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06-03-2005, 12:21 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaFor obvious reasons there is a premium placed on the eight White Sox players, but I've wondered why there is no premium placed on cards of Sleepy Bill Burns or any of the other peripheral players in the scandal (Joe Gedeon). Also has it ever been confirmed that Billy Maharg was actually Peaches Graham?

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06-03-2005, 12:33 PM

Posted By: RichardDan, I read 'Eight Men Out' by Eliot Asinof last summer, and was left wondering the very same things -- how Sleepy Bill Burns as slipped under collectors' radars, and whether or not anyone was able to figure out for sure if Billy Maharg is/was Peaches Graham. While I certainly can't answer the question about the collecting traits of other people, some food for thought about the Graham vs. Maharg debate is that CNN/SI has vitals and career stats (albeit a bit limited in the case of Maharg) for both players: Billy Maharg: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/all_time_stats/players/m/47375" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/all_time_stats/players/m/47375</a>/ Peaches Graham: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/all_time_stats/players/g/48594/index.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/all_time_stats/players/g/48594/index.html</a> The simple solution might be to find and compare photos... Richard. <a href="http://www.richardarmstrong.ca" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.richardarmstrong.ca</a>

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06-03-2005, 12:54 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorWhenever I have sold a T206 card of Bill Burns, I always put Black Sox in the title and then a little bit of a description of his involvement in the scandal. I think I have earned a premium on his cards for this reason, and I do see others following suit and earning a premium as well. Certainly not to the extent of Cicotte and Gandil, but let's remember that it was 8 Men Out. And those 8 will always be more famous as a result.

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06-03-2005, 01:42 PM

Posted By: JulieThe very scholarly 1919BlackSox group cannot agree on Maharg. I favor their being the same guy, because he could have snuck the two baseball careers both in, and..who ever heard of a guy named Maharg? He's probably the only one in the phone book. Whoops..was, if there were any. I have SEEN comparison photos (courtesy 1919BlackSox), and they look a lot alike, but one looks older than the other (their stats indicate a 20-year age difference--not too hard to simulate). The T206s, for some reason, are the last to be hit by the Black Sox premium--I don't know why. Gandil, Cicotte and Burns I got for common prices--but that was 4-6 years ago. The W514s--I think the Black Sox put strip- cards on the map!--are way elevated, and the Zeenuts are ridiculous... <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/buck.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/BSBk11Z002.jpg">

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06-03-2005, 02:13 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI would love to think that Graham and Maharg are the same person, but I haven't heard anyone explain the different dates of death. The pictures I have seen do look very much alike, and one would have to wonder why Sleepy Bill Burns would be hanging out with a boxer. Julie do you have a link to the 1919 group? Dan

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06-03-2005, 02:30 PM

Posted By: Max WederDan The link is at <a href="http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/1919BlackSox" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/1919BlackSox</a>/ Max

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06-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThanks, Max.

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06-03-2005, 03:42 PM

Posted By: robert aThere is a small premium associated with burns. I'm sure even abe atell receives a small premium. However, cicotte and gandil were good players besides being involved at the center of the scandal.

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06-03-2005, 06:02 PM

Posted By: Julie........

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06-03-2005, 10:59 PM

Posted By: john/z28jdPeaches Graham and Bill Maharg careers overlap each other,Graham was with the Phillies in St Louis on the day Maharg played for the Tigers in 1912 Also Julie,Maharg is a last name thats not fairly common but if you look it up online youll find numerous examples besides Bill Maharg. The most telling difference between the 2 is the size,Peaches was 5"9 and average build,Maharg was 5"4 and known by the nickname Pudgy.When you include they both have full birth/death records(including burials) its hard to assume theyre the same person Peaches Grahams son Jack was a baseball player for the Dodgers and Giants in the 40s and was born in Minnesota which would be an odd place for Maharg to have a kid since he always lived in Philadelphia.Maharg was a chauffeur for a Phillies player during the 1916 season,the same year Jack Graham was born in Minn. I dont believe they are the same player but i wouldnt doubt his real last name at some point was Graham and he changed it

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06-03-2005, 11:27 PM

Posted By: JulieGraham (a different guy)may have changed his name to Maharg--except--why would he? There may be a number of Mahargs on the internet today, but it's no longer 1916. I'll admit that all the differences you mention are extremely hard to account for in one man. Also, if one man had brought the deception off---why would HE? A lot of trouble to change ones identity from that of a baseball player--to a gambler! (who had a brief baseball career) Anyone have a card of--either?

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06-03-2005, 11:29 PM

Posted By: peteanyone else notice Graham is maharG spelled backwards? I also agree about the name change somewhere down the line, I know I would rather be known as "pudgy" than "peaches".... pete-

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06-03-2005, 11:36 PM

Posted By: john/z28jdJulie what the heck does there might be some today but its not 1916 mean? Do you think its a modern last name that just evolved from the name maha or mahar.I dont get that at all,names are handed down thru generations so chances are these people came from other people named Maharg(just going out on a limb here). Peaches Graham cards are pretty easy to find,especially since hes in the t206 set. Pete,maharg being Graham backwards is where the question arose from in the first place. I cant add anything else to my above post on why i dont believe theyre the same player,i thought i summed it up pretty good

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06-04-2005, 12:08 AM

Posted By: tedAlthough i have something to say on this i'll save it until a more awake state of mind comes upon me..in the mean time..anyone else have a problem with this: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5204225838&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5204225838&rd=1</a> or this: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5204233148&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5204233148&rd=1</a>

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06-04-2005, 12:28 AM

Posted By: Juliethere were in 1916. See "Crash." It really doesn't seem possible that one man could have arranged all those duel happenings and--as I said before--to what end? Last poster (I'm sleepy too--Oh yes, Black Sox Fan)--yes, everyone wants to get into the act. $$$.

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06-04-2005, 07:16 AM

Posted By: David VarghaWhat about some of these players named "Bob"? When you spell the name backwards, the result is quite curious. DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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06-04-2005, 10:38 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaIt is assumed that Maharg changed his name from Graham when he was a scab player during the the 1912 Detroit Tigers strike. Asinof in his book "Eight Men Out" makes the connection. While this may be true that he changed his name I think there is too much evidence that Peaches Graham and Maharg are seperate persons.

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06-04-2005, 11:58 AM

Posted By: Juliechange his name, and the gambler was probably someone else entirely.

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06-04-2005, 06:14 PM

Posted By: warshawlawwhy not Abe Attell being a major premium card for baseball collectors? He was one of the central figures in the scandal and has a number of really nice T cards that sell for premiums based on his ethnicity and champion status, but nowhere near what a baseball figure sells for. Good deals for Black Sox collectors.

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06-04-2005, 06:47 PM

Posted By: JulieAm I the ONLY one paying premiums for everyone connected with the Black Sox? Can't post the Attell. My posts--"they're all out on bets"...(I don't have anymore room in my Net54 files, and there's nothing I want to erase right now!)<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/BSjoW514001.jpg"> Well, there's room for my $4 Joe--I bought it about 20 years ago!

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06-07-2005, 05:44 AM

Posted By: identify7Johnz28jd said "Graham was with the Phillies in St Louis on the day Maharg played for the Tigers in 1912". Assuming this is true: Case closed.