PSA 1 Fr-Pr [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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06-22-2005, 06:19 PM

Posted By: AnsonWithout going down the bash path.....Has anyone noticed the tremendous amount of difference from one PSA 1 to the next? I understand that it's anything that falls into the poor to fair range but geeeeeeeezzzzzzzzuuuuuuuusssss. Someone posted a pic of a PSA 1 E101 Cobb a while back that looked as if a school of piranhas had gotten to it. Yet, I've seen nice clean images with a few hairline creases get the same tag. Time for a 1.5 PSA?

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06-22-2005, 06:32 PM

Posted By: Mark HoltI have a number of PSA1's (mostly prewar hockey) and that grade certainly has a big variation. I think I've seen the advise on this board 'buy the card, not the holder.'

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06-22-2005, 06:45 PM

Posted By: Judge DredOk, lets see who has the ugliest SGC10, GAI1 or PSA1... I'll start <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119487448.JPG">

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06-22-2005, 06:45 PM

Posted By: RayBPoor can be bad, really bad, god awful, horrendous, or road kill! Of any grade that PSA slabs, one should really be selective about what you will or will not accept in a PSA 1 holder. Yup...buy the card.

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06-22-2005, 06:50 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineMy personal opinion is that PSA 1's,2's,3's are not even worth the plastic holders they are slabbed in, much less the amount of money these "collectors" spend on them. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-22-2005, 06:51 PM

Posted By: Hal Lewis<img src="http://www.lewisbaseballcards.com/classes/baseBallCard/images/874Lg.jpg">

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06-22-2005, 07:09 PM

Posted By: Andy .....a BVG 1 <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119488902.JPG">

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06-22-2005, 07:11 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorI assure you, these cards are worth quite a bit more than the plastic cost to house them and secure their authenticity. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119488659.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119488689.JPG">

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06-22-2005, 07:25 PM

Posted By: RayAdam, I wholeheartedly disagree with you! As a teacher, the SGC 10 and PSA 1 cards are my only way to collect. In less than two years, I've collected over 125 cards in the T206 set. I own all three Matty's in SGC10 cases and they are the pride of my collection! <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119489123.JPG">

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06-22-2005, 07:28 PM

Posted By: AnsonHere's the link to the Cobb I was talking about. No offense to the owner but I think the GAI .75 comment from another post is pretty accurate. <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5210097032&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V#ebayphotohosting" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5210097032&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V#ebayphotohosting</a> Adam, some of us aren't made of money. I'm glad that you won't settle for less than a four. I will gladly take your 1-3's for the price of the holder.

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06-22-2005, 07:40 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI do not mean to offend anyone, but do you guys honestly think your PSA 1's, 2's' or 3's would generate big bucks if they consigned to a major auction/auction house. When I began collecting in 1988 (age 8) I was a "collector at heart". I now see my collection as a "huge investment", as my odds of SOMEDAY drawing social security,(I was born in 1980) dwindle day by day. I plan to SOMEDAY do the same as Barry Halper did. Collect/invest in premium cards/memorabilia/autographs. and then..... CHA-CHING .... CONSIGN, CONSIGN, CONSIGN! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-22-2005, 07:46 PM

Posted By: Brian<img src="http://home.insightbb.com/~scantland/10779Wagner_1_mk.jpg">

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06-22-2005, 07:49 PM

Posted By: AnsonHmm, I don't know Adam. Someone shelled out $110k for that T206 PSA 1 Wagner a few weeks back. You might take a look at what PSA 3 Mattys, W.Johnsons, Wagners,Youngs, and Cobbs are going for. At the ripe old age of 25, I'm glad that you see the importance of investing. However, realize that sometimes manufacturing runs is more efficient than trying to hit the long ball.

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06-22-2005, 08:15 PM

Posted By: Raywow, you're really young! I thought I was young (1976) for being a vintage collector. Anyways, I see the point you are trying to make and agree with it. Yes, the idea of quality over quantity works for your purpose. But, as a true collector, I couldn't ever complete the set that way. So, for my purposes, 520 beaters are worth much more than 100 PSA 4 cards. Nice to see more people my age in this market.

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06-22-2005, 08:17 PM

Posted By: tbob"My personal opinion is that PSA 1's,2's,3's are not even worth the plastic holders they are slabbed in, much less the amount of money these "collectors" spend on them." Adam- no offense but that could be the dumbest thing I've heard all year, or maybe just the most naive. Let's see you try and collect the 1909 Obak set in PSA 4 or better. I bet you could come up with a grand total of one card. The hobby is made up of collectors, collectors who invest on occasion but primarily are in it for their love of the cards. It sounds like you will be collecting shiny chase cards from the Pokemon set if they have a huge upside. Me, I'll take a slightly worn PSA 3 E98 Wagner any frigging day of the week and twice on Sunday. tbob

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06-22-2005, 08:19 PM

Posted By: will watsoni'm only 24- although i don't act a day over 15 "My personal opinion is that PSA 1's,2's,3's are not even worth the plastic holders they are slabbed in, much less the amount of money these "collectors" spend on them." its worth it, just to know you're getting the real, unaltered thing.

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06-22-2005, 08:23 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBrian's card takes the prize: a PSA 1 with a qualifier! Does that make it a negative 1 when looking up it's price in the SMR? If so, Brian, please send me a check to take it off your hands...

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06-22-2005, 08:57 PM

Posted By: ScottopotamusMost of my T206 collection are in the SGC 10, 20, & 30 grades. I collect them (and 1955 Topps All American Football) for my enjoyment. I hope to one day pass them on to my daughter. I fully realize I will never get rich from selling baseball cards. ...and in the spirit of showing off some "beat to heck cards" I give you Elmer Flick. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119494951.JPG"> Scottoptamus My T206 Web Site <a href="http://www.freewebs.com/scottopotamus" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.freewebs.com/scottopotamus</a>

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06-22-2005, 08:59 PM

Posted By: AnsonScott, thumbs up on your avatar.

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06-22-2005, 09:09 PM

Posted By: MorrieAdam said: "I do not mean to offend anyone, but do you guys honestly think your PSA 1's, 2's' or 3's would generate big bucks if they consigned to a major auction/auction house." It may surprise you to learn that not all of us purchase cards with the intent of one day consigning them to Mastro. I'm glad that you like your high-end cards. I'm happy that someone the age of my students is doing as well as you seem to be. But your motivation for collecting cards is clearly different from some of us, myself included. No, I don't think any of my beaters are ever going to generate big bucks on consignment. But that's not why I bought them. I bought them because they make me smile. Morrie

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06-22-2005, 09:09 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineIn my defense, I hate to burst your bubble, Tbob but I do not collect gaming cards. ONLY prewar/postwar ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AFTER 1965. The only exception being Cal Ripken, Jr. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine As far as the PSA 1 Wagner which sold for $110,000 It's all about supply and demand. How many T-206 Wagner's are there? Of those out there, I doubt IF most would grade higher than a 1,2, or 3. How many have graded PSA 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 ? Can someone show me a population report on the PSA graded Wagners?

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06-22-2005, 09:31 PM

Posted By: jay behrensAdam, collecting 50/4 or higher might be a nice thing for common sets like t206, Goudeys, etc, but there is no way you could put together most caramel sets in that condition. Many sets, like e104-3s, t208s, etc you have to buy what ever comes up. You can't worry about waiting a "nice". There jsut aren't that many around, and in some cases, they don't exist. I had one person laugh at my e104-3s because of how bad of shape they were in. He said he only likes vry high grade stuff. That's fine, but he'll never own a complete set of any caramel issue or other rare sets. For me personall having been on both sides of the collecting spectrum, I really appreciate low grade now. High grade look nice, but they lack character. No one loved those cards enough to carry them around, flip them or show them off to their buddies. Jay My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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06-22-2005, 09:35 PM

Posted By: AnsonAdam, here goes your bubble.... There are almost 25% more graded T206 Wagners than there are E101 Cobbs (just an example). Grade for Grade, there are higher examples of the Wagners graded than the Cobb. While the number of T206 Wagners is almost nonexistent compared to the number of graded cards in the set, count how many TOTAL cards have been graded in some of the rarer caramel sets (E97, E107, Crofts Candy/Cocoa, Nadja etc... It's not all about the graded numbers or scarcity. PSA pop perverts piss me off. It becomes counting holders and not enjoying the cards. I can appreciate high-end examples but I refuse to let the holder be the quest.

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06-22-2005, 11:13 PM

Posted By: Josh K.I just received nearly 1k for an SGC 30 E98 wagner - hardly my idea of worthless.

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06-22-2005, 11:53 PM

Posted By: al davisi guess some people call it an "industry," and they deal in "product." i call it a hobby, and i deal in cards. a well-worn vintage caramel or tobacco card in low-grade that has nice centering with smooth round corners and antique toning frequently looks nicer (more original and vintage) than a sharp and bright card. old cards bring me pleasure because they are historical....a bit of wear gives them realism.

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06-23-2005, 12:01 AM

Posted By: Scott ElkinsA nice 2-4 vintage card looks like a 95+ year old piece of cardboard should look! I LOVE cards in this range.

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06-23-2005, 12:47 AM

Posted By: JohnWow I’m shocked that anyone on this board would feel that way. Not everyone can afford the best. Hell its getting to the point I cant even afford the avg.<img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/143.gif"> Adam you may feel its silly to buy (PSA 1,2,3) and the guy who collects (PSA 7,8,9) thinks it silly that anyone would buy a (PSA 4,5,6). And somewhere I’m sure there is someone who thinks were all silly for spending any amounts of money on these silly pieces of paper. Collect because you like it, collect what you like, and don’t plan on getting rich in the process.

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06-23-2005, 07:03 AM

Posted By: AlanAdam, I think you did offend a lot of us when you made that comment. I can only afford the really poor, off grade material. But, I enjoy collecting it.... Alan

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06-23-2005, 07:40 AM

Posted By: Chuck RI agree with the general sentiments here, but I would like to make an indirect defense of Adam's statement. In my end of the hobby, I see examples every day of common cards in crappy condition that might go for $2-5 max if things were different than they are today. Instead, someone will throw them on eBay entombed in a PSA1 crypt and several people will bid the thing up to $25 or $30. It is in these cases that I would agree that the emperor has no clothes. The cards I'm talking about are things like Horrors of War from 1938. They have been reprinted, but nobody with any experience would be fooled by a reprint. Hence, encapsulating for authenticity purposes is relatively pointless.

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06-23-2005, 08:03 AM

Posted By: warshawlawIt all depends on the card and the collector. Some issues are so rare (e.g., 1928 PCL Exhibits) that you take what you find. I happily purchase p-f cards from rare sets because I know I may not find them again for years. My 1926 Zeenut Lefty O'Doul looks like it was folded in half and rolled up, but it's mine... Some cards are so common (e.g., T206 HOFers) that you may not want to pay $800-$1,000 for a midgrade card. I am content with my "1" red portrait Cobb because there was no way in hell I was going to pay the freight on a "4"; I'd rather have three "1" Cobbs for the same price. Some cards are not that rare but are so high demand that low grade is the only realistic way to collect. My caramel Cy Young cards are lower grade but no way could I bring myself to pay 10x-25x the price of those cards for better specimens. While I don't want to repeat myself w/r/t investments and cards, I do not share the belief that lower grade cards are unsound investments. No, they will not be in Mastro but neither will many of the vintage collectors out there who cannot afford to spend $10,000 a card, even as an investment. Remember, an investment is worth whatever two people agree it is worth. IMHO lower end cards of primo players from popular sets have a ready market and one that will increase in size (unlike very expensive cards, which rely on a thin sliver of the populace for their continued value increases) as more people are drawn into the vintage area of the hobby but cannot or will not spend mega bucks on cards. Consider the lower grade cards penny stocks; lots of people do quite well on those. It all depends on your acumen in picking them. Finally, there is a huge variation in 1's because the flaws that generate a 1 or even a 2 (why PSA doesn't have a "fair" category has always been beyond my understanding) can be multiple or a single severe one. I have some 1's that look like hell; others have a single flaw like album removal on the back, a small punch hole or clipped corner that generate a technical 1 but that look really nice in comparison. I will buy vg-ex with a small hole or a bit of back damage writing in a 1 slab all day long provided I am paying "1" prices for it.

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06-23-2005, 09:40 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineThanks, Chuck that's just ONE of the points I were trying to make. Second, do you guys actually think that WHEN/IF the time comes to sell these cards that you will get back what you paid for them? I think it's great that you collect PSA 1,2, 3 because you are in it for the hobby. So were I, at age 8. Things change, despite the fact I hate change. I just do not believe these cards are sound investments, in the long term. For example, Hal stated that he sold a PSA 1 Gehrig to a fellow collector for $5,000. When it comes time for Mr. Fellow Collector to sell the Gehrig, does Mr. Collector actually think that he will retain his $5,000 or more ? I seriously doubt it. MOST collectors who are in the hobby for "investment purposes"(i.e ME) want QUALITY cards, not beat-to-death cards that have been flipped,traded,put in bike spokes, put in the wash machine, baked in the oven,folded, squewed, fried, pinholed, scotched taped, wrote on, etc,etc, etc, You guys get the idea! I will NEVER have a PSA 1, 2, or 3 in my collection. Hell, I do not even like graded cards anyway. I only own three. 1954 Topps Jackie Robinson (PSA 5) 1958 Topps Ritchie Ashburn (PSA 5) 1958 Topps Roger Maris rookie card (PSA 7) I think it's absurd to spend big money on a card just because it has a lousey number attached to it. Which is why I ONLY buy raw cards from trusting individuals. (fellow collectors) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 10:00 AM

Posted By: Wesley"I plan to SOMEDAY do the same as Barry Halper did. Collect/invest in premium cards/memorabilia/autographs. and then..... CHA-CHING .... CONSIGN, CONSIGN, CONSIGN!" Adam, Cha-ching indeed! Good luck with your plans. Looking forward to seeing one of the big auction house devote a catalog to the "Morraine Collection." Regards, Wesley

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06-23-2005, 10:10 AM

Posted By: warshawlawbecause it is RARE. You seem to miss a big point, which is that many (most) rare cards do not exist in higher grades and/or rarely come to market in any grade. Would you reject the 1914 Ruth that recently fetched a quarter mil because it is lower grade? A "1" T206 Wagner? Any E107 HOFer? etc., etc., etc.

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06-23-2005, 10:19 AM

Posted By: identify7With all due respect to your assessment, Adam, I think there are many ways to invest in cards, just like in stocks and other vehicles. As Leon points out, timing is crucial. When it is better to put your x dollars into penny stocks rather than their high priced counterparts is a serious field of study. I believe that the same is true for baseball cards. During periods of this hobby's brief history we have seen cyclical focus on various areas of collecting, including grade. If you have not researched this history you have missed interesting phenonoma. It is common, as you point out, for significant investors to purchase highly graded material. This happened on a relatively large scale in numismatics beginning in the late '80s. Thus far, based on recent and current coin pricing, the choices were mostly ill advised. Mr. Moraine: you state that you want QUALITY cards for investment (ie. relatively higher graded examples). What factual data do you rely on for this determination? My analysis indicates just the opposite of yours. The basis of my analysis (which I am doing for fun) is the best available card pricing history 1975 - date.

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06-23-2005, 10:19 AM

Posted By: BrianJeff, I had never considered a 1MK having a negative SMR value -- funny stuff. Unfortunately, the card isn't mine. I saw it on ebay about 4 years ago and saved the scan. Brian

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06-23-2005, 10:19 AM

Posted By: Judge DredAdam, There are two main factors why people will buy a beat and tattered card: Economics (affordability) Availability (how many ExMt E107 Wagners are there?) I have a lot of respect for the collectors that love this hobby so much that they will place lower grade cards to complete their sets or to enhance their collections. These people are in it for the love of collecting. I'm not saying that people don't love collecting if they wont accept a lower grade card but the fact that getting joy from adding a card (whehter it be P/F or ExMt) to a collection is what it's all about. Hobby budgets vary from a few hundred dollars a year to millions. If you're on the lower end of the spectrum it's not reasonable to think that you're going to get ExMt cards in any quantity. Getting a card graded is done for a few different reasons: Protect the card for future generations to enjoy. Investment vehicle that may produce a profit later. Place the collection is a set registry. Bragging rights. MOST collectors who are in the hobby for "investment purposes" buy graded cards because that's supposed to be "where the money is" and the investment potential depends upon an assigned number from some trained monkey that knows less about this hobby than a stock broker really knows about picking the right stock. There may come a day when you just might succomb to purchasing a P/F card to complete a set. When that day comes, hopefully you'll see the appreciation that many collectors have for this hobby. I'm not saying you don't have an appreciation but when a hobby is investment driven it makes it difficult to appreciate the hobby if a bubble bursts and the stuff turns out to be just pictures of baseball players on cardboard. Keep collecting and be happy with what you obtain!

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06-23-2005, 10:22 AM

Posted By: T206Collector"It happened to me. I bought a doctored (meaning a reprint made to look aged/old/authentic)"1933 Goudey Lajoie". I got totally screwed, JASON DEAN (SELLER'S NAME) made a $122.50 profit ( my closing bid) off of a dime reprint.Which is why I NO LONGER use EBAY! EBAY SUCKS!!!! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine" Before you try to unload that Lajoie on Mastronet, you might want to start purchasing cards graded by the Big 3, in whatever condition you find them in. Paul Mifsud (aka T206Collector)

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06-23-2005, 10:31 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineWesley, Here is goes, I am 24 years old, (25 on November 3) I have been collecting since 1988. Here's A SAMPLE of what I have autographs of Mantle(Got 10 of em')Dimaggio, Williams, Maris, Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Foxx, Fox, Jackie Robinson, Waner Brothers, Presidents Kennedy, Teddy Roosevelt, Truman, Bush 41, Mother Teresa, individual 8x10 photos signed by nearly EVERY CURRENT A-LIST hollywood celebrity that you could name. Oh yeah, I have a pair of boxing gloves signed by Ali, a puck signed by Gretzky, and a basketball signed by Jordan, NOW Do you want me to go into my card collection? I have over 50,000 cards and over 300 autographs. I just picked up on an autograph of Jack Norworth. He wrote "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" in case you did not know. TRUST ME, for my age, I have one of the most premier collections here in Iowa. IF you want I will even mail you a copy of the 1 PAGE hometown newspaper article I were featured in. "The Des Moines Register", April 5, 2003 edition. SHOW ME another 24 year old, who has the collection that I have! Oh yeah, I also have a pair of game-used cleats from Sammy Sosa ( currently on display at the Bob Feller Museum). TRUST ME, ONE DAY, MY FRIEND YOU WILL SEE THE MORAINE COLLECTION HIT THE AUCTION BLOCK. WHEN MY COLLECTION GENERATES HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, WE WILL SEE WHO HAS THE LAST LAUGH, AS YOU WILL STILL BE WORKING FOR A LIVING. I WILL BE RETIRED, YOUNG, AND WEALTHY LIVING IN AN ESTATE IN GREENWICH, CT, ONE OF THE MOST AFFLUENT COMMUNITIES IN THE ENTIRE U.S. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine p.s. Happy Bidding

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06-23-2005, 10:35 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineAH, PAUL , I THREW THE LAJOIE REPRINT IN THE GARBAGE.IT'S IN A LANDFILL SOMEWHERE HERE IN IOWA. WHERE IT NOW RESTS PEACEFULLY. BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 10:42 AM

Posted By: WesleyBest of luck to you Adam! That is quite a collection that you have amassed there. You are probably right in that I will still be working in this crappy job for years to come. Damn <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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06-23-2005, 10:51 AM

Posted By: identify7Mr. Moraine: I congratulate you on impressing yourself with your accomplishments to date. I followed a different path in my first quarter of a century. By 25 I had a child with a second soon to follow, a house, and a solid job. Times were different. I followed the ideal then and did well and am happy You are following the current ideal - and apparently also doing well and making yourself happy. Great. But you did not answer my question.

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06-23-2005, 10:58 AM

Posted By: GregWOW! I didn't know that a pair of "Slammin" Sammy Sosa cleats existed outside of the local sportsbar, much less in Iowa! Do you keep your Wagner autograph next to Christina Aguilera or Brittaney's auto...dude chill out I remember 24 and its not the best age to start banging on people for their financial situations vs. yours. You started collecting at age 8, I'm sure Dad's $$ started you out, do you plan on giving him a cut of your profits from the Mastronet extravaganza? I think the cover of the Mastro catalogue should just be a scan of the jerkwater newspaper article you mentioned. What was that paper thinking, I guess there were no cats stuck in trees that day? Hey, I live in LA not CT so I'll still be way cooler than you man, good luck on the move. By the way, the amount of sports memorabilia you have will not improve the size of your anatomy...only Porsches can do that. This was fun!! GB

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06-23-2005, 11:06 AM

Posted By: BrianGil, I agree times are different but in many respects they are still the same. People still have families young, own homes young and die for their country young. Adam, you have an impressive collection but it pales in comparison to some other members on this board. However, they don't flaunt their collection nor do they define themselves by their collection. You're not the only young person on this board, I'm 26 and like you, collected cards off and on since 1988. By my 26th birthday I had been stationed in Europe for five years and done combat tours in Iraq, Kosovo and Bosnia. I treasure the collection I do have, but it's not who I am. Brian

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06-23-2005, 11:20 AM

Posted By: will watsonAdam, you sound like a tool. your age shows- you're acting like an immature child. this is a hobby. keep the uppity spoiled talk between your fraternity buddies

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06-23-2005, 11:34 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorI appreciate your reworking of my name, but I will resist reworking yours. Suffice to say, you live in Iowa with a pair of Sammy Sosa's shoes. If that was what I had to be proud of in my life I'd probably sell Sammy's shoes to buy a gun with one bullet to kill myself. Why you continue to admit things that earn you scorn on this board is beyond me, but you may want to take a step out of Sammy's shoes for a moment before you pen your next post. Given your "extensive collection," it is remarkable to me that you would have recently spent $122 on a Lajoie reprint on ebay, and then complain that the seller duped you. Suffice to say, I recommend that you take a step out of Sammy's shoes before you pen your next post. Read and then reread what you have said and how people have responded. You might actually learn something. Also, if I were you, I'd wait for the final sale price from your consignment before I quit my day job milking cattle. Paul Mifsud (aka T206 Collector)

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06-23-2005, 11:38 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineFIRST OF ALL, GREG I AM GLAD THAT YOUR HAVING THE TIME OF YOUR LIFE IN HOYYWOOD OR BEVERLY HILLS. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MOVIES CLUELESS, PRETTY WOMAN, OR DOWN AND OUT IN BEVERLY HILLS? THEY SPEAK A HELL OF ALOT FOR L.A. HUH? SECOND,GREG, IT WAS MY LATE GRANDFATHER, WHO HAD GOT MYSELF INTO THIS "HOBBY". ELEMENTARY, MR DEAR WATSON, I DO NOT BELONG TO A FRAT. NOR AM I AM "SPOILED BRAT". JUST A YOUNG INVESTOR, WITH LOFTY GOALS. BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 11:40 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineMILFSTUD, I LIVE IN THE CAPITAL CITY OF IOWA, (DES MOINES) NO FARMS IN DES MOINES. POPULATION 300,000. I DO NOT MILK CATTLE. WHERE ARE YOU FROM? BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 11:41 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorCopyright 2003 The Des Moines Register All Rights Reserved Des Moines Register April 5, 2003 Saturday SECTION: HOME AND GARDEN; Pg. 3H LENGTH: 724 words HEADLINE: Investment plan is in the cards; Iowa Collects; This collection of sports memorabilia covers all the bases, from being fun to being valuable. BYLINE: Beam Patrice, Freelance OK BODY: Patrice Beam At the age of 22, collector Adam Moraine's goal is to become a millionaire by the time he is 50. To date, he has amassed a collection of more than 60,000 baseball cards, autographs and other memorabilia, which sport a six-figure book value. When did you start to build your collec-tion?I began at the age of 8. My grandfather encouraged me to take up a hobby, and in the 1980s baseball card collecting was experiencing a boom. We both thought it would be a good collectible for me, so I started out buying packets of cards. My grandfather also took me to baseball card shows to meet the stars, buy cards and get autographs. The first time I met Brooks Robinson was when I was 11 years old. During the past 15 years, baseball has become my love and my passion. I go to games when I can fit them in with work, and I'm a charter member and volunteer at the Bob Feller Hometown Museum. In fact, I was born on the same date as Bob Feller, Nov. 3. I've met many stars at the museum, including Stan Musial, Tommy Lasorda and Gaylord Perry, and had my picture taken with most of them. When did baseball cards first come on the market?In the late 1880s, the first baseball cards were called Old Judge. They were approximately 1 by 2 inches and were put into tobacco packets. I have about a dozen tobacco cards dating from 1909. The most valuable card from this time period is a Honus Wagner from the Pittsburgh Pirates, worth $1.2 million. I sure wish I had one of those cards. I do have his autograph, worth about $500. Why do you collect?Mainly, I collect for investment purposes. I don't sell or trade -I just buy. My No. 1 goal in life is to have a multimillion-dollar investment portfolio before the age of 50. Currently, my collection is worth more than $100,000. I do research on Internet auction sites and read the Beckett Almanac of Baseball Cards to keep abreast of current values. Do you have limits on what items you buy?I prefer to collect vintage baseball stuff that dates from the 1950s and 1960s. Those were the innocent days of the hobby, when baseball stars played for the love of the game and not the multimillion-dollar contracts. I have an autographed Babe Ruth "cut" signature card valued at $2,500; a Ty Cobb canceled check for $800 and an 8-by-10-inch photo of Roger Maris for $700. But the gem of my collection is a 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle card valued at $3,000. Did you ever get a bargain?When I was a junior at East High School, I went to an estate sale and found a box of baseball cards from the 1950s. The seller wanted 5 cents each for them. There were no major star cards in the box, but they were worth $5 to $10 each. It was a nice find. When it comes to autographed baseball items, are forgeries common? Yes, and collectors should always follow the old adage "buyer beware." For the most part, I get my autographs in person. Those I don't get myself I buy from a Universal Autograph Collectors Club dealer. Do you have any desire to sell your collection? I can't see myself parting with my cards yet. Maybe I have an emotional attachment to them because of my grandfather. I keep a written list of every item I own and have them sorted by category and stored in boxes. My most valuable items are in a safe deposit box. Baseball cards have been around for 115 years, and I don't see the hobby winding down anytime soon. In 10 or 20 years, as these cards and autographs become more rare, my collection might be worth $500,000. A couple of years ago another collector auctioned off part of his collection for $2.5 million. What items do you still hope to purchase? I have a Babe Ruth autograph and I want a Lou Gehrig one. I also want a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle rookie card. I have his second year, but not his first. I understand you have branched out into other collections.Yes, several years ago I wrote to John Pappajohn and asked for investment advice. He suggested that I expand my collecting. So now I have autographs of Hollywood celebrities, historical figures and other professional athletes in addition to baseball stars. My favorite nonsports autographs are Mother Teresa and President John F. Kennedy. Have a large or unusual collection? Contact Iowa Collects, Box 41397, Des Moines, Ia. 50311 or patricebeam@hotmail.com. GRAPHIC: _By: DOUG WELLS, REGISTER PHOTOS; Baseball legend: Adam Moraine, right, is a charter member and volunteer at the Bob Feller Hometown Museum in Van Meter. This is his autographed picture with the Hall of Fame pitcher. Left: A 1909 tobacco card of Hall of Famer Miller Huggins.A 1953 Mickey Mantle card from Topps. Signed ball: Adam Moraine has an autographed ball from Ted Williams._ Moraine; Collector details; WHO: Adam Moraine; COLLECTION: Baseball cards and other memorabilia; HOME: Des Moines; OCCUPATION: Clerk at Quik Trip Inc. NUMBER OF ITEMS: More than 60,000 items; WHAT IT COSTS: Many baseball cards can be purchased for $1 to $20, and autographs between $5 and $50. CONTACTS: Bob Feller will be at the Bob Feller Hometown Museum in Van Meter from 1 to 5 p.m. Sunday. Go online at www.bobfellermuseum.org. CLUB: Universal Autograph Collectors Club, Box 6181, Washington, D.C. 20044 PUBLICATIONS: "Beckett Almanac of Baseball Cards and Collectibles," by Beckett Publications (2002) LOAD-DATE: April 26, 2003

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06-23-2005, 11:45 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineVERY GOOD, T-206 COLLECTOR. BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 11:46 AM

Posted By: warshawlawIsn't that kinda like being the toughest Muppet? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Adam You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

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06-23-2005, 11:53 AM

Posted By: tbobAdam- no disrespect was intended on my part but I question if you see sports memorabilia and cards as more than just an investment tool. If not, I feel sorry for you. Maybe it is naive to think that young collectors avidly read about the history of baseball and are in love with this great game and its tradition. If you want to try and make a fortune collecting cards, more power to you but I think you make a mistake when you talk about collectors always wanting high grde cards and the market always being there. My take is that there will always be a market for low to mid grade cards whose prices don't fluctuate so wildly and are available at decent prices for true collectors. The backbone of the hobby is in low to mid grade card collectors. I have also found that that these collectors are some of the nicest and cordial people I have ever met. Oh sure there are guys who collect high ticket stuff and have the cash to do it who are also good guys but the backbone is and always will be with the true collector who loves the game and the cards that depict that sense of history and tradition. Tbob

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06-23-2005, 12:06 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI get what you are saying Tbob. I were just trying to state MY OWN opinions concerning the collecting of PSA 1,2,3 and collecting as an investor and collector, as I have been on both sides of the fence. Then, all of a sudden because of MY opinions the thread turns into a GREAT, BIG, HUGE Adam J. Moraine bash fest. I don't recall calling anyone derogetory names. With the exception of poking fun at Paul's last name. I were called everything from uncool to a spoiled brat to a dairy farmer, to you name it, based upon my opinions that I do not think PSA 1,2,3 are worth collecting. As a HOBBY, YES they are, I will admit that. As an investment, NO they are not. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 12:07 PM

Posted By: will watson$100,000 collection? i seriously doubt that. book value and real world resale value are two entirely different things.

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06-23-2005, 12:10 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI GUARANTEE YOU, MY KENNEDY AUTOGRAPH WOULD SELL FOR MUCH MORE THAN WHAT I PAID FOR IT. BY THE WAY, THATS WHAT ITS INSURED FOR. SUPPLY AND DEMAND, AND DESIRABILITY ARE THE KEY FACTORS. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, SHOW ME, SOMEONE MY AGE (24) WHO HAS PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S AUTOGRAPH IN THERE COLLECTION? THEY(THE PERSON MY AGE) HAS TO ACTUALLY OWN THE AUTOGRAPH. IT CAN NOT BELONG TO MOM, DAD, GRANDPARENTS, AUNTS, UNCLES, ETC. BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 12:19 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...based on your ability to spend $122 on an obviously fake 1933 Lajoie on ebay, I doubt you'd find a buyer for most of the autographs you did not obtain in person. That is because your credibility as someone who knows what he is doing is totally shot, both because of that purchase and your posts in this list. If you ran an informal poll on this board, I would guess most of the readers of your posts would have a hard time believing you have $100,000 worth of anything in your life, let alone such a valuable autograph collection. You can insure your collection as much as you want, whether you could collect on that plan if your lost Sammy's shoelaces is quite another. I, for one, am quite certain that many of the autos you didn't get in person are cheap forgeries. I would also not be surprised if some of the ones you did get in person are. In fact, if you send me your 1953 Mickey Mantle baseball card, I'd be happy to autograph it "Best Regards, Mickey Mantle." That way, it would be as authentic as your JFK auto. Paul Mifsud (aka T206Collector)

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06-23-2005, 12:27 PM

Posted By: will watsonJFK? my dad owned a JFK signed document (along with a few other presidents- only one i can remember offhand is LBJ). i'm the benefactor in his will, and since he died three years ago, his autograph "collection" is now mine. so sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but you aren't the only 24 year old who owns a JFK auto

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06-23-2005, 12:36 PM

Posted By: TomJust checking to see if I was able to log in. Nothing to say about this topic.

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06-23-2005, 12:40 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineT-206 COLLECTOR ALL OF MY AUTO'S THAT I DO NOT OBTAIN IN PERSON COMES FROM UACC REGISTERED DEALERS. THEY ARE THE PREMIER AUTOGRAPH DEALERS IN THE COUNTRY.OUR OWN RICHARD SIMON, IS ONE OF THE MANY DEALERS I HAVE PURCHASED FROM. I CAN ASSURE YOU, ALL OF MY AUTOGRAPHS I DO NOT OBTAIN IN PERSON ARE AUTHENTIC. www.uacc.org THE KENNEDY AUTOGRAPH CAME FROM MAX RAMBOD (www.maxrambod.com) THE MOTHER TERESA AUTOGRAPH CAME FROM BARB PENGELLY (www.autographdomain.com) THE TEDDY ROOSEVELT LETTER DATED FEB 3, 1915 CAME FROM WALTER BURKS (www.burksautographs.com) SO CHOKE ON THAT, TO WHOEVER WANTS TO DOUBT THE AUTHENTICITY OF MY AUTOGRAPH COLLECTION. BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 12:47 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorEven if authentic, which, again, I doubt, John F. Kennedy gets you, what, $1,500 tops? <a href="http://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=60" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=60</a> After Kennedy, Mother Teresa (did she play for the Rockford Peaches?), 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle and Sammy Sosa's footwear, I'd say your collection is up to what, $5,000, tops? Where are you justifying $100,000 in insurance? Bob Feller signs for free every year at Indians Spring Training. How many Feller autographs do you think are out there? Same for most of your autographs -- they're plentiful by the hundred thousand. In 30 seconds or less, can you give us your top 10 items and what you think they are worth? I'd also love to hear about your broad pre-war baseball card collection, since this is after all a board dedicated to pre-war baseball cards.

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06-23-2005, 12:48 PM

Posted By: al davisHere is goes. I am 45 years old (46 on December 3). I have been collecting since 1969. Here's a SAMPLE of what I have autograph of Boog Powell(Got 3 of em'), Ozzie Canseco, Jamie Moyer, Dan Rather, individual 8x10 photos of nearly EVERY B-LIST comedian that has played the Improv in Des Moines. Oh yeah, I have a Sidney Ponson game used wrist band. Oh yeah,I have over 200 cards (not just Fleer, but also Donruss and Score). TRUST ME, ONE DAY MY FRIEND YOU WILL SEE THE DAVIS COLLECTION HIT THE AUCTION BLOCK. FROM THAT DAY ON, YOU WILL STILL BE LIVING IN HELLHOLES LIKE CALIFORNIA, WHILE I ENJOY THE COMFORTS THAT ONLY SIOUX CITY CAN PROVIDE!

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06-23-2005, 12:53 PM

Posted By: andy beckerwhat is the over/under on the misuse of "i were"????

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06-23-2005, 12:56 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorWell, let's see, on ebay I could've had this one for $25.... <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1447&item=6185802978&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1447&item=6185802978&rd=1</a>

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06-23-2005, 12:57 PM

Posted By: Glenn"My No. 1 goal in life is to have a multimillion-dollar investment portfolio before the age of 50. Currently, my collection is worth more than $100,000. I do research on Internet auction sites and read the Beckett Almanac of Baseball Cards to keep abreast of current values. Do you have limits on what items you buy?I prefer to collect vintage baseball stuff that dates from the 1950s and 1960s. Those were the innocent days of the hobby, when baseball stars played for the love of the game and not the multimillion-dollar contracts." Is no one going to comment on the amusing juxtaposition of the above paragraphs? I haven't smiled this hard in years.

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06-23-2005, 12:59 PM

Posted By: ChadI tell you what. I'll sell somebody my autograph for a thousand bucks and then I promise I'll never sign another one ever again. I'll even sign an office used undershirt to make things refractor-tastic. Think of it, you'll own a one of a kind item! A bargain! --Chad

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06-23-2005, 01:08 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineDAVIS, YOUR ARE A FELLOW IOWAN??? GLENN, WHAT'S THE JOKE? DID I MISS SOMETHING? KEEP ON SMILING, GLENN. I WANT YOU, AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD TO DOUBT ME, SO THEN I CAN THROW IT RIGHT BACK IN YOUR FACES.WHICH, ALL IN DUE TIME, I WILL. GUARANTEED. BY THE WAY, THE MOTHER TERESA AUTO. ON EBAY STATES THAT IT'S A COPY OF A SIGNED PHOTO. WHAT I HAVE IS A SHORT NOTE SIGNED BY HER. T-206 COLLECTOR, LETS HERE WHAT YOU HAVE GOT IN YOUR COLLECTION. HELL, YOUR PROBABLY SOME BABY BOOMER WHO HAD YOUR CARDS HANDED DOWN TO YOU FROM POPS! RIGHT??? OR YOU PROBABLY HAVE SOME CUSHY, OFFICE JOB THAT PAYS YOU HIGH SIX-FIGURES A YEAR TO DO SQUAT, SO YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO BUY PREWAR CARDS...... RIGHT??? WHICH ASSESSMENT IS CORRECT? BEST REGARDS, ADAM J. MORAINE

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06-23-2005, 01:13 PM

Posted By: will watsonok, i finally read through the whole thread. Adam Morraine, you might have a nice collection and a good portfolio, but quotes like "My personal opinion is that PSA 1's,2's,3's are not even worth the plastic holders they are slabbed in, much less the amount of money these "collectors" spend on them" tell me that you either know very little about the hobby, very little about investing, or both. from an investment standpoint, low grade cards are probably the safest bet. the higher the grade, the higher the volatility. especially taking in to account the "Set Registry" aspect. when investing in high grade cards, the card itself is not the only "investment." the numerical grade, and low population, is also a huge selling point. and ask any seller of high grade cards, and you'll get the same response - you can double your money on some cards, and get hosed on others. and when investing in high grade low pop cards, the longer you sit on them, the riskier your investment becomes. pop reports will invariably increase over time, usually at a faster pace than new collectors coming in to the hobby wanting to purchase them. i've seen several low pop 60's cards that used to sell for $1000 each - and now that the big spenders have acquired them, they sell for a few hundred tops. it's a total crapshoot. from an investment standpoint, that seems like an incredibly risky proposition. edit: please stop typing in all caps. it's annoying. you can get your point across just as well typing words in lower case.

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06-23-2005, 01:17 PM

Posted By: T206Collector$250 tops? The woman lived 86 years. How many of these do you think she signed? <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14433&item=6540044900&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14433&item=6540044900&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW</a> And Teddy Roosevelt for under $1,000? <a href="http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?documentid=32692&start=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?documentid=32692&start=1</a> Now what else do you have? We're still quite a ways from $100,000....

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06-23-2005, 01:23 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineWould you guys prefer if I were to puchase some T-206,Playball,or Goudey cards in MINIMUM VG condition. Would that appease this board? T-206 Collector, PAGES of history isn't even a registered UACC dealer. Therefore I would not even think about purchasing there "Mother Teresa" autograph. HISTORY for sale IS in fact, a registered dealer. Keep in mind, the Roosevelt letter is for DIRECT SALE, its NOT up for bids at Christies, Sothebys, or Mastronet. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine p.s. STILL waiting to hear what you have T-206. How did YOU obtain your collection? Pops? or 6 figure, cushy, do- nothing office job?

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06-23-2005, 01:24 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...if you would list the T-206, Goudey and Play Ball cards you own that are in better than VG condition. And, no, your 1933 Goudey Lajoie doesn't count...

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06-23-2005, 01:25 PM

Posted By: Tim NewcombYawn. Big yawn. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119554349.JPG">

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06-23-2005, 01:30 PM

Posted By: GregI would be satisfied with some clear scans of the Real Estate section of a Greenwich CT paper, I think I need to move up in the world to throw my status in to someones face. My cards are better too. GB

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06-23-2005, 01:32 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineLets here what you got Don Newcombe, I mean Tim Newcombe (any relation, by the way?) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 01:33 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorAlthough I primarily collect T206 cards, I do have a stray card here and there from other sets. In fact, I too have a 1953 Topps Mantle in SGC 3 condition. I was wondering if your Mantle was in better condition, and if so, I'd like to see a scan (or at least a PSA/SGC/GAI certificate number). <a href="http://www.sgccardregistry.com/images.asp?cardid=21261&usetid=1129" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.sgccardregistry.com/images.asp?cardid=21261&usetid=1129</a>

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06-23-2005, 01:35 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineGreg, homes in Greenwich, CT START at nearly 1 million. type in Greenwich, Ct real estate in goggle search. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraiine Hell, Bobby Bonilla and George Foster live there. I have wrote to both of them. SORRY T-206, no digital cam or scanner. T-206 was it pops, or cushy 6 figure office do-nothing job that got you yor cards?

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06-23-2005, 01:40 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorIt is remarkable to me to hear about someone who dreams to sell his priceless collection of baseball sneakers to live there. Only in Iowa, I suppose. And I have purchased my baseball card collection with money earned in a demanding office job in New York City. It's probably easier than milking cows in Iowa, but it's still pretty grueling in its own right... And I am a ripe old 32 years old, just since June 16. And you can peruse my SGC graded T206 cards at the set registry section of their website. Now that you know my last name, you're sure not to miss it...

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06-23-2005, 01:42 PM

Posted By: will watson"How did YOU obtain your collection? Pops? or 6 figure, cushy, do- nothing office job?" why does it matter?

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06-23-2005, 01:44 PM

Posted By: GlennAdam, The joke is as follows: In the paragraph immediately following the one in which you are quoted as saying "My No. 1 goal in life is to have a multimillion-dollar investment portfolio before the age of 50," you are quoted also to have said, "I prefer to collect vintage baseball stuff that dates from the 1950s and 1960s...the innocent days of the hobby, when baseball stars played for the love of the game and not the multimillion-dollar contracts." The implication is that you have great admiration for people who do not share your own values SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they do not share your values. Were these in fact consecutive responses you gave in the interview, or, as I thought when I read it, do you think the reporter or editor is trying to make you look silly?

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06-23-2005, 01:45 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...because someone challenged him on his income source. It wasn't me, but I'm not ashamed I have an office job that affords me an opportunity to purchase T206 cards now and again. Also, I have made shrewd baseball card purchases and sales on ebay that have made me a Power Seller (ebay ID: t-206collector). Unlike Mr. Moraine, who spends $122 on fake Lajoie cards and then throws them away.

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06-23-2005, 01:46 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineGreg, are you from C-A-L-I-F-I-R-N-I-A- OR C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A- (Check your member profile, there "COOL ONE" or go back to elementary school to learn the correct spelling of your homestate. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 01:52 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineThen T-206 colletor, you can attest to the fact that Greenwich, CT is one of the most affluent communities in the United states.Where a lot of well-know individuals live..... correct? (Much to Greg's chagrin) What did you expect me to do with the Lajoie? Keep the damn thing? It's not as if $122.50 is going to break me anytime soon.I contribute that much to a ROTH IRA EVERY MONTH Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 01:55 PM

Posted By: Tim NewcombGetting sad now. Adam has begun to call other people on their spelling/typing errors. Adam, you might want to check back through your own messages crowing about all the famous people you "have wrote to" before making any more such observations. And by the way, my collection is largely those beautiful low-grade cards you disparage-- which make me very happy. Why don't you try to find a board about vintage cards as investments. Maybe the PSA board would work for you (hint, hint)............

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06-23-2005, 01:58 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineTim, I have wrote to baseball players using Jack Smallings autograph handbook. (www.smallingautographs.com) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 01:58 PM

Posted By: T206Collector....is hardly groundbreaking news. Keep on collecting those PSA 4-10's and you may one day save enough money to purchase a round trip ticket from Des Moines to LaGuardia Airport in NYC, where you might just have enough left over for train rides to Greenwich and back to the airport. You'd probably have to get a connecting flight in Chicago, though, since I don't think Iowa has runways large enough to accomodate planes to fly you directly to the East Coast. Now let's hear about your $100,000 collection. What pre-war cards do you have in PSA 4 or better condition?

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06-23-2005, 02:01 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...are only available to people with incomes less than $100,000. So, where, pray tell, are you getting all this money to purchase your $1,000,000 collection?

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06-23-2005, 02:07 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI have already listed by PSA graded cards in an earlier post. I have only been collecting prewar for several months here's what I have. a dozen T-206's (including Crawford batting, Huggins port, rest commons, all chases' magie) Magie is corrected version though. 1941 Playball Mel Ott, 1934-1936 batter-ups of Hornsby and Cochrane. That's about all that I can think of right now, though. Without having to go through my cards and dig them out. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine ALL would grade vg, with the exception of Ott, he would probably grade ex/mt+ it's a real beauty

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06-23-2005, 02:07 PM

Posted By: GregThere are no cowfields in Greenwich are there? Did George Foster sell you any of his old shoes? That should get you closer to your $1mil goal...then you can trade your collection to get that house you think is so great and rub elbows with neighbors who think you're a hayseed. You're making my day! Lets see some scans from that fabled "Iowa collection". To "talk" Mother Teresa and not "walk" Mother Teresa is a crime in CT. GB

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06-23-2005, 02:10 PM

Posted By: leonI don't know whether I should just delete this thread or ask everyone to use their full names.....as per board policy. Any posts after this one, in this thread, really need to have some first and last names by them.....thanks

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06-23-2005, 02:15 PM

Posted By: T206Collector....and they made fun of my last name!

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06-23-2005, 02:15 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineWell, T-206 here is goes. I have been raised by my grandparents my entire life. My grandfather passed away Feb. of 2001 (diabetes) I have a GREAT disposable income, as I still live at home with my grandmother, and have minimal bills. (I pay water, cable, ADT home security, groceries, property taxes) My grandparents have lived in the same home since 1950. The house is paid for. The house wii be mine when my grandmother passes, which means I will NEVER have to buy a house or pay a mortage. (the house has NEVER been mortaged) I work 40-45 hours a week, as well.Hence, how I can afford to make these purchases. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine p.s. I also have custody of my daughter, as well. Partial apologies to Paul Mifsud, for calling him Paul MILFSTUD (I would not be complaining about that one though)

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06-23-2005, 02:20 PM

Posted By: leonI took care of that post....any other derogatory comments will be deleted as well. Anymore posts in this thread without first and last name will be deleted too....and I am about a click away from getting rid of this thread....I would have already but it's slightly amusing..... Thanks for your understanding.....

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06-23-2005, 02:25 PM

Posted By: quanthis thread is great! it's like a male soap opera (whatever that means)... to keep it on topic i would reiterate that alot of what people collect here are so scarce that even a G or VG item is considered high end, if they ever do come up. quannimir (low-end collector personified)

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06-23-2005, 02:34 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI may oust Mr. Mint, and offically have the title of "Longest Bashed Thread" Just because I think, PSA 1,2,3 are hardly worth collecting. Geez, have you guys have seen what these cards look like.(someone post me some scans of PSA 1,2,3)Would any of the major auction houses/auctions want them in there auctions? With the exception of The Ruth, or T-206 wagner. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 02:37 PM

Posted By: JohnAdam; You’re getting upset because you feel people are suggesting you collect stuff other than what you’re proud of right? I don’t blame you, you should be proud of what you have. As should each and every collector here. However Adam by saying how silly people are by purchasing low to mid-grade cards is just a nasty a thing to say, your basically telling them they don’t know how to collect which is very rude. I’m embarrassed about my collection compared to some of the collections here, I wouldn’t have the balls to throw down like you have, saying I have one of the top collections, regardless of what state I’m in. And the attitude and the way you have done it has taken away from your collection which is a shame, because I’m sure it’s very nice. Adam people buy items for the fun of it believe it or not. I bought a nice car a year or two ago, I will guarantee you I will lose money on the deal when all said and done. But I don’t care. I have a (Small) bass boat I sink money into all the time, because I enjoy fishing not because I plan on becoming a professional bass fisherman or selling the boat for a profit. People collect cards for the same reason. Be proud of your stuff man, but don’t tell everyone here how there wasting their fun money by doing something they love and enjoy. I may be too old to post on this topic as I turned 30 last year. I had most of my collection by the time I was 19, and before anyone throws down. I came from a regular working class family and collected with little or no budget. Three yrs ago I bought my first 2 cards that were over the 5k mark, and I felt every bit of the 5k. Do I have a good job now (yes) do I plan on spending more money (yes) will I retire a millionaire (No) well at least not from baseball cards.

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06-23-2005, 02:45 PM

Posted By: Josh K.man this is a great thread - personally, let me add this - I have the greatest collection in the room in which I am currently typing. Adam - there are some very nice 1,2 and 3 grade cards if you search hard enough. Unfortunately I am out of town and cant post the scan, but I have an sgc 30 or 40 (cant remember now) e121 eddie collins with four of the sharpest corners you will ever see. It looks like like a 9 and likely would be if not for an imperceptible wrinkle across the back of the card. It is one of the many nice examples of a low grade card that I own.

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06-23-2005, 02:46 PM

Posted By: warshawlawSome of the stuff makes me LMAO which I really need today (having a back problem). Lemme see if I can recap: Adam, Jr. from IA who lives with his grammy and earns a bodacious enough living to put money into a Roth IRA has a few vintage cards and suddenly is enough of an investment guru to tell people who've been collecting for 10-20-30 or more years and who spend five figures per auction that only high grade slabbed stuff is worth investing in and that cards in low grade are worthless as investments. He then insists that this is true despite wave after wave of advanced collectors who collect these "worthless" items posting their contrary opinions and willingness to purchase those "worthless" items. Adam, Jr., three things you will learn over time: (1) There is always someone out there smarter and better funded than you, (2) It pays to keep an open mind, and (3) Try not to take yourself so seriously; if you blow a gasket before you're 50 it won't matter how much your portfolio is worth because you won't be able to spend it. Good luck on your quest to be a millionaire...Somehow, I think it's gonna be interesting

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06-23-2005, 02:52 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineSorry Warshaw I did not go to law school, and I do make the deep, six-figures you make. (aren't you the attorney who defends Corporations? or is that Josh?) I had the pleasure to email Josh Krasner several days ago. I have a lot of respect for him) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine John (wonkaticket) Your post hit the nail on the head. THANK-YOU! Also, I checked out your web site,AWESOME cards. I LOVED the Anson N300!

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06-23-2005, 03:04 PM

Posted By: dstudebaI have enjoyed this thread thoroughly. The last paragraph of warshawlaw's post is the total and utter truth. D. Studebaker

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06-23-2005, 03:15 PM

Posted By: Adam J. Moraine"The last paragraph of Warshaw's post is the total and utter truth". Is that a fact, Mr. Studebaker, or your and Warshaw's opinions? PLEASE provide me, EVIDENCE that will support your claims. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 03:17 PM

Posted By: joe brennanAll I can say if I wanted to listen to children spout about asperations, I can listen to my own 15 year olds. Adam, Portfolio and money, will not make you happy. And bragging about what you will have, makes no one else happy. I'd stick to collecting and enjoying. Trust me, little things in life are what will make you happy, not a big house or a bankroll. You may not see it now, but 1 day you will. BTW, I totally enjoy my T206's in any condition. out "I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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06-23-2005, 03:17 PM

Posted By: Daniel BrettaIn the immortal words of Thomas Paine "Time makes more converts than reason" I think we ought to let time do it's job and leave Adam be. I don't think any amount of reasoning is going to convert this young fella. Adam, good luck in your quest to be a millionaire. I don't think that is an unworthy goal, but be careful how you tread on other people in your quest. Dan

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06-23-2005, 03:18 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBoy, this is a funny thread but it really is reaching full maturity. My thoughts to all concerned: 1) Youth is wasted on the young. 2) Adam, we all appreciate your lofty goals. And most of us appreciate your relatively young age in our responses. I don't think you meant any ill will. 3) Should your collection generate hundreds of thousands of dollars someday, you'll have no shot living in Greenwich, CT. The garages go for 500K and a decent size, 4000 square foot house costs between 2.5-3 million bucks. 4) Being a millionaire by the time you are 50 will not necessarily make you rich. I was a millionaire by the age of 30. I'm 40 now and I don't feel rich. Things cost more than they used to. Remember when Dr. Evil threatened mayhem on the world unless he was paid "1...millllion dollars!" That was a joke in the movie referencing the falling value of the dollar over time. It was funny because it was true. 5) Unless you have incredible luck, the chances of you making any serious, serious cash in life will rest in your day job. It's the day job that allows people to buy expensive cards. 6) Adam, be nice and more sensitive to others concering their life choices and finances. There will always be someone richer than you and happier than you. You wouldn't want them ridiculing you. And money does not make the man. Trust me on this one: life is short and focusing just on money makes for a hollow, empty life. 7) Don't treat baseball cards as a money-making venture. It takes away all the joy from the collecting much like betting on ball games takes away from the pure enjoyment of the sporting event. I started collecting cards as a small boy and I've just been blessed with twins. I'm more excited about giving them the actual cards I collected as a child than I am about giving them my top ten PSA registry sets from the 50s, each worth more than a new Corvette. Ok, those are the tips for the day. Now can we lock this thread?

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06-23-2005, 03:20 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineThank-you, for your posts Mr.Lichtman and Mr. Bretta. I appreciate it. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 03:33 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineDear mr. Luckey, Please go ahead and lock this thread. I have already expressed enough angst, and voiced MY opinions concerning PSA 1,2,3, more than enough, already. Thank-you, to Mr. Bretta,and John Mc Daniel for you kind words and Mr. Lichtman, for your support, and belief in myself achieving my # 1 goal in life, To become a millionaire by age 50. To all I offended, an apology to all who were offended by my views. SORRY! best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 03:43 PM

Posted By: leonI would lock it but I think you recovered fairly nicely AND I don't want to "not" ( I know a double negative ) let folks voice an opinion. I am 43 and boy do I remember being in my 20's. A whole lot of times I stuck my foot square in my mouth. I still do but less often. I remember saying things like you have said in this thread. Even though I am sure you meant no harm they just don't look (or sound) right. Becoming a millionaire by the time you are 50 is a nice goal. As pointed out the older you get the less that will matter. You don't need to believe me but trust me it's true. I work some long hours now (when I am not moderating) and my favorite thing in life is going home to my wife and 8 yr old. I told my wife I have to work late tonight and she was disappointed because my little 8 yr old girl didn't get to play with me last night and won't get to much tonight. That's what's important in life....at least to me....now if I could just find an oval framed D380, even in a 1 condition, I would be real happy. regards

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06-23-2005, 04:00 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineDear Mr. Luckey, I understand perfectly well. I ended up in a cutody battle with my ex-girlfriend, which lasted 17 months. I were awarded the case on Feb.18,2005. I am now raising our two year old daughter, Abigail Charlotte Moraine. BELIEVE ME, I went through 17 months of pure hell. But if Abby didn't matter to me, I would not have fought like hell, for her in order to give her the life that she deserves. Despite the fact, it cost me 13K in attorneys' fees, it was very well worth it. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 04:01 PM

Posted By: dstudeba1) Warren Buffett is smarter and more well funded than you are. 2) If there is someone out there smarter then you, you have something left to learn and need an open mind to learn it. 3) Article on workaholic scientists dying young; not that I am accusing you of being a scientist or an academic. <a href="http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/03/content_345190.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/03/content_345190.htm</a> On a positive note, thank heavens there is still so much for everyone to learn. If one knew everything, life would be pretty boring.

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06-23-2005, 04:22 PM

Posted By: Bob Rousseaukinda reminds me of the scene in that Steve Martin movie where- flush with his new found wealth- he warns a waiter "And don't go bringing us any of that OLD wine! We want the NEW stuff!" I don't devote as much of my spare $$ to collecting as the majority here do, but I share an interest in old cards. Old, as in pre WW I. And I love seeing what people have to show, and hear about their collecting trials and tribulations, and learning about pre WW I players and the early history of the game from the cards people talk about. Since most of the threads here are devoted to pre WW I, I doubt there will be much of interest to you on this site, Adam. I've got some T206s that are in great condition- and I marvel at them, cause I think "How did this card stay in this great condition after all those years?" But what I most like thinking about when I look at them (and this is also the case for the ones that aren't in all that great shape)- is how some guy go this out of a tobacco pack nearly 100 years ago, and now here I am looking at it. What did he do for work? What did he do for leisure? What kind of car did he drive? What did the shop he bought the pack at look like? What made him set this aside- was it the first that he decided to hold onto? Did he go see Ty Cobb and Walter Johnson play? If my goal was to make as much money as I could in as little time as I could from investments, I'd invest in real estate. The $2,500 Babe Ruth cut signature card that you have might double in 10 years if you're lucky (they're becoming more and more common each year). A good piece of property in 10 years should get you much more than $2,500 more. Adam, you're going to inherit your grandmother's house? Rather than just waiting for that to fall into your lap, why don't you get rid of your cards and buy property- if accruing as much jack as possible is actually your goal. As I recall, Barry Halper had a job of some kind with the Yankees organization and got a lot of items autographed through that job. But it wouldn't surprise me that if he had put the time and financial resources he did into the hobby into real estate, he probably would've made a fortune on that- very likely a bigger fortune. From what I gather, he wasn't trying to do that- he was collecting the material cause he loved the history of it all- not cause he was thinking "CHA CHING". Buying cards for me is not about investment- it's about buying works of art and holding onto a piece of history. And that art will increase in value somewhat, but again- if investment was my primary goal even in buying art, I would buy paintings.

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06-23-2005, 04:45 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineMr. Rousseau, Thank-you, for your post. As I mentioned in the featured article, I DO NOT sell or trade any of my cards. I just can not do it right now. When I look at my cards , I think of my grandfather and I going to card shows,spending time together, and such. The way you feel about the T-206's is the same way I feel about our house. Five generations of my family has lived in this house. I think about the history of the home, as well. it's an older home. (built in 1886) EVERYTHING is original, and NOTHING has been restored. I absolutely LOVE IT! I have hopes of SOMEDAY finding N172's and N162's in the attic. I have not looked...YET (LOL) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 04:46 PM

Posted By: warshawlawI mostly litigate construction and real estate cases on behalf of cheated consumers. Lately because of the run-up in real estate prices I am doing a lot of neighbor dispute cases over boundaries--land is so expensive that people are expanding existing homes rather than buying new ones and that extra few feet is really getting to be important. Have gun, will travel. I second the views expressed here as to the importance of family. I wanted to be a millionaire by 40, retired at 50. Whoops! Once the baby came along I decided to be home for dinner by 6:00 every evening with my daughter and wife unless some A-hole judge refused to let me out of a settlement conference. I could earn more if I worked more hours but if I don't have the time enjoy my family and home, why bother?

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06-23-2005, 04:53 PM

Posted By: Brian<img src="http://home.insightbb.com/~scantland/10779Wagner_1_mk.jpg">

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06-23-2005, 05:02 PM

Posted By: jay behrensAdam, impressive collection for a 24 y.o., but at 24 I had a collection that would have put your's to shame. And it was almost all vintage cards. And no, I do not have that collection anymore. There really is no point in arguing over what is the best way to invest. Each person needs to decide what they are comfortable with. I haven't seen anything you've listed in your collection that warrants a $100k valuation. My insurance agent told be to insure my collection for $25k even though it might be worth $10k at most. Insured value and real value are two very different things. Just to give you an idea of what kind of money can be made on "crappy" cards, Since I returned to the hobby in 2002 I have maticulously tracked the purchase and sale price of every card I've owned. I currently have 208 cards in my collection, including the m101-5 Thorpe and 30 HOFers including Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Matty, Johnson and others. Most of my "commons" are players from tough sets like Old Mill, Contentnea, etc. Total cost to date, subtracting sales from purchases is $1489.36. Guess those beat up, crappy old cards aren't worth buying at all. Jay My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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06-23-2005, 06:08 PM

Posted By: Anson LytleThis is my thread that got hijacked so I'll chime in again. I won't jump in with "Here it goes" as it's starting to sound cliche. Adam, you have some nice stuff, no qualms about it. I can appreciate your opinion even though it's different than many on here, including myself. There's no harm in you chasing after higher graded stuff. I think that a lot of the experienced folks on here are trying to point out that PSA 3 T206 Wagners are a VERY solid investment as are PSA anything caramel Cobbs. Why? Because there are far fewer than any of the autographs that you own. If we all knew what the best LONG TERM investments were, we would have worked Wall Street 20 years ago. The truth of it is, people know a lot more about cards and other collectibles. The potential for the items we collect is a huge question mark. Many of us collect what we like because we can't afford to get lost in the guessing of it all. Beanie Babies were a great investment five years ago. Needless to say, there are a lot of people stuck with bins of stuffed beanbags rotting away under their beds. It's great that you're proud of your collection. We all are. I just hope that you don't feel that you need to boast about your collection to feel better about yourself. The value is in the person, not in what they own. Enjoy your collection for what it is, not for how much it impresses others. If it ends up being worth a lot someday, that's great. But be able to enjoy it even if it doesn't. BTW, I have the best looking SGC E101 Cobb you've ever seen! Anson

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06-23-2005, 06:21 PM

Posted By: joe brennan What a great question!!! Who was the first to hold the T206's I now treasure so much. Did he trade with other collectors that enjoyed the HOBBY as much as we do. Did he have a favorite player that he was hoping to get? Was he asking his friends to save the cards for him? Did he carry his favorite in the inside pocket of his suit coat and pull it out at a ball game and show it to the guy sitting next to him? I will wonder these things every time I look at them. Out "I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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06-23-2005, 06:32 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanThe most shocking thing I've read on this thread is the fact that Adam spent only 13K on attorneys' fees during a 17 month litigation. Adam, here's another reason you should strongly consider avoiding Greenwich: it's close to NYC and lawyers like me. If I had my claws in you for 17 minutes -- not 17 months -- it would cost you 13K....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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06-23-2005, 06:37 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineGreat Question, Joe. You are right, when we hold T-206's in our hands we are holding baseball history in our hands. I am holding something that my great-grandfather could have held. When I hold my T-206's, and my Batter-ups of Cochrane, and Hornsby I could be holding something that a war hero could have held in there hands. THAT is what I repect about our HOBBY. Joe, could you PLEASE post a scan of your E-101 Cobb? I would love to see it! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 06:44 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineJeff, My ex-girlfriends' court appointed, legal aid attorney thought he were cocky a!@# also, I shredded him to pieces at our custody trial, which lasted two days. He had the nerve to come up to me, after the two day trial ended, extended his hand for me to shake it. I gave him my half smile, turned my back and walked away from him.leaving him with his hand extended, I would have done the same to you, as well.But he tried to portray me as something other than, a concerned father, who was concerned for his daughters'safety and well being.IT DID NOT WORK! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine 13k for 17 minutes Jeff! I bet you live in a massive estate in the Hamptons, huh? Or the affluent Westchester county,

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06-23-2005, 06:53 PM

Posted By: joe brennanAdam, That was Anson who had the Cobb, but if he would like to send it to me, ( I'll pay shipping) I will be happy to post of scan of it. HeeHee. Out "I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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06-23-2005, 06:54 PM

Posted By: DJI just read this roller coaster and was looking for more horrid scans of low graded cards to perhaps award a winner of some sort. Nasty 1's and 10's! The thread suddenly stopped and a 'mine is bigger' competition started and I can understand the early twenties. I started collecting at eight and Halper was my role model many, many years later and I still have visions of my own part of a Mastro catalog dedicated to my collection like Jeff Morey with my mug and a smiling image of me holding a game used Clemente All-Star bat. This of course is 2035. Touching tale of families as priorities on both Leon and Adam's part. I'm not there, not near but can imagine my collecting style changing once a little one is rolling around the carpet and I have to purchase bulk diapers instead of adding to my T206 collection. Nice turned thread direction. DJ

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06-23-2005, 07:03 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI stand corrected, ANSON, could you please post the scan of YOUR E-101 Cobb. I would love to see it. thanks! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 07:27 PM

Posted By: Anson LytleIt's not as nice as Lyle's 5 but it's mine and I love it! <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119576046.JPG">

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06-23-2005, 07:37 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineThank-you, Anson. Anyway you look at it, it's STILL a Cobb, in my book. I can understand your guys' point of view.I have a question, How does one determine a "value" for a PSA 1,2,3, when selling or buying? since there is no price guide pricing (that I know of)for low grade cards (i.e. PSA 1,2,3,'s) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-23-2005, 07:47 PM

Posted By: Todd SchultzI'm just your basic owe about as much as I make type guy, but I love my cards. I also know that no amount of money can buy grace or class. I also know that when I'm in a hole I don't go looking for a bigger shovel. Go and make your money--whatever floats your boat. I'm just glad I got to post on a thread that discussed the Morraine collection--my life is now complete.

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06-23-2005, 08:25 PM

Posted By: LyleThat is a great looking Cobb and one of the rarest Carmel Cobbs there are...At last check , only ten have ever been graded by PSA with only five graded higher !

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06-23-2005, 09:18 PM

Posted By: Kenny ColeFirst, let me say that I agree with the majority of people who have posted when it comes to the issue of the "value" of lower condition cards, whether they by PSA, GAI, SGC or (horrible of all horribles) RAW cards. I could say a lot more about that but I won't. In any event, those who believe that cards in PSA grades 1-3 have lots of potential down the road have now made that point, made it again, made it some more, and then re-emphasized it just to make sure that it wasn't missed. It is now sort of a piling-on situation. I think everyone who has read this thread gets it. At some point, hopefully in the near future, I suggest that Adam might want to re-examine some of his priorities. His posts make it appear that he may be missing out on some of the more important things in life. However, whether or not to do so is his decision. Ultimately, who cares? I suspect that his card buying habits are going to have a minimal effect, if any, on those of mine or anyone else. Kenny Cole

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06-23-2005, 11:41 PM

Posted By: Matthew JacksonMore of you need to listen to Adam M & get on the PSA4 or above bandwagon. Anything less is not worth having. Do not throw away your 3's and lower though, just forward them on to me <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Collect what you want (as long as it not something I want) & enjoy them. Simple as that. One of my beat-up 1's (recently traded it so it did have a little value!) <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/hotdogmj71/e902gibson.JPG" height=600 width=400> and my very favorite 1, which in just a few months will be upgraded to a 2! <img src="http://www.viaboomimage.com/is.php?i=5307&img=picture_422.jpg" height=400 width=500 border="0">

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06-24-2005, 12:14 AM

Posted By: Scot Adam, The PSA-1 York Caramel Gehrig you were refering to, is one of only three known to exsist, to date. Probabely a very good investment. Some cards don't come around any nicer than a VG grade or lower.

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06-24-2005, 05:00 AM

Posted By: AlanLeon -- This post is great entertainment. Please don't lock it !!!

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06-24-2005, 07:09 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis It really amazes me how this thread started with some Fairly- ugly old cards encapsulated in plastic, to further preserve their "ugliness", and has strayed essentially into a bashing contest of a Forum member.

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06-24-2005, 07:28 AM

Posted By: AnsonBeauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have yet to see anything ugly on this post. While I didn't anticipate the thread heading in the direction that it did, I will remind you that it was the one board memeber who made the "loose" remark about low-grade cards. This board is a lot of things, one of them being an education tool. While some of the comments didn't approach it from a conservative, politically-correct tone, most addressed some ignorance regarding many of the things that we collect. There is more to vintage collecting than T206s, card slabbing, and auction houses. If you're going to jump in on someone's post like a barking dog and put people's collections down, be prepared for some feedback. Thanks to Leon for letting people bring foward their rebuttals.

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06-24-2005, 07:37 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisAdam, I can relate to your bringing up your daughter as a single- parent. And, your hopes of retiring at age 50. I have done both. My wife an I were divorced amicably back in 1972 (no lawyers were involved to screw things up). She wanted to go back to Maine after 7 years of marriage; you could call it a "7-year itch". Both of us (500 miles apart) brought up our daughter, Zoe. And, when Zoe married, I helped her bring up her son, Ron; when his father died. So, I appreciate and admire you as a respon- sible father. At 51, I retired from a very prestigious Electronics Communi- cations Co. My conservative investments in real estate and company stocks allowed me to retire at this relatively young age. My sportscards collecting over the years is different than most members of this Forum. I love the long-term challenge of com- pleting BB card sets. I need not elaborate, but my collection spans 1888 - 1967 (N162 Goodwins - 1967 Topps). And, the other aspect of my collecting habit, that differ from most here, is that I dislike the Grading Card phenomena. I think in the long run it will prove to have had a negative impact on our hobby. Already, I observe how it has had a diminishing effect on set collectors, these past 10 years. God Bless you....Adam

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06-24-2005, 08:12 AM

Posted By: Mark TylickiAdam – First and foremost, I envy you for having a daughter and being a father. Now that is truly admirable! Perhaps someday you’re dream will come true and posh neighborhoods await you. I sincerely wish you and Abigail the best of luck. You mention the beautiful home you live in. Cherish it with all your heart and value your grandparent’s hard work. I purchased mine with hard earned cash at the age of 23 without help of any kind. Approximately 30K worth of modern cards were sold to cover the down payment. Selling hundreds of ’92-‘97 Bowman rookie cards to do so was one of the best decisions I ever made. Go Vintage! My parents came to the states as immigrants from Poland in 1972. My father was a hard working cabbie, painter, auto mechanic, and tool machinist (Not all at once like the Jamaicans in Living Color but at different times - ha, ha). My mother busted her tail keeping the kids in line while learning English, cleaning toilets, and taking stupid Polish jokes right and left. I was out of the house at 18, experiencing life and all it's altered forms in Boulder, Colorado. I was accepted as a pre-medicine student but studying unfortunately became a pastime. Mistakes were made then and together we still make them today. That’s OK. (Gosh, that sounds like Stewart Smalley). Eventually, I earned a minor in Chemistry, a double major in Anthropology and Chicano Studies, followed by a MBA in 2001. Today, I’m managing SAP software projects and having FUN (forgive me for the caps Will). Yes, I’m very proud but it’s not because of my collection. I value my place amongst peers. The moral of this drunken story – well, we all have one. Study the marketplace, build friendships, and value education. Inherited wealth can easily be lost without book and/or street knowledge. In our world, spelling and proper grammar are more admirable skills than owning an autograph of Honus Wagner. We should not be less informed of our language than peoples abroad. It pisses me off when some foreigner knows more about our language/country than our own citizens. I’m proud to be an American – thank you Brian (warrior1978) and all who have served. Bla, bla, bla – it’s time to return to the subject of the thread. Like some of the other collectors on this board, I love my GOOD Hartnett as much as my PSA 9 Larry Doby. I believe both would be accepted by any auction house and command interest. In addition, dozens of collectors would love to own a GOOD E107 George Davis, a PR-FR Honey Boy Roush, or a ’36 WWG DiMaggio rookie card. Sorry guys but the wrinkled Bottomley RC is not for sale. I love these cards that you “would never own”. Please respect our collections. The stories behind a tattered collection of SGC 10s or complete NM-MT sets are equally passed on and shared by collectors. You might some day be fortunate enough to find an original Mayo Cut Plug hidden behind the walls of your vintage home (OK, not likely in Iowa but let’s pretend), partially eaten by a mouse but beautiful nonetheless. I acquired one of these from a construction worker in Maine. The Hugh Duffy was found while he was tearing down some walls. The story behind it was priceless. It was merely graded Authentic but any marketing guru could have made it the prize of a major auction with a carefully written story. Hugh was found amongst a mousetrap, an old penny, and dirt and grime with teeth marks and stains. I supplied a buyer with an incredible piece of American art in very poor condition that’s worthy of all the praise in the world. I’m positive it’s been the topic of plenty interesting conversations since. I now hope you understand how your posts were hurtful. Your apology is accepted and admired. I enjoy this board for the intelligent posts-the breadth of knowledge outside the hobby and within, and the camaraderie. There was a time when my first few posts on Net54 were rewarded with ridicule. For Pete’s sake (American expression that Poles don’t understand – help?), RustyWilly is a microcosm of our hobby. It’s about having fun. A gain here or there is a symptom of our addiction. Enjoying a thread this much is a reward. ------------------------------ MY COLLECTION: <a href="http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm</a>

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06-24-2005, 09:10 AM

Posted By: RayBNice post Mark. For the record: T-206's are just plain old magical to me. I cant say I've had this feeling with any other card in my hand (save perhaps T-3 Turkey Reds)and I've been collecting for 35+ years. I just wish I had started my humble T-206 quest a lot sooner. Seems to me that PSA 1,2,3 quality T-206 cards represent the way they ought to look. The warmth, the passion, and the magic of it's journey is right there for you to truly experience. The cards look and feel real. In a strange way, PSa 7,8 grade T-206's look too good, almost unreal. It's just the way I see it. The average collector (me, for instance), can only really aspire to this experience at the lowest of grade levels. I don't buy raw in this issue because I would like to know, at least, that my cards are authentic. Authenticity expectations are almost a pre-requisite of the internet commerce game we play so frequently today. My humble set beginnings, about 35 cards so far can be found on the PSA Registry under "Dings, Divots, Creases & Stains". That about says it all. I think I have the lowest GPA amongst active acquirers currently registered; and I'm proud of it. It's all about the fun...and the magic, anyway. RayBShotz

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06-24-2005, 09:23 AM

Posted By: identify7For the love of Pete Meaning: I am frustrated with this situation. Example: For the love of Pete, can we just pick a restaurant and stop searching? I am hungry. Origin: This phrase and phrases like "for Pete's sake" are euphemisms for the phrases "for the love of God/Christ" or "for God's/ Christ's sake" and hail from a time when those phases were considered blasphemous. Nowadays phrases like "for the love of god" are commonly used, but the euphemisms are still used. Why Pete? Most likely it is a reference to the catholic Saint Peter. Other phrases with similar origins are: "Zounds!" (archaic British slang), is a contraction of "christ's wounds", "oh my goodness" and "oh my gosh" for "oh my God", and "gosh darn it" for "God damn it" Thanks to Ron Akers

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06-24-2005, 09:24 AM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineTed and Mark, I thank-you, both for the well wishes, the positive hope and the belief in myself to capture my goals and dreams in life. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-24-2005, 09:38 AM

Posted By: Jim NovotnyRay I was just admiring your collection the other day (I love the set name) as it looks quite similar to mine (Im #38 on the registry as of today). Being a new collector, and one with a family of 3 aspiring baseball/softball players, all I can really affort to go after are 1-3s. I truely enjoy my collection, especially my Frank Chance yellow portrait which I purchased from Lee. It was my first HOF vintage card and it graded a PSA 3MK -Thanks Lee. I look at my cards as others in this thread do, as a piece of history - little works of art that someone years ago cherished. I am also amazed that these cards can last as long as they have and still be in any sort of presentable condition. So until I win the lottery or until my son makes the majors, its low grade vintage for me. Jim Novotny

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06-24-2005, 09:42 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisAnson, Do not mis-understand my comment. You initiated this thread and Adam Moraine responded with some valid comments. In my collecting experience these past 30 years, I've seen a lot of factors which have impacted the value of BB cards. In the late '70s when the economy was suffering (oil crises and high interest rates), this hobby was just starting to develop as a serious collectible. At the same time a lot of the Coin & Stamp dealers were coming into the BB card market. And in 1980, the Phila. Inquirer's front page featured 3 - 1952 Topps Mantles selling for $10,000. This, in a nutshell, is how things got "jump- started" in this hobby. And, by 1982, these same Mantles were selling at only $500 apiece! Before this, yes there were shows, and Beckett & Eckes had published their first Price Guide; but the BB card hobby was not a real nationwide phenomena. About 1985, the economy started improving (jobs were up, interest rates were down). This hobby, and many other collectibles, started flourishing because of the lower interest rates as investors were switching to better returns for their money. By the end of the '80s this hobby was well established as a very serious investment. Then in the early '90s the economy was weakening (and the 1994 BB strike) did "soften up" the values of sportscards. It took a while as the economy started improving and of course the growing popularity of auctions and the Grading Service increased. But, make no mistake, if the economy goes sour (another terrorist attack or whatever) these BB card values will fall. Hey, let's face it, the cardboard that depicts our favorite BB players, or sets, really has no intrinsic value. I shudder to think if I paid $5000 for an SGC 90 Cobb in 2005 and then falls to $50 in 2010. In the mid '70s that is about what you would pay to get this same Cobb. So, we have to consider Adam's first reponse to you as something to be taken seriously, instead of an excuse to make personal attacks at him (or others). As for my "Fairly-Ugly" BB cards commentary, hey I have many of such cards in in my collection.....you have to just lighten-up. I'm not trying to disparage anyone on this Forum or their collection. So get that straight.

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06-24-2005, 11:50 AM

Posted By: warshawlawAlways a possibiity with anything you buy. I have the Enron shares to prove it. There are only two guarantees in life: (1) death and taxes (2) anything I buy for big $$ on ebay will show up a week later for 1/2 the price. Don't take it so seriously; you only need money if you plan to live forever.

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06-24-2005, 12:02 PM

Posted By: Todd SchultzI'm not sure we read the same thread. Adam's first response, which you say we have to take seriously, was "My personal opinion is that PSA 1's,2's,3's are not even worth the plastic holders they are slabbed in, much less the amount of money these "collectors" spend on them." Since the price of a holder is about a dollar or two, that comment is idiotic. Since Adam knows many on this board collect low grade specimens, it is also inflammatory. Why should any deference be given to such tripe? Next, we hear how the auction houses would never promote low grade cards as a source of "big bucks", as if such was the goal of these board members and that auction houses are the only way for money to be made in this hobby--two more fallacies. Onward and upward--we're told how he has the biggest collection in Iowa, he's got grandiose plans of greatness, that others who collect had their cards handed down to them or have "cushy jobs where they don't do squat" (as if there was no toil or sacrifice getting to where people are today), that he's going "to have the last laugh", going to throw it back in people's faces, etc. Oh yeah, he makes play on another board member's name, challenges another member's spelling, more blather about how successful he is, a martyr reference (why has this turned into a bash me fest?) and then his I've got it rough because I'm a single parent spiel. Sorry, kid needs to grow up and stop punkin. He contributed nothing to the thread but to spout how he has it all figured out. In re-reading much of the thread, I think he got off light--real light.

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06-24-2005, 12:10 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorI have put my sharp tongue away only because I now recognize who Adam J. Moraine really is, someone who deserve pity as opposed to ridicule. It started to feel like we were all explaining to a child that Santa doesn't exist. I'd rather let Adam think that Greenwich, CT is Eden, that his collection is worth 20 times more than it really is and that being a millionaire is a laudible "life goal."

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06-24-2005, 12:13 PM

Posted By: ChadI think I spend too much time on the computer at work, but every message board I've ever run into has threads like this. It starts off innocent, then somebody trolls and people react to the troller and then other people with maternal istincts feel sorry for the troll and come to his defense. It makes you laugh, it makes you cry, etc. etc. In the end the trolls get the attention they want. I'm fairly new to this board, but this is one of the longest threads I've seen. That said, if anyone has any low grade pre-Castro Cuban cards they can't stand the ugliness of, I'll find them a good home. --Chad Johnson, owner of probably the weakest collections on this entire board unless you really like '87 Topps!

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06-24-2005, 12:24 PM

Posted By: JohnI love 87' Topps but only in PSA 1,2,3's. <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/websize/image006.jpg">

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06-24-2005, 12:24 PM

Posted By: identify7It is no big deal. It is a characteristic of being 24 (and three quarters). Some of them tho are in the MidEast and other undesireable pursuits, so that others can scoff at adults who have a hobby and do not consider that hobby as part of their portfolio.

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06-24-2005, 12:35 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJohn, how on earth did that card only grade a 3???? It's beautiful.

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06-24-2005, 12:45 PM

Posted By: Daniel BrettaChad, I don't think you can place Adam in the "troll" category. He obviously has a love for baseball (ie his volunteer work at the Feller museum), he has been a board member for a long time, he has a nice collection going. IMO he's just a young guy with aspirations for a better life. He made some stupid remarks and he caught hell for them. He has since apologized. To pile on any further is just running up the score. PS. If you wanna see what a troll is visit some usenet newsgroups.

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06-24-2005, 12:46 PM

Posted By: JohnThanks Jeff, I’ve passed on 6’s that didn’t look as good. I’ve been over it about 20 times with a loop (10x, 30x) spotless back, tiny ding lower right corner and a very tiny what looks like a line or wrinkle near his collar but is just a print line or surface imperfection not a crease. That’s all I can find you’re guess is as good as mine. Just another example of buy the card not the holder I guess.

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06-24-2005, 12:53 PM

Posted By: ChadYou're right about Troll being too harsh a term. I still think it was a kind of troll, but a mild one, for sure. I think we need a new word that could describe a 25% troll, 75% accidental foot in the mouth poster that's more humorous than anything else. A gnome? My thesaurus is woefully outdated when it comes to these situations. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> And yeah, I've seen some real sob's out there in cyber land. One good thing about the internet--it's confirmed what I've always suspected, that there are a lot of scary dudes out there in the shadows. --Chad

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06-24-2005, 03:00 PM

Posted By: Bob Rousseauterm I'd use for someone who ridiculed the collecting prefernces of 95% of the board here (you know, those people that dare to call themselves "collectors" even though they will pursue lower graded cards (I guess he was being polite by using the term "collectors" when less face it, anyone who collects lower grade cards (no matter what they are) is more of... a garbage man. If he's been around a long time, he must've noticed that "CHA CHING" as a goal was not going to get earn him many "attaboys" round here. I guess, at the very least, I would call such a person... in the wrong place. I'm not in the habit of insulting people- even in the 'anonymity' of cyberspace. But I also don't appreciate being insulted. Speaking of scary people out in the dark- I remember when I used to frequent the board a few years ago, there was that guy Doc something or other who used to brag about his purchases and collection (and how many women he could pick up at a massage parlor). I seem to recall he'd bought a bogus '52 Mantle in a PRO slab for a 'real' '52 Mantle price, and he was trying to resell it even though he knew it was bogus. But anyway- back to the cardboard... whew! that Huggins is a beauty...

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06-24-2005, 03:15 PM

Posted By: Judge DredWow!!! That's got to be one of the nicest looking 3's out there. Is there just the slightest of paper pulls on the bottom right corner? I have a 34 Goudey Vaughn that presents itself like a 6 but it has the slightest of paper pulls on the top border that is very small not very detectable to the casual observer. The card was returned as a 4. I looked that card over very carefully and sure enough - there it was, the defect that lowered the grade... No big deal, the card presents very well. I'd say that Huggins presents much nicer. Is there anything at all on the back that might have reduced the grade on the card?

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06-24-2005, 03:36 PM

Posted By: AnonymousThat Huggins is a beauty! Anyone ever crack open a slab only to resend it to that company (or another) and get a 'Big' difference? Massage Parlors and PRO labeled grading cards in the same story! Can't beat that! DJ

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06-24-2005, 03:43 PM

Posted By: identify7I really am sorry for characterizing the apparent error in judgement of one person as typical of the behavior of persons in their twenties. Certainly that is not true as evidenced by the boards behavior - which encompasses several individuals of that vintage. Also, please do not think that persons of my vintage (a 60+ newbie) feel negatively about those with in some cases less experience and perhaps a bit more exuberance. I treasure the younger persons who have either the hobby or its potential as an investment vehicle at heart, because at one time I feared that the vintage market would die with the baby boomers. I am pleasantly surprised that there is continued interest in the old players. As Seth always says: even at current levels, you can not beat the value of these cards. So I sincerely welcome and value all younger participants in this hobby - but where are the girls? Comeon now, us oldtimers are represented, quite aptly, by Julie (our left fielder).

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06-24-2005, 03:52 PM

Posted By: warshawlawNowhere is Eden if you spend half the year indoors so you don't freeze off your cojones. Try La Jolla, Laguna Beach or Santa Barbara. Malibu doesn't suck either.

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06-24-2005, 04:05 PM

Posted By: DJBoxing! I spent some time in So-Cal. What the hell is this soy milk? This tofu? Are these women made of plastic? I think the mayor was Dolph Lundgren! I do miss Coronado Beach though! <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> The east is for me! I simply didn't understand my surroundings. DJ

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06-24-2005, 04:26 PM

Posted By: Douglas DI'd like to point out, as a resident of Santa Barbara, California, that it an incredible place to be. And, it's a hotbed of sports collecting. : ) Douglas

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06-24-2005, 04:49 PM

Posted By: Judge DredLa Jolla, Laguna Beach or Santa Barbara. Malibu doesn't suck either. What about Rancho Santa Fe? I figure there will be a house for sale there soon if Randy "Duke" Cunningham gets his due. What the hell is this soy milk? It's a white hued tofu based beverage This tofu? It's seemingly taseteless soy based protein sold in blocks that are soft, firm, very firm and textured This stuff is purchased by the women of dow chemical (aka plastic women). Are these women made of plastic? Oh, but the plastic is so strategically placed. I think the mayor was Dolph Lundgren! Not in Southern California - maybe the middle or northern end. As a state we wouldn't settle for less than the greatest movie actors as governor (Reagan and Arnold - BOTH!!!!) I do miss Coronado Beach though! You can't touch a house in Coronado for under $750K or so. You could settle for a condo and be a wanna-be Coronadan. The Coronado beach is a good place to park your rear for an afternoon but the real fun is in PB, OB and even IB (not to mention many other sandy strips of land). You could sell an awful nice collection of cards and put a down payment on a home if you really wanted to get out of collecting cardboard. Sorry to get off topic. Now back on topic (sort of) - If I had a PSA1 T206 Wagner I'd trade it for a down payment on nice home in LaJolla (must be near the beach).

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06-24-2005, 05:08 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI didn't want to join in, but I would appreciate it if folks like Dred and Warshaw would keep their loose traps shut. SoCal is a hole. Pit. Armpit of America. Move to Greenwich. Hell move to New Haven. Just get out of here so I can move from IB up north to La Jolla. On cards, there will be a lot of PSA 1 extremely rare hot dog cards going up for sale in a couple of years when my wife finds that house for only a million in La Jolla or Coronado.

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06-24-2005, 05:20 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineOne again, thanks Ted Z. I do not consider myself a gnome or a troll. Kind of harsh, borderline brutal. Have I surpassed Mr. Mint, as "most bshed thread"yet? Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-24-2005, 05:47 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou did not initiate this thread, but you certainly "sparked" it. These posts have exceeded the Mr. Mint thread by at least 30 at this point. In fact this thread sets the record for the number of responses this year.

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06-24-2005, 05:50 PM

Posted By: AnsonTed, I'm not sure how the table turned where I'm the one with the forked tongue and the negaitve slant. I started this post to look at the large margin of difference between PSA 1 graded cards. Although there are pieces of Adam's posts that I can appreciate, he is the one that decided to take the confontational approach. I didn't insult him or resort to name calling. However, as we beat the dead horse again, I explained some of the misconceptions about what many of us like to collect. I appreciate the fact that you're sticking up for the odd man out on this thread, but don't paint me to be the jackhole on the board. I'm still chuckling about the 87' topps PSA 1,2, and 3 comment. I personally like to see them majorly trimmed and altered where they're ungradable. I may be poor now but I hope to be good to very good soon.

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06-24-2005, 05:54 PM

Posted By: warshawlawand cheaper too...

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06-24-2005, 06:53 PM

Posted By: Judge DredYes, Southern California is a pit. I'd highly advise that people not move here, let alone visit this sun baked bastion of the epitome of hell. It has lousy weather, ugly women and there are no worth while baseball card shows..... Sorry for getting off topic... I enjoyed the portion of this thread that dealt with the disparaging differences in cards graded SGC10, PSA1 or GAI1. The reference to a PSA1 card with a qualifier was great. Why put a qualifier on the lowest of the low....?

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06-24-2005, 06:53 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI do not believe I have been critical of you in my posts. I did use the term "ugly" in referring to some low grade cards and caught some flak from you and other posters. Judge Dred first used the term "ugliest cards" in his very first response to you, and he did not receive any critical comments. I would bet that his comment was just in jest; as was mine. Don't you think all of us are taking this all to personal? I am a new kid on the block here in this Forum. And, I really appreciate the free flow of Vintage card expertise and brainstorming that is a daily exercise among the members. And, especially the exchanges which result in resolving some old myths regarding certain cards, or sets, that have been a mystery in the hobby for as long as I can remember. I came to Adam M's defense simply because as a single parent myself I had an appreciation for his situation; and, his aspiration to retire at age 50, was something I had achieved. Its no more complicated than that.

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06-24-2005, 06:58 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineHell, I have beaten "the HOBBY Gods'" Mr. Mint and Mastro both in the same thread? AND recorded the longest (bashed)thread this year to date. I have etched my legacy in forum stone. Will I be inducted in the forum H.O.F.? Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine Judge dread has hit the nail on the head! That's what I was trying to ask and say. WHY put a qualifying grade on a card that has been wrote on, baked in the oven, squewed, pinholed, folded, scotched taped, miscut, flipped, traded, put in bike spokes,nailed, bent, folded, beat-to-death,chewed, and most cases digested, and crapped out, etc, etc, etc,?

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06-24-2005, 07:29 PM

Posted By: AnsonBut it's actually my thread.

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06-24-2005, 07:47 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineAnson, We BOTH defeated Mint and Mastro, and we will BOTH become inducted in the Forum H.O.F. as our legecies have been etched in forum stone. Kind of like co-M.V.P.'s so to speak. (a shared thread) the Anson/Moraine thread. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine p.s. Cap Anson, was born in Marshalltown, Iowa (an Iowa boy, whataya know)were you named after him? I am just curious, in asking this serious question.With all kidding aside.

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06-24-2005, 07:55 PM

Posted By: Judge DredI wrote the following: Ok, lets see who has the ugliest SGC10, GAI1 or PSA1... I'll start I then posted a picture of a hideous looking SGC10 card. That was the end of my post. The response fit the subject matter of the post. Subsequent posts had comments regarding cards with a grade of "1" and some posts had pictures inserted. It was all pretty much in line with the initial posting subject matter until a few disparaging comments were made about low grade card collections (or general comments along that line). It all kind of mutated from there...

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06-24-2005, 07:58 PM

Posted By: AnonymousYes Anson, it is your thread. But it is a PSA1 thread (with qualifiers and unqualifiers). What do you want for it?

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06-24-2005, 08:02 PM

Posted By: AnsonI'm half tempted to make a reference to a Morgan Dollar cataloged by.......well, you get the picture. Adam, I wasn't named after Adrian Anson but it would have made for an interesting story. I was named after a great uncle who was alive at the same time, however. My goal (besides the E101 set) is to own a nice eye appeal Cap Anson N162 someday.

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06-25-2005, 01:05 AM

Posted By: Lee BehrensAdam, The last 4 1/2 years I have been heavy into buying vintage cards, mainly Vg/Ex or below. I have done qiute nicely for myself and have seen the lowgrade cards go up 2 to 3 times what I was buying them for in 2000. I truly believe that is much safer to buy cards in these grades because there are more people out there that can afford cards in this price range. Your so called high ended material is very dependant on "investors" and in the caase of PSA cards set registry collectors (Which as was pointed out by an earlier poster, those populations only increase which then decreases the value of the card you own). If you read the board you would find that there are many that are collectors of lowgrade cards ( and some even flaunt them (Scottoptomus <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ). Plus there are the heavy hitters that have wonderful collections 99% of us only dream of having. Flaunting your collection on this board the way you did is what opened you to the criticism you received. As far as your autograph collection, if you remember when the FBI busted the fake autograph sellers and producers then were some of the best respected and high volume sellers of autographs. The bottom line is we all have our own interests in the hobby, whether high grade, low grade or some where inbetween. <img src="http://attic2cash.net/T206LajoieThrowPSA2MK.jpg"> I will take all the 2's that look like this any day of the week and you can darn well believe that if I ever want to sell it there will be a nice market for it. My one cent worth (not 2 cents because I collect lower grade), Lee

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06-25-2005, 01:20 AM

Posted By: J LevineA few observations... Adam M.-- What dismays me the most is your goals. Your self-stated number one goal is to be a Millionaire by 50. I think this is what is truly wrong with our country lately. Shouldn't your number one goal be your child's health, well-being, and happiness. Money does not buy that...ask around...it just doesn't. I work in an area of Los Angeles (and yes, So. Cal. is a tough place to live) where the median house price is now $515K and the upper levels are selling between $1M-$2M. I see many kids neglected, unloved, taken care of by strangers, etc. Parents are so concerned with "what is mine" that they miss the important things in life. The sense of entitlement is alarming. As a teacher, I implore you to really take a step back and look at what your goals are. I applaud you for fighting for custody. Now that you have it, the bigger question is what are you going to do with it? My collection is wonderful...almost no card is graded and nearly no card would grade above a 3. I love it. My choice. Joshua

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06-25-2005, 02:21 AM

Posted By: jay behrensAdam, if you are still reading this thread, here is something else to ponder. I've been on both side of the collecting world and econonic world. I used to have a nice chunk of money and killer collection. Today, I am literally flat broke and make very little money. You know what, I am 100 times happier now with my life than I was when I had money. Take guess as to why this is.....it's because I no longer spend all my time in pursuit of money. I've learned their far more important things in life than making money and much better things to do with your time than work constantly to make that money that so much of America desires. Don't end up like so many people do when they are on their deathbed and wish they had spent more time with family and friends instead of working to make money all the time. Every second you let go by in pursuit of money is another second you can't spend with your kid. And don't still little for very long. Your chance to pursue money will always be there. Jay My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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06-25-2005, 06:17 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanLee, why is that Nap throwing a 2? Unless there are some massive creases there, it looks like a 6 or 7 MK easy.

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06-25-2005, 06:58 AM

Posted By: dennissince psa has a mk qualifier it seems that psa should grade the card according to condition only and then add the qualifier. the problem(?) is that this is not always the case, but rather some psa graders lower the grade because of the (mk) and then add the qualifier. a different grader could have graded this a 6 (mk).inconsistant

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06-25-2005, 08:53 AM

Posted By: AnsonI would crack that Lajoie like a scalded cat, it's beautiful. Everyone keeps poopooing about SoCal. Try coming up north to the Bay Area, CA and see what a house will cost you. Median price is well over $100,000+ more than LA.

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06-25-2005, 09:31 AM

Posted By: J LevineMedian house price in LA is now nearing $400K...in fact the median price for a 1 bedroom condo is $100K... I was born and raised in the Southern Calif. I love it greatly. I actually like the Bay Area and my brother has lived there for nearly 10 years. California in general is getting to be a difficult place to live with our idiot of a govenor, cost of living, etc.

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06-25-2005, 11:51 AM

Posted By: Bob RousseauI lived in the Bay area for 12 years and I saw the community change in that eventually, it was difficult to have a one bedroom apt unless you paid $1300+ (owning was already hard to conceptionalize when I first moved there and except for a period of stagnation, it kept climbing higher and higher!). During the period I lived there, it increasingly became more chi chi wannabe L.A./Rodeo Drive [no offense meant to those that like that- I just prefer a different kind of vibe] - and the community became less interesting. I moved up to Seattle 5 years ago and it's got a lot more of the kind of character (and characters!) San Francisco used to have. You're going to get more artists and creative people and just regular people living in your area when the rent for a one bedroom apt is about $750 vs that $1,200. Funny- I moved right when Pac Bell/SBC park opened and I was bummed cause I would've been able to walk to ballgames there. Well, now I walk to ballgames at Safeco Field, and though it doesn't have as great a view at PacBell, it's a close second. May the Gods in their wisdom rain paltry PSA 2 MKs like that Nap down on me! (but- no doubt, there'd be alot of people on this board competing to be similarly "cursed"!)

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06-25-2005, 12:25 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineCally has an awesome Gov.(the Guvenator,YEAH) Try living in Iowa. Our Gov.(Tom Vilsack, a.k.a.Tom Viltax) ABSOLUTELY SUCKS! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine I wouldn't want to live in Cally. I would be afraid that an earthquake would hit,with a high magnitude and break Cally off into the Pacific Ocean?(swam there before, though)

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06-25-2005, 12:47 PM

Posted By: warshawlawThere is a lot of stuff that really needs to be repaired and no money to do it. ERs are closing left and right, our roads in the worst condition I've ever seen, courthouses and public buildings are opening later because of lack of money to pay security screeners, and all the idiot in Sacramento can do is mindlessly repeat "no new taxes". I hope the bastard has a heart attack near one of the closed emergency rooms...wouldn't that be ironic?

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06-25-2005, 01:06 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineWarshaw, Easy big fella, You want to discuss taxes. A couple years ago, Iowa passed a 1-cent sales tax option where ALL of the money was going to be used to repair schools' (since education is SUPPOSED to be Iowa's top priority, YEAH RIGHT) Well, guess what? Now, Iowa doesn't have enough money to repair ALL of the schools' Thus, forcing five schools in my hometown alone, to close its doors for good. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine YET, Iowa has enough money is increase lobbyists and public officals salaries. God Bless Gov. Tom Vilsack, (D) Iowa

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06-25-2005, 01:12 PM

Posted By: tbobLooks like all the steam is gone. Now we can move on to bigger and better issues. I didn't even get to mention I have the best vintage card collection in the State of Arkansas <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> (Since things like that matter to some, LOL).

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06-25-2005, 01:32 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineTbob, You have the best collection of vintage cards in Arkansas due to the fact,there are not too many vintage cards in Arkansas. BUT WAIT,I understand, there is an endless supply of interns,hogs and brother/sister marriages per capita than any other state though. (LOL) Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-25-2005, 02:08 PM

Posted By: AnsonThe worst part of this thread is that we didn't really get to discuss the initial topic much.

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06-25-2005, 02:32 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI have the best vintage card collection in NYC. Oh wait, I mean on the upper east side of Manhattan. No, I mean in on East 73rd Street. Wait, I mean in my building. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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06-25-2005, 02:33 PM

Posted By: Matthew JacksonI am working on the 2nd best vintage collection in the state <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I am sure no one cares though. Has anyone fessed up to the 2nd best Iowa collection yet? Vintage collectors = Arkansas 2, Iowa 1. Adam, keep looking for the 4's and above & leave the 1's and 2's for the Arkies. Good luck. Go Arkansas! Someone mentioned PSA 1 prewar hockey cards in an earlier post. Here's mine. Looks better than a 1, don't you think? <img src= "http://www.network54.com/Realm/hotdogmj71/c551.JPG" height=400 width=300>

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06-25-2005, 02:39 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineMatt, I never claimed to have "THE BEST" collection here in Iowa. I did say ONE of the best. I am only considering the material I have, and my age, when making that statement. I am sure there are "COLLECTORS" here, in Iowa who remain private about there collections, who COULD blow my collection out of the water. But they are the guys who are 45+ years old, who have been collecting longer than I have been alive! Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-25-2005, 02:48 PM

Posted By: Matthew JacksonNo problem Adam. Just messing with you. My best friend from college married a sweet girl from the Quad Cities area & we always traded jabs on who was more rural. Now if I can only get tbob to move across the border & I can have the best vintage collection in Arkansas (by default since I think there are only 2 of us) Good luck with your collection Adam MJ

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06-25-2005, 02:50 PM

Posted By: jay behrensThis thread can't lose steam yet, we are almost to the uncharted territory of 200 posts. Keep the dream alive Jay My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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06-25-2005, 03:01 PM

Posted By: SteveDamn nice reading! Affluent Westchester County NY here. It is a balmy 96 (I am inside my A/C mansion. The gardener is outside sweating his cajones off. away Thanks to all of ya's that have entertained me this afternoon. ADAM your last reply will surely fan the flames and keep this thread goin. BTW I'd show some lowgrade vintage stuff (yes I have some too) but have no idea how to post a pic on this site. Steve D

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06-25-2005, 03:04 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineCan someone please answer my SECOND question under the "old judge question" thread? Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine

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06-25-2005, 03:10 PM

Posted By: Adam J. Morainesteve, glad things are going well in Scarsdale, Younkers, or long Island sound or wherever you are from. How are things at westchester county club? Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine By the way, Steve why do you not have you maid or gardener post the pics for you? What the hell are you paying them for? OR are you just a cheap a!@#%

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06-25-2005, 03:41 PM

Posted By: SteveLets see, I could lower myself and answer you in a manner in which you deserve or just let your comments go by the wayside. I prefer to let you think about that. Regards, Steve

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06-25-2005, 03:48 PM

Posted By: AnsonA few Fair examples I just picked up, thanks to Dan K!<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119736006.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119736060.JPG">

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06-25-2005, 04:19 PM

Posted By: Robert NowellI have been following this thread as I am sure many have and I have a few observations. What started out as a good thread has since turned into a vicious assault by Adam on the other posters and for the life of me I cant understand why he has been allowed to continue posting the way he has in this thread. I for one would like to see this thread get locked down when Leon is able to do so because the continuance of such does nothing more than turn away those lurking who might be inclined to post on true vintage questions and needs but dont because of this ill-mannered Adam. Adam, you have really shown your immaturity by posting the way you have and inflaming and maligning the fine group of people here who go out of there way to help and befriend so many here. You may have worthy goals in life but there is one goal you seem to have all but forgotten and that is treat people the way you would like to be treated. Just because you are on the internet and using it as a mode of communication doesnt give you the license to act any way you like without any regard to the standards of human decentcy and dignity. The other rule that seems lost on you is, if you dont have anything nice to say then just dont say anything at all. I think you owe Leon and the rest of this board an apology for your absurd behavior. basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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06-25-2005, 04:29 PM

Posted By: Daniel BrettaAdam, you either have a very poor sense of humor or you are completely lacking self-awareness. I can't figure which, but you certainly know how to make things worse for yourself.

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06-25-2005, 05:01 PM

Posted By: J LevineMaybe Adam should just push back from the computer and spend some time with his daughter, seems like the maturity level would be more compatible. Maybe nobody answered your second question because you continue to offend board members. Joshua

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06-25-2005, 08:15 PM

Posted By: Adam J. MoraineI chalk it up to a very poor sense of humor.NOTHING PERSONAL,GUYS.GEEZ. And Levine, my ex-girlfriend has weekend visitation 5 p.m.- Friday- 6 p.m. Sunday. Therefore, I will not see my daughter, until 6 p.m. TOMORROW. Best Regards, Adam J. Moraine p.s. Levine, Why do you not spend some time with you kid/kids or significant other?

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06-25-2005, 09:01 PM

Posted By: tbobAdam- suprisingly the number of incestual marriages, as you so pleasantly referred to in your post, increased once people from your state started moving down to Arkansas. The interns didn't come from here either, only the President. I'd sure rather have Arkansas' Brother Bill running the show, interns and all, than the village idiot from Texas. But that's another post for another day.... Have a nice day, TBob P.S. I bet Matthew's collection will rival yours in 10 years because he collects tough cards, regardless of condition, which are always going to be scarce and desired by collectors.

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06-25-2005, 09:09 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesThis is a non-title event. This entire thread is not officially sanctioned by Net54. Therefore, Jay Behrens' Dunderhead Crown is not threatened by these proceedings. It is noted however, that Mr. Maroon has clearly established himself as a primary contender for the title. Also please note: No chickens, horses, dogs, nor bulls were harmed during the production of this thread. Although their excrement has been dispersed widely throughout many posts.

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06-25-2005, 09:11 PM

Posted By: AnsonI tried to steer us away from continuing on with this but it didn't work. Leon, please put the fork in this one as nothing tangible is coming out of this thread. BTW, we have had a whole string of idiots for presidents. Let's not kid ourselves.

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06-25-2005, 09:16 PM

Posted By: Judge DredPost 198 - It was a fun thread to begin with.

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06-25-2005, 09:16 PM

Posted By: leonThis post is #198. When it gets to 200 I will lock it......I don't think I've ever seen a 200 post thread. As for the original topic I have had this discussion with friends numerous times. There is absolutely the most variations in PR grade than any other, by far. It's almost not fair....regards

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06-25-2005, 09:17 PM

Posted By: leonOk ...judge posted right when I did making it 199....so is this 200?

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06-25-2005, 09:17 PM

Posted By: Judge DredPost 199 - Ok, one more post to 200.