Burdick the Amazing [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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05-24-2005, 01:25 AM

Posted By: jay behrensAll this talk about rare sets got me to thinking what an incredible thing it was for Jefferson Burdick to catalogue all these cards. And not only catalogued abseball cards, but cards of every type, sports and non-sports. He also did it in a time when connectivity to other people around the country and the world was limited at best. What he did is simply amazing and would be difficult to duplicate today even if cards werent worth so much. Even though he isn't alive to read this, my hat's off this amazing man. Jay I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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05-24-2005, 04:42 AM

Posted By: T206Collector....anyone ever tries to assemble a team to attempt to get his collection moved to a location where we can all enjoy seeing it, i.e., not the Met.

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05-24-2005, 08:07 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisMr T206 Collector, You are absolutely right. Back in the early '90s I made an appointment to see Burdick's collection at NY Met of Art. It was quite an experience. I really enjoyed looking thru the many albums of Sports cards that had been very meticu- lously organized by Burdick before he donated it to the Met. But, the people at the Met, made it a very tedious exercise. Understandably, they were concerned about theft; however, one does not feel comfortable viewing this great collection. Not only did they stand over you, but they rushed you. The people at the Met do not really have an appreciation for this col- lection. It should be traveled around the country and managed by very credible hobby people. How this can be done, I do not know. Perhaps some enterprising person, or group, can fund- raise and accomplish this. It would be well worth it.

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05-24-2005, 08:08 AM

Posted By: RickHe was crippled with arthratis while he was still kinda of young, a short guy, thin, probably kinda of shy and unassuming. Since he had no kids or family, he was just devoted to cards, he really didnt seem to want the publicity or even much reconigtion for his amazing work. If i remember correctly there were 5 contributors to the ACC they all had pictures of themselves in the book except for Burdick. I dont think collectors pay him enough due, when asked what were the most important changes in our hobby, his name doesnt come up too often. His collection should be on display where it could be seen in its fullness and his legacy remembered.

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05-24-2005, 08:17 AM

Posted By: Hal LewisMaybe someone should start a real: Baseball CARD Hall of Fame You would think that they could get donations from Topps, Upper Deck, PSA, SGC, SCD, Beckett, etc. to pull this off.

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05-24-2005, 09:09 AM

Posted By: Bill StoneSometime ago in this forum I asked for suggestions of where vintage baseball cards could be viewed. I was well aware of the Burdick collection at the Met but by all accounts,it was difficult, , if not impossible , to view. I think the National Baseball Hall of Fame should try and negotiate a deal with the Met to acquire the entire collection and put it on display --from everything I ever read on the Burdick collection it seemed terribly out of place at the Met--as if they didn't really want it --have any need for it --or really knew what to do with it ---maybe now is the time to start a movement to have them realize it is not a good fit and give it a real good home ---this is not unheard of in the museum world and it might be good for everyone --I wonder if the Hall of Fame has ever approached this subject?

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05-24-2005, 10:59 AM

Posted By: Bruce Babcock<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/.Pictures/More%20Favorites/burdickphoto.jpg">

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05-24-2005, 12:10 PM

Posted By: T206Collector<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1116958187.JPG"> It's from the 1908 T-206 Traded set.

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05-24-2005, 12:27 PM

Posted By: jay behrensUnless the Met donates the cards to the Baseball HOF, they won't get involved. They rarely, if ever pay for anything. It would be nice to see the card comapnies get together on this, but I doubt they would be willing to work together on something like this. They would want exclusive rights and most likely want to hack up a few cards so they use them as inserts in their packs. The only way this would get done is for some big time collectors, maybe Olberman and some others, to get together and create a plan to rescue the Burdick collection from the Met. Hell, the Met could just have Mastro or REA acution of the collection and they would get ride of something they don't want and could go buy something they really do want. Jay I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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05-24-2005, 01:19 PM

Posted By: warshawlawJudging from the boxing cards I saw and the smattering of baseball cards I managed to glance at, the collection would sell for millions. Inter-museum trades are one thing; simply removing items from museum collections is a tricky and expensive proposition. Owing to the mechanics of donations and charitable endeavor management, the museum would very likely have to go to court and obtain the permission of a judge to sell off a valuable part of its collection outright, especially one that was there for a long time and that was probably not donated with paperwork that would cover all the issues. The auction would be a hell of a mess, though, in one respect: The cards are all pasted down on pages. I am willing to bet that some would be removable, many others not. I guess we'd all go through the whole disclosure-restoration-slabbing mess too...

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05-25-2005, 11:18 AM

Posted By: Anonymous As a 30 year NYC collector and a patron of the Metropolitan Museum of Art I have visited the Burdick collection a number of times. Back in 1980 I met Sir Edward Wharton Tigar- the legendary Bristish card collector- and owner of the world's largest collection of tobacco cards. Sir Edward regularly traded with Burdick and ultimately with me...on his death his collection went to the British Museum. His five part book- the World Tobacco Index makes for fascinating reading- he shared many Burdick stories with me--and I saw his collection at his home inLondon. We also traded cards and he was the source of nearly all of the infamous Kalamazoo Bat Team Cabinets- one of which I own and one of which Mile High Cards is auctioning this week, His stories about Burdick were fascinating. For those who are interested I have articles, notes and copies of original correspondence between these legendary collectors of the mid 19th century. Those were the days when it was a hobby and not a business. By the way, Lew Lipset also knew Wharton Tigar and obtained a number of items from him in trade.

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05-25-2005, 05:21 PM

Posted By: Chuck RI would love to read his biography...anyone who is a spy and a collector is worth getting to know. One of the highlights of my collecting was learning something in particular about his collection. Among the cards he donated to the British Museum was what is apparently the closest near set of the N-224 Kinney Military Series...Wharton-Tigar had 621 of the 622 cards. Martin Murray of Murray cards has 618 and I know of one long-time American collector who had 615 (I have 611). I found out that the one card Wharton-Tigar was missing is one that I have. Not only was that a thrill, but it also gave me hope that this seemingly impossible set could conceivably be finished.

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05-26-2005, 03:09 AM

Posted By: JulieThe Asian Art Museum used to occupy one wing of the de Young Museum, until the de Young was torn down, and has been rebuilt, and the Asian moved into the SF public Library building (extensively rennovated). While they were putting things into storage, the de Young "transferred" quite a few lovely items to the Asian, things that were more appropriately housed in an Asian museum. From what I've been hearing, the Met thinks the Burdick collection is a nuicence. The HOF already has a library, with, among other things, original photos of almost everryone who ever played professional baseball. It seems like a natural thing to me.

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05-26-2005, 08:37 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisJulie, With one word, "nuisance", you perfectly described what took me two rambling paragraphs to do; regarding how the NY Met views the Burdick Collection. Thanx for being very succinct. Incidently, the HOF does have a very large display of BaseBall cards (from Tobacco to present day issues). But, this display pales in comparison to the Burdick collection. My only problem with having this collection permanently in Cooperstown is that it would be inconvenient for hobbyist in the Mid-West, South, and far West.

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05-26-2005, 09:18 AM

Posted By: Chuck RI realize this would be a monumental task (considering the number of albums), but it would be fantastic if the collection was scanned and put on the web. In my end of the hobby (30's nonsports) there are a number of type cards in the ACC that to my knowledge have never come up for sale in the decades I've been collecting. Worse, Burdick left very little information on them. Without traveling to NY to look through the albums, I'm at a loss on how to even recognize some of these tough ones.

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05-26-2005, 10:01 AM

Posted By: Bill StoneTed --let's put it at the Slugger Museum in Louisville, Kentucky --that would be much more accessible and would be a fitting addition to their collection of baseball history. I know the Association of Art Museum Directors strongly disapproves of selling a part of a museum's collection -- other than for the purpose of strengthening their collections ---I am sure the Met could find a way to " strengthen their remaining collection" by sharing this collection with another museum, since the collection doesn't really serve an educational/civic function if it can't be easily viewed. I am curious what is involved in seeing the collection ---I understand an appointment is necessary but is anything else required?

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05-26-2005, 10:55 AM

Posted By: Peter SpaethOne wonders how, pre internet, pre card shows (I assume), pre almost every means we have at our disposal today to collect, he was able to amass such a complete collection? Does anyone know how he did it?

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05-26-2005, 12:45 PM

Posted By: warshawlawGiven how many non-baseball cards there are (far, far more than the baseball holdings), I don't think the HOF or any other museum is going to receive them. As long as the Met has a chunk of the collection, it might as well keep the whole thing. Since I was able to visit and review non-baseball cards, I got some feel for the size of the collection and the ratio of what would be interesting if scanned versus what would be junk. I do not think that more than a tiny % of the collection would be of sufficient interest to merit scanning. According to the OOP index of the collection (I have a PDF of it), there are 660 albums/boxes. Of those, perhaps 50 are sports-related. The key baseball issues are in approximately 20 albums. If those were scanned, you would cover the prewar (WWII) collection. Add in other early sports and you perhaps get to 40 albums, max, and many of those albums are of interest only as to a few pages (e.g., N28-29-43, which occupy a handful of pages in album 201). I'd bet a reputable scanning service using the newest possible software and equipment could complete the work in under a week. I use services like that all the time to obtain documents in lawsuits.

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05-26-2005, 12:50 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisBill Stone, Louisville, KY is fine with me. It is certainly more accessible than Cooperstown for most of the general public. Chicago might even be a better location, though, since I would think that a lot of hobbyists nationwide would love to see this collection. It's been over 10 years ago since I was there, so my advice is do a GOOGLE to get the Tel# for the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYCity and call them for info to see the Jefferson R Burdick collection.

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05-26-2005, 01:30 PM

Posted By: Julieto scan the sports stuff, and put it on the internet!

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05-26-2005, 07:29 PM

Posted By: jay behrensFrom what I understand, you can no longer jsut request to view the collection like I did in 1982. I believe you now need to have a legit research interest to be able to anything, and then they will only let you look at the stuff pertinent to your research. You won't be able to just peruse things at your leasuire. Jay I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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05-27-2005, 05:55 AM

Posted By: warshawlawThey will let you look at the collection for research but not baseball. The baseball cards languish unused and unviewed. To add insult to injury, when I was last there the small baseball card display that they had erected was gone.

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05-27-2005, 07:44 AM

Posted By: Bill StoneI just finished rereading George Vrechek's accounts of visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art to view the Burdick collection --he has some very interesting observations-<a href="http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/burdick.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/burdick.html</a> including a reference to some cards being loaned to the Toledo Museum of Art.

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05-27-2005, 12:58 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisBill, What a great link that you provided us to George's story on the history of Burdick; and, the situation at the Met with respect to his collection. I didn't find when this story was dated, but George cites "Lew Lipset of Carefree, AZ"; so, it must be quite recent. It certainly sounds like the situation for viewing this collection at the Met has deteriorated significantly since I was there, back in the mid '90s. If I recall correctly, I did not need to convince the Met that I was doing research on sports card collecting, then. I recall being in a "dungeon" of a room for about 2 hours looking at all the BB albums of the collection. One could never view all of the albums in just 2 hours. One thing I'll never forget: the 1934 Goudey LaJoie was simply attached to its respective page in the 1933 Goudey section in a plastic holder. And as you turned the page you had to be very careful because the card was "flapping" about. A card of this significance, certainly deserved better treatment. Thanks much for your very informative post. Its really one of the best yet I've seen on this forum.