Low PSA grade due to color?

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Posted By: <b>T206 Tinker orange background port</b><p>Here's a Tinker portrait that is the wrong color, what I'd classify as a print error. The scan isn't any too big, but is certainly looks much better than a 2. The seller doesn't like the grade, either. It's also a Hindu back, for what that's worth.<br /><br />Is the off color reason for the low grade? Does PSA have any qualifier for wrong or missing color? <br /><br />If that's the reason for low grade, I'm really confused about PSA. How can they call cards grade 4 or 5 MK when there's a black stamp all over the back? The qualifier tells the story? Not to me.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5190027288&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=5190027288&rd=1</a>

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>i almost bid on the same card because it is beautiful and looks seriously<br />undergraded---and has the Hindu back.<br />But the color is odd.<br />I'm hoping to get a better scan.<br />Let me know what you find out and i'll do the same.<br />In the meantime, i did bid on the Davis Hindu just to make me a little<br />patient, hopefully.<br /><br />all the best<br /><br />Barry Arnold

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Posted By: <b>vetekbob</b><p>Barry and T206 guy, he has another person do all the scans so it may take a day or two for him to get back to you in getting a better scan on the card. He lives about 30 mins from me and thats how I know such as I have spoken to him several times on the phone and talked with him in person as well in buying from him. Hes a good guy but just so you both know, his hands on experience like you both posess in dealing with raw is limited as he told me he wouldnt know a trimmed 206 from one that isnt so I dont know how much stock to put into it when he says in his listing that maybe it should be better than a 2 when all he basically handles are slabs. If he buys raw from someone which he doesnt like doing because he isnt as well versed as you both and many others on the board he sends them in to get slabbed. Heck if I could, I would scan it for you nice and big so you could see all you needed to on it. He goes out of his way to help and answer any question you have if he can but when talkin to him hes all about pop report and set registry. I hope he can provide the quality scans you need to help you in your decision. <br />Robert<br><br>basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>super help, Robert!<br /><br />glad that you could provide the inside information, since you know the <br />fella.<br /><br />sure can't beat the help we all get on this great board!<br /><br />all the best<br /><br />Barry

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...if he sees one wrinkle and there is a second somewhere, that is a 2. Scans on ebay don't show wrinkles. Here's my Jim Devlin with a number of spider wrinkles that are already hard to see in the scan below, but would be invisible in an ebay scan.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1114519268.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>xxx

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>it's time to:<br />1) For those who have never worn glasses, or wear contacts: get some reading glasses at local drug store<br />2)or, for those who already wear glasses, get bifocal glasses with a) the little windows or b) the smooth transition from distance to close up vision.<br />3) get bifocal contacts--expensive and a nuicence to put on (for some kinds).<br /><br />The more nearsighted you were to begin with, the more the lord will bless you with farsigtedness on top of it.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>The Tinker does look undergraded. The only problem is that we are relying on a small ebay scan that may not show some imperfections that resulted in the grade assigned. <br /><br />A lot of sellers will state that graded cards are sold "as-is". In many cases the sellers may not indicate the flaws not visible on an ebay scan. In this case we (as buyers) rely on the authenticating companies assigned grades. Most of the reputable sellers would probably disclose the flaws on lower graded cards if you send an email requesting further information. <br /><br />When you get to raw cards it's a completely different arena. Reputable sellers will typically disclose all flaws but then we run into that area of subjectivity where VG/EX to one person may be EX/MT to someone else and sellers may not feel obligated to disclose small creases because VG/EX cards (by definition of the grading services and others) are allowed to have creases. <br /><br />To me, a reputable seller will disclose all major flaws (crease, paper loss, etc) so that there are no hidden surprises that await the buyer.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>xxx

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />My post wasn't in response to your post rather it was a post that addressed the low grade by PSA on the Tinker card. I then threw in a few more comments about ebay and sellers. I'd hate to sell something on ebay where I didn't disclose all major defects because: <br /><br />1) I'd feel pretty bad about it if the buyer thought I was being dishonest about the condition of the card.<br /><br />2) I'd hate to see my name in this forum as a person with low grading standards because my standards are generally tougher than SGC and PSA. <br /><br />I do agree with you about getting a bit older and not seeing all that there is to see. In many cases I think that a lot of the sellers on ebay must be about 90 years old because they miss a lot of the basic flaws. I can't figure an excuse for the authenicating companies graders because I'm told they use some type of magnifying device. I suppose we should get ready because the the authenticating companies don't train there personnel too well. We'll probably see a new qualifier pretty soon the indicates BL (blurry image).

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>xxx

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Posted By: <b>vetekbob</b><p>I think everyone has brought up some very good points not just about this particular card but the process in general and you made me to think about some things in a different light and I appreciate that very much. I believe Bill when he says that " we can only see" one area of the card that has a noticeable problem and questions why it got the grade it did. Very hard to see things through a holder like they did prior to such. Hopefully more can be assertained from a better scan to follow from the card. But points well taken from all that has been shared.<br />Robert<br><br>basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>My post starting this thread was really aimed at PSA grading policies regarding an off-color card. <br /><br />I agree that trying to judge a card from its ebay picture is very hard, so we really can't say whether the 2 grade was due to creases or to the color.<br /><br />Does anyone have experience with PSA and off color cards?<br />

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Posted By: <b>Glenn</b><p>I think my Ruth looks like it would have received a 5 even with the appropriate color, so (based on this one card only) I'd say PSA only gives the slightest weight to color, maybe enough to knock a card down to the lower grade in a borderline case, but not otherwise a factor.<br /><br /><img src="http://img218.echo.cx/img218/4200/openingday0076xc.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I've removed my posts since they weren't specific answers to your question.

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>The card has a major printing flaw. Assuming that the submitter said "no qualifiers" the card should be graded down. I happen to think that the printing flaw is really cool and makes the card even more collectible and the bidders seem to agree, but the graders have no leeway in their system to address print variations, errors, scraps, etc. Just another reason to use an "authentic" grade.