to actually measure the card on the screen. A standard size card is 1 7/16" x 2 5/8" and has a width to heighth ratio of 1.826. Your monitor size doesn't matter. Just measure the card on the screen and divide the hieght by the width. If the ratio is significantly different, then you've got a trimmed card.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Damian</b><p>Simply e-mail the seller and ask them to measure the card carefully. I have weeded out quite a few doing this, and educated the seller at the same time. Also be sure the seller has a good return policy. I know its a hassle to deal with a return, but at least your money is protected. If the seller gives you a vague or no response, pass on it. As far as buying in person ditto with what everyone else said. Inspect as many cards as you can. I still am learning, but have learned a lot through experience in the last couple of years. Also had some costly lessons submitting trimmed cards. Got burned on the grading fees but learned how to spot trimming better. Bottom line is there is a learning curve here and you have to be receptive and patient.<br /><br />Damian

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>there is a skill to determining whether or not cards are reprints, or even trimmed, and not everyone has the same ability to develop that skill. <br /><br />I know collectors who are quite experienced, but who can be holding a genuine t206 in their hands and question its authenticity - the same is true for trimming, which is why some collectors have no choice but to rely on rulers and the measurements published in guides - as a result they miss out on deals. The fact is, production techniques in the early 1900's were nowhere near as sophisticated as they are today, and size varied...that ruler isn't going to do you much good, but studying the heck out the issues you are interested in, including the edges, is crucial.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>One other point I don't think anybody has mentioned yet: when looking at the edges, if one side is significantly brighter than the other three (or two) and some of the other indicators mentioned above are also present, it is probably trimmed. If you take a T206 for example, those edges have been exposed to various elements for nearly 100 years. If a side has been trimmed in the last 20 years, it will be much brighter due to less exposure.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Damian</b><p>I have come across many T206's that are huge (significantly larger than standard) and I knew were authentic. I have also come across many T206's that were just a hair short but did not exhibit any of the signs of trimming discussed here. When they are "short" but no apparent trimming, it is almost always top to bottom. Obviously there is true variance in size with this issue outside of American Beauty backs. What is your or anyone's experience with "a hair short" T206's in reference to having them slabbed? I have a submission out now that will likely shed some light on this, but it may just depend on the grader and what side of the bed he woke up on. Please advise.<br /><br />Damian