best "raw" card dealers

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Posted By: <b>scott</b><p> who among the dealers listed or those who aren't,are the most reliable to buy raw pre-war?(low to mid-grade).after going to fort washington and talking to dealers,it seems one pays more for graded cards then raw.since i'm getting back in the hobby,i'm looking for individuals with the expertise to identify trimming etc.,without paying inflated prices for equally graded cards.(graded vs. raw)<br /> <br /> here's an example i saw at the fort washington show psa 3 t206 mathewson portrait for $650,another dealer had a much nicer raw matty portrait vg-ex maybe even ex. for$600. i saw many other examples of this.<br /><br /> <br /> any feedback?<br /> scott ps .i'm looking at mike wheat and gar miller cards.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I have bought several cards from both. Both are usually right on with the grading or within one grade (which isn't bad compared to others). Mike Wheat has a wider selection, so I would have to recommend him very highly. In fact, I just bought a T5 Pinkerton Cabinet of Connie Mack from him (after buying several Cracker Jack and Exhibit cards the past month or two).

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Posted By: <b>scott</b><p> i'm actually checking out a number of his crackerjacks myself.the wagner's very tempting but guilt and my girlfiend kicking my butt keep me from it<br /><br /> scott

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Since 1981, I have known and bought, sold, and traded cards<br />with Kevin Savage of Ohio. And, I rate him as just about the<br />best in terms of honest dealing and consistency in his grading<br />of "raw cards". He is a real credit to the Hobby.

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Posted By: <b>Andy Cook</b><p>Mark Macrae is a great guy to buy raw cards from.<br /><br />Andy

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I've got nothing but good things to say about both Mike Wheat and Gar Miller. While I'll openly admit there is a little bias towards Gar (I'm the one that developed and maintains his site, and have been doing so in exchange for baseball cards since 2003), I have also made purchases from Mike Wheat and was VERY pleased with the dealings.<br /><br />That said, while I can't speak for Mike Wheat's site, I know that Gar has a great deal of inventory that isn't actually on his site. Last year I asked him what he knew about the '47 Smith's Clothing set, and within about a week 20 of the 25 cards were in my mailbox <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> Anyway, my point here, is that if there is something specific you're looking for, email Gar directly.<br /><br /><br />Hope this helps!<br /><br />Richard.<br /><a href="http://www.richardarmstrong.ca" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.richardarmstrong.ca</a><br />

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I have found Mike Wheat's cards to be consistently off by one grade too high. Being off by one grade can be quite significant, of course. This is a card described by Mike Wheat as VG, which would be graded no higher than a 2 (Good) by SGC/GAI/PSA, because it has a full horizonal crease along the bottom third and a top-right corner crease:<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86841&item=5156215958&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86841&item=5156215958&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V</a><br /><br />Even by Mike Wheat's own grading standards, this card does not qualify as Very Good: "Very Good (VG) Often, cards in this category will contain a light crease. Corners may show moderate wear. Card may be printed significantly off-center." Rather, this card is cleary "Good" by Wheat's own grading standards: "Good May exhibit two moderate creases or one crease which breaks the paper surface. The player's image should be clear, however."<br /><br />That being said, Mike Wheat has a great selection of cards and you usually know what you are getting by making a purchase. I just wouldn't take his word on grade if you were considering having a card slabbed.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I wouldn't hesitate to buy raw cards from Mike Wheat or Kit Young - both would give refunds if you thought the cards were trimmed. Same for Lew Lipset or Barry Sloate. I also recommend the Burkes because of the way they handled a situation involving a card. Regarding Mastro, I have won many raw lots from them and never had to return anything.<br /><br />The key to dealing with any of them is how you handle the "bad" situations - always be pleasant when you request a refund. Attacking as if they intentionally screwed you will generally not yield favorable results.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I second Scott's vote for Kit Young. While not pre-WW1, I bought some '54 Red Hearts from him last year sometime, and was very happy. In one instance, one of the cards arrived and had writing on the back (that I was not informed about). When I mentioned this to Bob Ivanjack, he wasted no time in fixing the situation.<br /><br />As for the Burke's, I've never heard of them. Scott -- do you have some more information about them -- a website perhaps?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Richard.<br /><a href="http://www.richardarmstrong.ca" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.richardarmstrong.ca</a>

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p><a href="http://www.auctionscc.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.auctionscc.com</a>/

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Posted By: <b>scott</b><p> i was surprised kit young has a decent selection of pre 1920 material including an e95 mathewson i'm considering.<br /> scott

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>Steve Verkman will deal if necessary and does have a wealth of knowledge.<br /><br />You have to know him and as long as its not a rediculous request , he usually will accommodate. I wont mention some of the raw guys that never deal or think that because you yourself is asking of a certain card that is all of a sudden becomes gold !<br /><br />In my carpet business ,I offer Michigan's Lowest Price and if one ask for a little more of a discount...1% of something is better then 0% of nothing !!!<br /><br />If the dealer has no sentiment to the card and is absolutely a dealer ,moving product should be most important. Some have harbored the same card in 2 consecutive years of advertising , maybe they just dont get it !

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I have been dealing with Mike Wheat for fifteen years and have always been happy with his product. He and his partner are always a pleasure to deal with over the phone and at shows. I wish he would resume his auctions, I used to grab some great items for fair prices. <br /><br />Wayne Varner of Shoebox Cards has a large selection or graded material but I always grab a few ungraded cards from him at shows (he seems to want to move this portion of his inventory). Most of his raw vintage is low-grade but priced to sell. I bought a T207 Marquard from him two weeks ago at the Robert Morris show for $20. Outside of the pinhole on the top of the card it had a VG appearance.<br /><br />Joe Colabella deals exclusively in vintage football and has definitely cornered the market on N302's. I have purchased some '35 Chicles and a some Diamond matchbooks from him. His prices are fair and he quickly responds to emails. He possesses a wealth of knowledge about vintage material and is always willing to answer questions even if it is not leading to a sale.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Can anyone provide ebay id's, if any, for some of the lesser known dealers who have been mentioned (eg Savage, Carobella). Thanks.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Kevin Savage's ebay identity is ksavagecards.<br /><br />Joe Colabella's ebay identity is vintagefootballcardguy.

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Without a doubt, Gar Miller. He is honest, and his prices are extremely fair, and decent.I have purchased plenty of vintage cards from Gar. As well as, a 3x5 card signed by Jackie Robinson. <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine <br />

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Posted By: <b>Bob Marquette</b><p>I bought one of the nicest looking of those Cracker Jacks but my heart sunk when I received it as I thought the top edge was trimmed. I sent it in to PSA to be graded, just in case I was wrong, and sure enough it came back trimmed. I have dealt with Mike in the past and he has always been fair when a problem has arisen so I am sending the card back to him for him to look at. I will post the results, refund or not, on this board.