Slabbed cabinets

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>There are a number of 1 of a kind cabinets slabbed by PSA in the REA auction. Given the rarity of these how did PSA know what they were slabbing?

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>that was a rhetorical question?

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I assume that PSA labelled a particular photo based in part on the word and perceived reliability of the submitter, and that the submitter was not an average Joe.

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>The "august personage" of the submitter should not enter into the authentication question. Taking the submitter's word for it is not what these guys are paid to do. I suppose I can submit my boxing cabinet collection to PSA and have it slabbed without question because I am the submitter and wrote the book.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I am not a shill for PSA...<br /><br />but I can assure you that they do NOT just take the submitter's word for things.<br /><br />I submitted a CdV with all my typical documentation on the age of the item...<br /><br />including documentation from Mark Rucker (who literally wrote the book on CdV's) and Barry Sloate...<br /><br />and they STILL had to call in an outside expert for his opinion on everything before they would slab it...<br /><br />and even THEN they did NOT slab it exactly as I had requested, but in a much more "general" sense in order to be safe.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.lewisbaseballcards.com/classes/baseBallCard/images/920Lg.jpg"><br /><br />They labelled it as:<br /><br />1861-64 Cartes de Viste (with Henry Chadwick) - "AUTHENTIC"

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think all too often PSA (or other companies to a lesser extent) takes the word of so called "experts" rather than doing their homework. The biggest issue is that these experts, a lot of times, have a financial interest in the item(s) being graded or authenticated. I am only referring to cards in this case as we have talked about other sports things in this realm also. I have personally given SGC several items that I am sure are good and they wouldn't grade them because they didn't know enough about them. The Babe Ruth Headin' Home cards are one prime example. I argued till the cows came home, with some hobby experts in my corner at the last National, and they still wouldn't grade them. I guess that's a good thing.....but I didn't think so at the time.....and sort of don't now....IF it's in the SCD, and there is no question to authenticity, then I think they should holder them albeit maybe with a more generic type label ie....maybe a "ca." type date instead of an exact one. Just my opinion.....regards

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Nothing against you Hal, but you are not the owner or president of a major auction house and you have not been doing this 30 years. If Robby submitted that stuff, they would take his word for it without a blink. Same goes for Bill Mastro, Doug Allen, Ron Oser, Kevin struss. And I must say, rightfully so in my opinion. When the submitter's knowledge is much higher than the grader's and the reputation is there, they will grade it with no question. I submitted a K-bats to SGC years ago when Grady was there, he returned it as trimmed. It wasn't trimmed but I am a nobody to him. I consigned it to Mastro and told them it was rejected. Kevin took it over and had it slabbed as it should have been. I got raped on the grade but such is life. Hence one of the problems with grading, the grading companies should hire or consult with someone who is an expert if they are not knowledgable about a particular piece. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Dan: I know that I am not an auction house, but that's why I mentioned Barry Sloate and Mark Rucker. They are known experts in the field and Barry has run auctions for years.<br /><br />But I know what you mean. The way to get something slabbed is probably to let the biggest fish possible turn it in.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I wish I had the label from your cdv for my "collection" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Personally I would trust Hal's objective research (if the Reccius Wagner is representative) more than the word of someone who stands to make a ton of money by auctioning the item, whatever their purported "expertise" is. Particularly in the case of auction houses that apparently do not feel obliged to disclose the involvement of outside restoration services, etc.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>PASJD, I have to agree with you, Hal probably did much more extensive research than anyone else would have, unfotunately, the grading companies do not know him or of him and that is that. Hey, I know him and his word is good with me any day! Dan.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Actually, Dan, you are right about the end result but wrong about how you got there. <br /><br />In other words... the grading companies DO know who I am because I have personal correspondence with all of the graders and even the owners (Joe Orlando, Mike Baker, etc.) when I send in rare and valuable cards...<br /><br />but because they know me they know that I am NEVER going to send in a submission of 10,000 commons for grading... so I am NOT a potential "big money customer" in their way of thinking.<br /><br />Maybe I should submit everything as "Mr. X." from now on, since they seem to think he is someone special!! <br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Duly note that I said "in part" based on the word of the person who submitted the card.<br /><br />A woman had a rare card that one of the grading companies wouldn't grade because they hadn't either heard of the card or was unsure of its legitimacy as an issue. Though the cards weren't in the Standard Catalog, the issue was known and one of cards was auctioned by a big auction house. I forewarded her a scan of the auction page from that auction. This was used as evidence of the card's legitimacy for the grading card company.<br /><br />On the other hand, if the President of the auction house submitted it, saying what it was and that they had auctioned that issue before, the grading card would likely would not have required other evidence that it was a legitimate trading card.<br /><br />This was a few years ago, and I know that a bunch of the cards were offered by a different big auction house and likely the cards are now listed in the Standard Catalog.

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Sorry Hal, X is taken....but you can be Mr. "Y". Of course, it won't hide your secret identity when you put it on the Reccius Wagner.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>That is fine Hal but you are fairly new and they only know you as now. I think if you had been a player and an expensive player for many years, you would have been better off. They just aren't going to take your word for it where a 30 year player in the hobby will get the edge. Sorry, Dan.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>But that's my point Dan.<br /><br />They "know me"...<br /><br />but they just don't like what they know!<br /><br /><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Dan:<br /><br />My impression is that you and your dad have indeed been around the hobby for 30+ years...<br /><br />so did you have that sort of respect from PSA?<br /><br />(before the infamous incident, of course)<br /><br />Because your knowledge would certainly have been tremendous...<br /><br />but did the fact that you never submitted 2,000 cards at a time keep you from getting the good grades?<br /><br />Or did you feel like you were getting the benefit of the doubt?<br /><br />I am guessing that you trusted them and liked them somewhat - since you where shipping your Magie (that was it, wasn't it?) to them when the crap hit the fan.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Yes I see your point. You are correct, they know you but as a non-2000 card submitter. Well, they did not know me and pop at all. They were all newbies and we were nobodies as we do not submit thousands of cards. I think this is what you meant, if so, I agree with you 100%. PSA's first national was the the one pop was robbed at for $250K. Those pimple face punks didn't know anything then and haven't come far at all. During my PSA/Magie problem I even had 1 IDIOT suggest that the robbery (pops) never happened. Even though every long timer who was there knew it and another family (the Levins) were also hit. I love it when complete a$$holes say stuff that they know absolutely nothing about. Just a bunch of newbies.