Ranking the difficulty of nineteenth century issues ?

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Posted By: <b>DT</b><p>wondering what the more experienced of ya'll<br />have for opinions on the relative rarity on following sets (feel free to add others):<br /><br />N175 Gypsy Queen Large<br />Yum-Yums<br />G&B<br />Kalamazoo Players<br />Kalamazoo Teams<br />Four Base Hits <br />Just So<br />N173 O.J. Cabinets<br />Duke Cabinets<br />SF Hess<br />SF Hess California<br />Lone Jacks<br />N167 O.J.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jim Clarke</b><p>Just a guess???<br /><br />1. Four Base Hits<br />2. N167<br />3. Just So<br />4. SF Hess California <br />5. Lone Jack<br />6. G&B<br />7. Yum-Yum<br />8. Duke Cabinet<br />9. N175 Gypsy Queen Large<br />10. SF Hess<br />11. Kalamazoo Bat Team<br />12. Kalamazoo Bat Player (Phila)<br />13. N173 OJ Cabinets<br /> <br />Kalamazoo Bat player (Mets) Around 5<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>?

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Posted By: <b>Jim Clarke</b><p>Peck and Snider???<br />Which version and which back?<br />Probally between number 4 and 5.

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>?

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Posted By: <b>Andy Baran</b><p>1.) Kalamazoo Bats (Giants & Mets only)<br />2.) Just So Tobacco<br />3.) Four Base Hits<br />4.) N167 Old Judge<br />5.) SF Hess California<br />6.) G&B<br />7.) N175 Gypsy Queen Large<br />8.) Yum Yum<br />9.) Lone Jack<br />10.) SF Hess<br />11.) Duke Cabinets<br />12.) Kalamazoo Bats Teams<br />13.) Kalamazoo Bats (Philly)<br />14.) N173 OJ Cabinets<br /><br />Four Base Hits seem like the most scarce, but there are actually more of them known than Just So Tobacco and NY K-Bats. Unfortunately for most of us, they are tucked away in collections and rarely hit the market.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>My list would be as follows:<br /><br />Hancock Clothing<br />Just So<br />Large Gypsy Queen<br />Four Base Hits<br />K-Bats(Mets/Giants)<br />SF Hess California (Photo)<br />N167<br />Lone Jacks<br />K-Bats Teams<br />G&B/Yum Yum<br />SF Hess<br />SF Hess Creole<br />K-Bats(Philadelphia)<br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>New York Baseball Club- Welton Cigars<br />Hancock Clothing<br />Just So<br />Four Base Hits<br />SF Hess California (Photo)<br />Large Gypsy Queen<br />K-Bats(Mets/Giants)<br />N167<br />Lone Jacks<br />K-Bats Teams<br />G&B/Yum Yum<br />SF Hess<br />SF Hess Creole<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>murcerfan</b><p>...I did not realize the Gypsy Queen Large would rank as tough, nor the K-bat Phillies/A's so easy.<br /><br />also, forgive my ignorance, is the SF Creole a minor league issue? or is this another term for the colorized drawings issue ?<br /><br />I would also suppose the easiest 19th century sets would be N172 O.J. (In general..no offense to you O.J. guys..I know many players, teams and poses are very rare) followed by Mayos and then Gypsy Queen small.<br /><br />Perhaps ranking these sets in tiers is more appropriate, as so few examples of some are known...and I guess by difficulty or rareness I would be refering to known population vs. obtainability.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>david</b><p>i am actually working on a website to address this same issue<br />in my work so far i have gone over a ton of catalogs. some observations so for<br /><br />rob lifson in a catalog about 8 years ago estimated there are approximately 100 or less n167 out there<br /><br />just so are almost all unique examples<br /><br />hancocks are all probably unique<br /><br />four bases hits have a few unique examples and others there seems to be no more the 3-10 known examples<br /><br />almost all ny kbat players have less then three known examples with many of them being unique. i believe there are two keefes, with one being trimmed<br /><br />g and bs are harder to find then yum yums but that does not account for the individual scarcity of cards within each set. i believe the yum yum kelly next to urn is a unique example. <br /><br />lone jacks are also extremely tough are are ranked somewhere in between g and bs and yum yums. <br /><br />i would appreciate it if anyone can add to this info or correct any mistakes.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt Goebel</b><p>I think most of us have the book "Classic Baseball Cards", and I always enjoy flipping through it. I've often thought that someone should do another coffee table-type book with high quality images of all these tough nineteenth century issues. Would this even be possible? I wonder if many of the secretive collectors would even share images?<br /><br />Wishful thinking?

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>This is my take as to rarity<br /><br />Hancock Clothing<br />Just So<br />K-Bats(Mets/Giants)<br />Four Base Hits<br />Sporting Times (m117)<br />SF Hess California (Photo)<br />N167<br />Large Gypsy Queen<br />Lone Jacks<br />K-Bats Teams<br />Duke Cabinets (Robby is tougher)<br />G&B<br />Yum Yum<br />SF Hess (Major Leaguers)<br />SF Hess (Lithos)<br />K-Bats(Philadelphia)<br />Gypsy Queen Small<br />Old Judge Cabinets<br />Scrapps<br />Mayos<br />Buchner Gold Coin<br />Old Judge (N172)<br />

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Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>Great thread. And not even one mention of slabs throughout....hallelujah! I'd post my own list, but I think Rhett already nailed it with his.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Ben, they why did you mention slabs? You ruined it :-p<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: <b>Joe G.</b><p>I like Rhett's list but as already alluded to, N172s are all over the map. Depending on how you define the listing criteria (type set vs complete set, etc.), N172s could be anywhere from top to bottom. Some of the issues listed above are divided into appropriate subsets such as the Kalamazoo Bat cards. Similar division might be appropriate for Old Judges.<br /><br />This is just a quick swagger at how such a list might shake out (understand there is still significant range in difficulty within most of the following categories).<br /><br />MOST DIFFICULT<br />1889 California League<br />1890 (PL/NL)<br />1887 Brooklyn minis<br />1887 script (this includes the Spotted Ties)<br />1888 Fb (smaller but bold "GOODWIN & CO., New York.")<br />1888 Fa (larger "GOODWIN & CO., New York.")<br />1887 short number (this includes the Browns Champs)<br />1889 all but California League<br />1887 leading '0', aka long number (lumping together type 1 & type 2)<br />EASIER<br /><br />On the master list, the California League N172s would like reside top 3 if not first while the 1887 long number would reside at the bottom.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>...then how'd I get so many of them?<br /><br />Whoever wrote the complete list left out N162, surely one of the easiest.

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Posted By: <b>Joe G.</b><p>Julie, as I stated there is certainly a range of difficulty within some of the listed subsets. The script would be a good example as certain cards such as the Kelly cards with Chicago and Smiling Mickeys appear to be more common than the Spotted Ties or the Phenominal Smith etc. It is known from surviving uncut sheets that some of the script cards continued to be issued along with the later 1887 numbered cards while others likely did not.<br /><br />I think it is also fair to say the top three subsets I listed are a fair margin more difficult than the remaining subsets.<br /><br />Joe G.