T206 Plank on PSA's website

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Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>from the Mr. X collection looks trimmed to my bespeckled eyes. What do others think?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4391&universeid=314" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4391&universeid=314</a>

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>You might be right, but it is difficult to tell for sure from the scan.<br /><br />If we can't trust Mr. X and PSA, who can we trust?

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>PSA must really be feeling the heat to get more submissions in the vintage card market. This whole "Mr X collection" is kind of cheezy. I am all for items having great provenance, but who is Mr X? I can understanding labeling something as "Halper Collection" or "White Mountain" Collection, as it points to a special one time collection of great significance. If all of the cards were 8s and 9s, it would make sense, but not 1's and 4's. <br /><br />After reading the article, it seems as if they want readers to think that this was the only T206 "set" in existance. A chance to buy a collection like this as one or two lots shows up at least once or twice a year in catalog auctions. Not only that, but it is not really a "find" since the guy who owned it knew exactly what he had and has only had the cards since the 1980s. Last week I made a "find" of my 1984 Topps set that I put together from packs 20 years ago. <br /><br />This is the type of hype that I would expect from a flea market dealer, not a professional grading company. I certainly would not expect to see something like this from SGC.<br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>Dave H</b><p>I am new to collecting pre-war cards, with interest in T206 and T207. I have been collecting the 1957 Topps set PSA 8 for about 5 years and about half done. Once I finish I am planning to send my slabs back to PSA for reholdering the "Hobson Collection".<br /><br />I am now only interested in pre-war graded cards if they are SGC and it looks like I made the right decision. This PSA move smells of desperation.<br /><br />Mr. X will eventually be known. Human beings can't keep their mouths shut. It will be funny to see who it is.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>very cheezy - but Im not fooled at all - the collection actually belonged to Mr. T.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I laughed when I read Mr Schwartz's thread about his "find". IMO he should have posted that in the B/S/T section as it was clear he was hyping his "find" to potential buyers in this chatroom. As for PSA putting "Mr. X" on the holders who could blame them? They're in business to make money and if slabbing a high profile card (even if it's only high profile because of who owned it) gets them a little more publicity who cares?

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Posted By: <b>Greg Ecklund</b><p>Come on Scott, where is your sense of adventure?<br /><br />Just having a common T206 from the Mr.X Collection will lend my collection an sense of mystery that it is lacking right now. A simple Admiral Schlei card in PSA 3 will take on an air of the unknown...nay, even a hint of danger. <br /><br />I will, no doubt, stay up many a night staring at the slab and pondering the history of the card inside it. Oh if only those cards could talk! What stories they would tell about the mysterious Mr.X!

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>If it is a sense of adventure that you are looking for, maybe they should put a black cover over the card so not only can you guess at who "Mr X" is, but you can guess at what card is graded.<br /><br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>al davis</b><p>i agree with you, jack. even though it's a blurry scan, the top corners are unnaturally sharp compared to the rounded bottom corners. but psa (piece of sh@t authenticators) needs the hype. so be it.

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Posted By: <b>Greg Ecklund</b><p>Scott,<br />I think that is more adventure that one person could take! Just having the "Mr.X" name on the holder will make a card mysterious enough for me! I may have to get a special box to hold the "Mr.X" card though, as the few other T206's I have may become insanely jealous at having such a prestigious card in their midst.<br /><br />Have a good night,<br /><br />Greg

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I take back what I said about PSA. I should have clicked on the link before I posted. I had no idea that they actually put "MR X" on the slab. I thought they put the persons name on the slab, but that MR. X was only being used here. I wonder who's decision it was to put that on the slab? I wonder if there really is a Mr. X?

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Posted By: <b>tjschwartz</b><p>Card was already in an aged holder that only said 1911 Eddie Plank. I just had it re-slabbed. The whole idea of Mr. X was mine and Mr. X's. Wanted to have some fun. Am I trying to drum up interest in the collection? YOU BETCHA! What's wrong with that? Don't we see Hunt, Josh, etc on ESPN hyping up rare items in future auctions all the time? Been a vintage dealer and store owner for 17 years and deals like this don't come around too often.<br /><br />Make fun if you like. That's what I was doing with the whole Mr. X thing, having fun! Amazing how so many just assume because a rare card is found and graded, that it's trimmed. What about the PSA 5 Plank in Edwards' auction? That trimmed too? Last I checkled, it was at 30K with many weeks to go.<br /><br />It will find a ready home at a solid price. How come no one complained that Branca's awesome Plows and the rest were trimmed? Lots of PSA 8's Plows Christy's around, eh? C'mon guys, lighten up and have some fun. You don't have to buy any of them, but there are plenty emailing me that want to.<br /><br />I hardly think that PSA needs to drum up business. If you prefer SGC, great. They are a fine company, but we all know that PSA holders sell better. May be because of the Set Registry, but they do. I never read any PSA fans saying that SGC cards are trimmed. <br /><br />Have some fun in the hobby. The Mr. X deal is just that and has certainly drummed up a lot of conversation.<br /><br />TJ Schwartz

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Posted By: <b>Zach</b><p>comin from a blurry scan I dont know what to think but the top border seems to slightly go down hill from the top right corner to the top left corner...and no one thinks the psa5 plank is trimmed because it is clearly not... at least as far as I can tell

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Seriously, I don't think there's anything with having some fun. I'm neither the seller or the buyer of the Plank, so my opinion on the aethetics is beside the point. My only objection is that PSA doesn't allow me to put "He Hate Me" or "ARod is a phoney" on my labels.

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>things)--is it because the card is a bit blurry, or does Plank--not quite look like himself? Ot do my old eyes fail me?<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/BFCpla001.jpg"> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/PLFT.jpg"> The T206 was a PSA 2, I think--and it's also blurry (one of my first scans).

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Posted By: <b>Glenn</b><p>I found "Mr. X" with old friend google. Apparently he's some sort of cartoonist-pornographer. Now we know.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>If you read the article, only the Plank and Magee are getting the Mr X Collection label. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>The whole point of provenance is to establish that it went through the hands of someone famous or expert in the field. If you don't tell who it is, the whole thing is self-defeating. <br /><br />Now if it was "Racer X", you might have something...Go Speed Racer!

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p><b><i>Amazing how so many just assume because a rare card is found and graded, that it's trimmed.</i></b><br><br><br /><br />This is a ridiculous statement, no one here has mentioned that the Magie card pictured is trimmed. There are a TON of trimmed T206's in PSA holders. We do not think they are trimmed because they are rare, we think they are trimmed because they are trimmed. How about giving us a nice scan here of your Plank. It would be good advertising for you. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I doubt the Mr.X Plank is trimmed. More often than not PSA get's it right. Of course that could mean 49% are wrong....just kiddin'. I would imagine the vast majority are fine. I do think they don't know vintage as well as SGC but we have pretty much not only beat, but buried, that horse. As for the Mr.X designation I don't think it's a great idea. Yes, marketing and hype can help sell stuff but I don't think this sets a good precedent. When I sell my collection am I going to get PSA (right?) to put "From the Leon Luckey Collection" on it? Or if Tbob sells his is he going to get the "From the Trophy Bob Collection" on those holders? I hope not. I can see it now...every darn screwball now wants his name on a stupid holder. And I think someone said "PSA holders sell better". My only question is what did the holders grade? "Blurry 8", or "warped 7", how about "scratched 6". Can you actually slab a holder? The more I am in the hobby the less I like grading.... regards

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I agree with you on most points except that Tbob will somehow incorporate the word 'FRIGGIN'(tm) into his slabs........<br /><br />Maybe it was Malcolm X and it isn't really dead.......OR.....it's either Spike Lee or Denzel Washington, since they have ties to the move Malcolm X. Conspiracy theories abound.........<br /><br />Trimmed or not, I'd take EITHER the Magie OR the Plank........I also need the Demmitt and O'Hara.........

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Posted By: <b>Ray</b><p>why are they so different if they were slabbed at the same time?

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm sitting here trying to think exactly why I find the Mr X designation so utterly ridiculous, and while I can't put my finger on it, I think it is funny because PSA went to the trouble to add this to the label and it in fact tells us absolutely nothing at all. It adds no cache, doesn't reveal the previous owner, doesn't even let us know if there was anything of importance we should know about this Mr X. Was his collection special, or no better or worse than any other collection in the hobby? Like Seinfeld was a "show about nothing", this is a label about nothing. Nothing whatsoever is enhanced by having that extra line of type on it. It's comical for sure, and I think PSA is just playing a joke on us.

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>So what happens when the next famous-guy-who-doesn't-want-to-be-known gets his collection slabbed? Is it the Mr. Y collection? Personally I thought TJ was pulling our leg when he said that it was going on the slab. Pretty stupid in my humble opinion, I would probably have PSA reslab it and remove the name if I owned it because it would be my card, not Mr. X's.

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Posted By: <b>TJ Schwartz</b><p>First off, as previously mentioned, only the Plank and Magie have the Mr. X tag. I bet the buyer doesn't get it reslabbed. Just an opinion, but for $5, the winner could.<br /><br />Secondly, PSA has done this thing before upon request, but ONLY on super rare or high end graded, very low pop report, high dollar cards. They would not place anyone's name or title on say, a PSA 6 T-206 Cobb.I'm sure they would with a PSA 10, if it existed.<br /><br />Thirdly, the Mr. X designation is doing exactly what I felt it would, invoke conversation, posiitive or negative. As Wrigley once said, "There is no such thing as bad publicity as long as they spell your name right."<br /><br />Card is definitely not trimmed. PSA guarantees their cards as we all know. They buy back mistakes and everyone makes them. They are not gambling with this high a dollar card. And please don't tell me that SGC doesn't make mistakes. TJS

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The difference between a PSA and SGC mistake is that SGC owns up to their mistakes. PSA tries to sweep it under the rug and make it go away until they end up in court. Just my observations of the 2 compaies.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Mr. Schwartz, The fact that you don't care whether the publicity for this stunt is positive or negative says a lot about your standing in this hobby in my eyes.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I won't begrudge TJ for making money the best way he knows how, but it's kind of like naming rights for a stadium. The Yankees, who make oodles of dough, haven't changed the Stadium name to Adidas Park or Utz Potato Chip Field, though they could've scored big on that one. They understand the value in not doing so. SGC just graded the best Cracker Jack set in existence. Thankfully they knew better than to slab Uncle Joe Whomever on their holders for that set.<br /><br />Finally, I have owned over 100 SGC and PSA graded T206 cards in recent years, and have held many more others. SGC is by far the most consistent grader. It's not even close. When I first starting posting on this board, I was a defender of PSA. Then I started accumulating more and more PSA graded T206 cards on ebay and grew more and more disappointed with their inconsistency. I just don't have any level of trust purchasing PSA graded T206 cards anymore. The only good thing is you can always find a buyer -- at least for now -- if you don't like what you end up with. With SGC, I never have that worry and I've never had reason to have that worry.<br /><br />My only fear is that PSA has so much market share that so many investors have put so much money into that they will be unwilling to move out of PSA and into a more sensible grading company; that SGC will eventually lose the battle of the graders and we'll all be stuck with something we don't want.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p><b><i>PSA guarantees their cards as we all know</i></b><br><br><br />This is priceless! Will the person who had the fake Ruth slabbed by PSA please care to comment on this statement??? I bought a T205 shean off of ebay that was labelled Cubs but the card inside was Rustlers (no picture). I trusted the grader since there was no picture. I took this to PSA and what did they do for me??? re-slab it with the proper team. So they corrected their mistake and I was out $100. This is the 2nd bright statement that you have made. Yes SGC makes mistakes but it is how you handle those mistakes that separates the 2 companies by a mile! Please show a nice scan of the Plank and let us decide for ourselves.

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Posted By: <b>Mike P.</b><p>PSA opened the floodgates on the pedigree thing. Anybody can pay a price to get their collections name on a slab. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?universeid=314&artid=4315" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?universeid=314&artid=4315</a>

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Now it is apparent that the Mr. X thing was just some silly service that is offered to anyone. <br /><br />If I ever buy one of those pedigree cards with a vanity label at the top, I'm going to have it crossed over out of there faster than you can say "ILUVSGC"...<br /><br />My label would probably say, "My Other Wagner Is An SGC 70"...<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>We neede to get t-shirts with for the National, lol<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>Scott M</b><p>After having read the following <A HREF="http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1113585404&lp=1113698591" target="_blank">thread</A> my vote for Mr. X's identity is Bill Maher <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I think we ought to focus on the real absurdity here: "Mr. X" doesn't tell me jacks*** about provenance. For all we know, Mr. X is someone whose cards you wouldn't not want to advertise you own...<br /><br />My vote is on Michael Jackson...and who know WHAT was done with those cards <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>TJ's idea is creating discussion, but it cannot help the value of this card. I can't imagine the new owner wanting Mr. X's name on the holder.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p><br />Its only 2 cards labeled as such. A total of $10 bucks to get them reslabbed.<br /><br />Lay off the guy.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>If I were buying a slabbed PSA card, all I would look for is an insert that isn't floating around too much and to be able to tell through the plastic that it isn't trimmed. The label itself is fairly meaningless.

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Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>So does that mean you guys won't be bidding on my E98 Wagner on ebay which is slabbed from the "Friend of Bill Clinton Collection?" I'm hurt.... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Greg Ecklund</b><p>It depends on what the meaning of the word "bid" is

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Posted By: <b>Darren_Duet</b><p>I agree with Barry. Initially and instinctively I felt the Mr. X label was just plain a bad idea. Now that I've let is soak, I know it is a bad idea. I think the card will sell for less in than an identical card in a PSA 4 holder without the Mr. X notation. Maybe a chance for us who don't buy holder's to get an elusive card at a great price.

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Posted By: <b>WP</b><p>TJ,<br /> Great collection however, the top edge on the Plank is highly unusual. As for PSA selling better than SGC your auctions will be a good indicator. I will bet that your Plank PSA 4 sells for far less than the SGC 4 that Barry Sloate sold. I think if you check recent auctions (Mastro) you will see that the SGC cards are often times outselling PSA. The fact that the integrity of the SGC product is higher is creating a huge demand for the product.

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Posted By: <b>TJ Schwartz</b><p>My standing in the hobby? Pretty funny. <br /><br />I guess many don't know me and that's fine. I created and still write the 'On Your Side' consumer protection column in Tuff Stuff since 1992. I am the Editor-At-Large and the Vintage Autograph Price Guide Editor as well. In the past 13 years, I've personally helped thousands of collectors recoup lost monies from various rip-offs and scams. I do it for FREE! Feel free to go to my web site imonyourside.com to read columns dating back 5-7 years. I never mention this when I do card business, but when my integrity is challenged, I will.<br /><br />I also co-hosted the Memorabilia Hour on Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA's show for 10 years. [show is done now.] I've owned and operated Porky's BB Cards & Autographs, Inc in N. Hollywood, CA since 1988. I am a red power seller on eBay with 100% FB. Not too many 1000FB+ PS's with 100% these days. <br /><br />My standing after 17 years in the hobby is just fine, thank you.<br /><br />Feel free to have fun at my expense. This was supposed to be a fun little idea. You would have though I had some vulgarity or racial slur on the holder by some of the reactions I've read here. To say that a PSA 4 Plank will sell for less because it says Mr. X Collection on the label is just utterly inane. What would I care if the label on a card I desired said ANYTHING? For 5 clams, I could remove it! The CARD would be what I'm buying, but with some kind of different designation, to me, it would forever make that particular card stand out from the rest. <br /><br />I know most of you prefer SGC. Go for it. I prefer PSA. Different strokes...Interesting in that all the Branca cards and the Awesome Leaf set in Mastro's recent auction are all in PSA holders. Prices seemed to be kinda good, eh? Have over 2 dozen buyers froim this site interested and the SCD full page interview with me and my ads haven't even hit yet.<br /><br />BTW, Have a PSA 8 1932 US Caramel Joe Cronin on eBay right now along with many '33 Goudeys 7's and others from Mr. X. Don't worry, as they don't say Mr. X! lol ! <br /><br />User ID is tjschwartzsports, if interested. Will be listing 4 Hassan Triple folders, including a Christy and a Cobb in PSA 6 on Friday. TJS<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>what a cardboard resume - everyone put your opinions back in your pockets.<br /><br />...will you be signing bobbleheads at the National?

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Posted By: <b>Darren J. Duet</b><p>Any press is good press.

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Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>this thread was started for self promotion purposes only....not to inform, educate, or discuss. <br />that's wrong, but leon let it go due to the size of your purchase.<br />tj...<br />how is this pertinant???<br />"BTW, Have a PSA 8 1932 US Caramel Joe Cronin on eBay right now along with many '33 Goudeys 7's and others from Mr. X. Don't worry, as they don't say Mr. X! lol ! <br /><br />User ID is tjschwartzsports, if interested. Will be listing 4 Hassan Triple folders, including a Christy and a Cobb in PSA 6 on Friday. TJS"<br /><br />lol my ass. this shouldn't be a forum to advertise.<br />leon????????????

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Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>now scott. you do make me LOL. signing bobbleheads right next to mr mint!

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The reason I let this thread go is because if it's "newsworthiness." If something is news in the hobby chances are I will let it go. No different, in my mind, than the recent PSA thread. I will not let a lot of Buy/Sell/Trade stuff happen on the regular board though....not me, you, or anyone...now if I decide to sell my whole collection, or Hal does, or JC does, etc....then that could be an interesting thread....Sorry to have to personally make those calls but that's what I have to do....Hope everyone understands.....I try to opt for not censoring stuff first.......take care<br /><br />ps...btw, TJ you have used your privilege and I hope there is no more promoting in the main body of the forum....there is a B/S/T area for that...

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Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>thanks leon. board is doing great, thanks a bunch.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>WOW! that is some resume! I am impressed. Who is this guy again???? If you have 100% feedback as a seller, that means you do not leave negatives for non-paying bidders. That is where most sellers get their negatives, in retaliation.

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Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>A quick check with toolhaus shows he has left 1977 feedbacks, but not a single negative or neutral. How does he get only the good buyers/sellers?

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Posted By: <b>William Brumbach</b><p>I attended the PSA Set Registry luncheon as a guest last year and the issue of pedigreed labelling was brought up at one point during the Q/A session at the end. I am also certain that one of the caveats to the pedigree designation is that they are numbered separately on the label (from the regular submissions) and as such cannot be added to the PSA Set Registry. This rub may have been changed in the past year, I don not know.<br /><br />While clearly an accomplishment, I don't know if I would consider getting a set of mid-grade T206's graded as a collection per se. My personal idea of a collection worthy of any sort of pedigree labelling would include names like Halper or Branca, or whoever has the autographed cards in the REA right now. Kind of odd that only two cards out of the whole set would get the Mister X designation.<br /><br />And yes, I did get a nice PSA hat and tee shirt last year. The t-shirt is especially nice since I can wear it all of the time yet put another shirt over it to cover it up. I expect a pair of PSA boxers this year to complete the set.<br /><br />BTW, maybe it's because I'm a pharmacist, but when I hear PSA the first thing I think of is Prostate Specific Antigen...

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Posted By: <b>John J. Grillo</b><p>Unbelieveable...sorry do not comment much here, just lurk mostly but I couldn't believe the direction this thread was heading. Lay off the guy. Some here have the analogy that everyone else's cards are up for public scrutiny on this forum but not their own. Before you ask TJ to show a scan of the T-206, why don't know make all your cards available for viewing on line...all it takes is for 1 or 2 people to start a "rumor" of a trimmed card (that they'll never no for sure) that an honest seller is trying to sell.<br /><br />Wow, the guy gets criticized for having 100% positive feedback...give me a break. If he had a 99.3% feedback rating, you would be all over his a-- about the 5 negs he got last month...talk about a double-edged sword<br /><br />I am not an expert in the T-206s (I have only the Red Sox guys in PSA slabs) so I am not an expert and rely on many on this board for their expertise, and I hope to learn more in the future. I was thought this was unfair to the individual who started the thread.<br /><br />.

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Posted By: <b>TJ Schwartz</b><p>Leon: Thanks. No more promoting here.<br /><br />Thanks also to those that were nice to me on here. As to my FB record. I never filed any negatives because I file a non-payer notice instead if I get stiffed. BTW, I've only had that happen less than 10 times in all my 1500 deals. Read my FB and see why. I pay the same day an auction ends and I ship within 3 days of receiving payment. We insure everything, both ways and have only had 1 package lost in 4 years. <br /><br />My hobby reputation enhances a buyer's motivation to bid and pay as they know they will receive exactly what they buy and it will be perfectly packed and shipped. It IS funny getting criticized about a perfect 1000+ FB record though. <br /><br />That's it guys. I'm done. Thought I was having fun and yes, I was promoting the sale. Bid if you like or don't. Best to all. TJS

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Posted By: <b>Josh Evans</b><p>Hysterical<br /><br />Lots of noses out of joint for reasons I do not sure why<br />Good thing is that people care so much, good thing is TJ did exactly what he wanted to do, call attention to his cards (although I am not sure he expected THIS)<br /><br />By the way, I know who Mr. X is<br />And yes, he does exist (made moot based on my previous statement)<br />He has been a client for many years <br /><br />No I will not tell <br />Josh

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>John, the whole eBay feedback system is a total joke. TJ says he doesn leave negs beucase he just files a non-bidder report. What he's probably not telling you is that he is not leaving the neg for fear of the getting the usualy retaliatory neg. Thus he maintains 100% feedback. <br /><br />TJ, not saying you don't have a great rep. you do, I know who are from before I got out of the hobby, but don't brag about your feedback when you aren't willing to use the system properly. By you not leaving a neg for these people, you let repeat offenders get off the hook. I've cancelled bids from people who have a habit of non-payment. If you aren't willing to neg nonpayers, then the feedback system isn't working the way it should and you bragging about 100% feedback is laughable. <br /><br />Best of luck to you.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't think anyone doubts Mr. X exists, but if he chooses to remain anonymous on the label, I go back to my original point: what cache does the label add to the card? And isn't the term "anonymous celebrity" sort of an oxymoron? For the sake of the pedigree, he can't be both famous and unknown at the same time. If he wishes to remain anonymous, fine, but if he wants his collection to be special because he once owned it, then he should reveal his name. It just can't work both ways.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I don't think the point TJ is making has anything to do with Mr.X. As he said he was just trying to have some fun and get exposure. He has done that. Forget about the rest of it and it makes sense....regards...(how bout the new high bidder?-inside joke)

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>...edited, because I'm repeating what's been said already by others

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I agree with you Barry. I’ve received scans of both the Plank and the Magie. I think the whole label thing is kind of silly and very late night shopping channel. I plan on bidding if the expectations on the cards aren’t to high, which I believe they will be. But you’re absolutely right Barry. You cant be famous and anonymous at the same time unless you’re a super hero, so until Batman or Green Lantern’s cards are for sale just label it what it is a 1909 T206.<br /><br /><br />P.S. I don’t think a set of T206’s especially a Plank and Magie need any extra excitement. I think it’s really exciting on their own. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>are we seriously giving people crap now for having perfect feedback?!?!?!

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Well put Jay, at least someone understood my post about feedback. I pay immediately and ship the same day, but if someone doesn't pay, than I clobber their feedback so the next seller can see what a deadbeat they are. You only have had about 10 non-payers? well, that is 10 negatives for you if you would have used the system correctly. And I agree, you have an outstanding rating. But you are not doing your job for fellow sellers. What is the big deal about asking for a nice scan of the Plank??? That would have put the original post to rest. I will gladly scan you any of my cards that are cataloged.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hey Leon- TJ can have all the fun and exposure he wants, but why did PSA create this label? How do they know if Mr. X exists, and how much latitude will others get? Can I get a card slabbed which reads: "Inventory of Barry Sloate?" Then when I sell it, the new owner can resubmit it and have his name replaced, and so it goes.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>More to do with his desire to be a third rate Madison Ave wannabee.<br /><br />He slipped this one by the B/S/T under the guise of a newsworthy story.<br /><br />Every time he opens his mouth, he exposes his contrived tale, and expertise.<br /><br />Leon, experience is the best teacher, don't miss out on this learning experience.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Experience IS the best teacher. How about helping ANYONE on the board with yours instead of continually causing havoc? Your incessant inuendo's about trivial matters and horseplay with rhymes and words does no one any good. Could you just once try to help? YOU have a lot of experience and we could learn from it. I don't remember ONE post where you have tried to help someone although there could be "one", I guess. .....take care

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Posted By: <b>steve k</b><p>I say we start a national boycott of TJ's Mister X ebay auctions. Maybe all the cards would sell for less than $10 each - that'll teach Schwartz a lesson. And if some Steve K guy with the same name as me wins all the lots, that was just a coincidence - it wasn't me :)

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Posted By: <b>davidcycelabck</b><p>While I don't find aethetically pleasing 'Mr X' at the top of the label, it's a free country and Mr. Schwartz can do as he chooses. Of all the hobby issues to get hot over, this seems to be a minor one at best.

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>Let me get back and concentrate on the enjoyment of vintage card collecting.<br /><br />I don't beat around the bush, and I don't tip toe through the tulips.<br />If I see that a set is not complete, I will not join a feelgood daisey chain to say that it is.<br />To each his own, I don't have a problem with that.<br />The last thing I am, is anyone's flunky.<br /><br />You were taken in by an amateurs newsworthy story, and it is sinking in slowly.<br /><br />I'm going to do both of us a favor.<br /><br />You can enjoy your current: "Is this real?"/Slab Haven direction.<br /><br />I can again enjoy the chase for vintage cards real up close, without the distraction of which grader is better.<br /><br />Best wishes, and REGARDS to all.<br /><br />Joe P.<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Mr. Schwartz, I called your standing in the hobby into question because I do know who you are, as does everyone here. Your lame attempt at passing this off as a major find and then stating that you don't care if you get negative publicity as long as you get publicity is rather ironic considering you built your reputation as someone who was on the side of the collector. The PSA story says you basically pleaded with this guy to sell his cards to you for the past five years, yet you came here and said you made a "major find". It was third rate hucksterism. And rather transparent.

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Posted By: <b>WP</b><p>TJ,<br /> I give you credit for coming into this den of fire. Good luck with the cards only I do wish they were in SGC holders.

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>Jay and others, <br /><br />Your lack of professionalism in this matter is beyond disgusting. Who cares if these cards are in an SGC, PSA, etc holder, as you ALL claim on a regular basis, BUY THE CARD, NOT THE SLAB!!!! That has been stated by each of you on countless occasions. This guy TJ seems like a good guy, a person whom has paid his dues to the vintage market for years and looks out for young collectors as well as OLD, such as yourselves: OLD. If only you could spend some of your negative energy doing positive in the World than targeting this guy. Who cares about the cards, if you are not interested, then simply do not bid and shut up about it. I have never seen a group of folks complain more than the likes of you and some of the others on the network 54 strand, it is sad. You are sad. If it makes you that crazy about the going-on's about the vintage market, then leave it. Walk away. I have a feeling that this strand as well as the vintage market will be a better place because of it. For now, keep this saying in mind: "Lose lips, sink ships", it is an old Navy saying, it applies 100% here.<br /><br />Regards, Sean.<br />

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Sean, not sure why you are singling me out. I made a post about which grading company is more honorable, another about making a t-shirt and one more about eBay feedback. I never said anything derogatory, just pointed out the fact that TJ is doing a disservice by bot giving nonpayers negs and this is most likely the reason he has 100% feedback that he was bragging about.<br /><br />TJ is just trying to create some hype for his current buy. What people are having a problem with is calling this a "find", especially in light of what was written in the PSA article. And also the way he went about hyping this. He could done a better job that would have offended fewer people. You live and learn. I don't begrudge him hyping this buy, but I do have a problem, as many with how he went about it. It typical saleman fashion, he bent the truth a bit. That is never good business in the long run.<br /><br />If everyone left the hobby, as you suggest, that is disturbed by TJ's action, this hobby would much worse off, rahter than better off, as many knowledgable people would be gone from the hobby.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>TJ Schwartz</b><p>First off, thanks to Josh [He does know!], Sean, WP, David, Leon and anyone else out there who gets it. Sincerely appreciated!<br /><br />Jay: I know you too. Maybe 10 deals gone awry in 4 years out of a couple thousand and you're condemning me? Do you see how many successful ebay deals I've done? You are hilarious!<br /><br />Joe P.: Please come out to CA and say that to my FACE! Don't hide behind an initial and a keyboard. Madison Ave. wannabe? I'm from the Bronx, NYC. Before I got into this hobby, I was VP of 3 different 100 million dollar companies as Director of Sales and Marketing, my college major. I've already BEEN there, Pal! BTW, to clarify, that's no physical threat, just an invitation to debate in person.<br /><br />Dan: You're obviously not a businessman! Promotion is what it';s all about. Just ask Josh, Hunt, Rosen, or Trump, etc. We've seen them all on TV, hyping something they're selling. So, it's fine and dandy on ESPN, but on what I thought was a friendly vintage chat room, it's NOT? Saw my friend, Josh's mug just the other day on ESPN. Seen Hunt many times. Anyone think Trump NEEDS the revenue from The Apprentice? He hypes something he's involved with every show. Why not critisize HIM too? My pal, Alan Rosen helped us ALL through the early years with many appearances on Good Morning America. Al is the Master of promotion, signed mini-bats and bobble heads and all. You may laugh at him [I DON'T] , but HE'S laughing all the way to the bank.<br /><br />After a few weeks on this site, I've learned a few things: There are some really good guys up here as my emails have shown. There are also a ton of [place your own adjective here] on here. Don't know about this group, but I work 14 hours a day in the HOBBY and am typing this at 12:45 AM after a 10 hour day at my store. I try to have a good time with my profession. I will not let you negative types bother me at all, but I WILL not sit back and get abused over this. <br /><br />Thanks also to the many that have emailed me in support. You know who you are and so do I. I will not forget it. While many here will not bid on cards because 2 of them say the dreaded Mr. X, many have emailed me that they will and some have asked for time to save up. I'll say it again. If I needed a rare card to frinish my set, I could care LESS what name might be on the holder! I've got $5. Don't you?<br /><br />Now all you attackers can continue blasting me for daring to promote a big deal and having fun. Methinks this site is no longer fun for me. I've been a VERY opinionated columnist for 14 years now. I'm used to emails and phone calls that disagree with me. Good and healthy, as I know they are reading my stuff, agree or not. You see, I publish my email and phone number beneath every column and have done so since 1992. I welcome comments from my readers, good or bad and asnwer them ALL. <br /><br />SEE YA! TJS

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>The thread was started about the Plank card. How about a scan of the card? It may actually help you in this manner.<br /><br />One thing I don't understand about the mr. X thing as a promotional venture. It seems to like you are trying to something with a halloween mask on. Does this help to sell anything but the mask? Why not sell your cards for what they are, a collection of T206 cards with 2 of the rarities, that sell themselves.<br /><br />Just my observations of the whole situation.<br /><br />Lee<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>TJ;<br /><br />I understand all to well sales. I also understand hype. But lets face it when you made the post “Complete T206 Set Found” no set was found it was purchased from a long time collector. It wasn’t found in an attic or shoebox. This was a purchase you made or tried to make for many years, which finally came to fruition. <br /><br />I have a decent collection will PSA slab my T206’s from the Wonkaticket collection. Many people had a very good point (which you have missed). When you label something the Mr. X collection your giving provenance to something. But not knowing who Mr. X is destroys any meaning behind the provenance which you make reference too. <br /><br />This is just another sad example of grading companies and dealers creating rarities. This stuff falls under the “one of only 13 examples with only 11 higher” crap. The sad part is these cards need no hype or added rarities shtick; it’s a T206 Plank and Magie enough said. <br /><br />Tj, Lets not get out of hand comparing yourself to Donald Trump. Yes its true he uses the school of business if you don’t tell everyone your successful how will they know. But he also manages to declare bankruptcy every 2-3 years. <br /><br />I wish you luck with your auctions; it just seems for a guy who just made a major business purchase, and who has run several 100 million dollar companies sales and marketing efforts. You would have better things to do than have pissing matches with the people on this board. <br /><br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/large/t206plankfront.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/large/t206plankrev.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>To Sean- I actually think this has been an interesting thread. Clearly the Mr. X label is unusual to say the least and it is just elicting many opinions from people like myself who are baffled by it. And to TJ, and I'm not sure I know you, I don't think you are being attacked; however, whatever you hoped to achieve with the Mr. X label doesn't quite seem to be catching on, and I'm not even certain of its promotional value. In what way does it help you sell the collection? I'll say it again, it tells the buyer absolutely nothing. And what's the big secret? If people knew who owned this collection, that might help sell it. As it is, I'd say it neither helps nor hurts. I might also chime in and add the hobby may suffer from overpromotion. For all the good Alan Rosen may or may not have done for this industry, he's turned his business into a three-ring circus and I don't believe everyone is fond of that. I would venture there are many who would much prefer a lower key approach to the hobby.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>TJ, etc. - this isn't a board composed of people who think exactly alike, so if you are going to come here and try to hype your wares, you should be prepared for anything. It's not like this board hasn't bashed the hell out of people in the past, especially when high-dollar items are involved like your Plank, or when a perceived policy change is being made by a major grading company. <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mike P.</b><p>Again for those who missed it, the "Mr. X" thing is nothing extraordinary. Anyone can pay a fee and have a name printed on the slab (see above article I posted from PSAs website). If you want the "Wonka Ticket Collection" onthe slab it can be yours.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>that's why I used the word "perceived"

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>So he called a big buy a "find" or has PSA put a silly label on the slab for hype. So this is all a bit shameless. TJ has not hurt anybody or misrepresented what he is selling in any way. He is NOT trying to sell fake or altered cards. He is not trying to rip anybody off. He is simply a businessman trying to hype his product. I would not personally do it the way he has, but I don't think he deserves the attacks he has gotten here.<br />JimB<br /><br />p.s. Slipping in plugs for other cards at the end of one of his other messages in this thread was obnoxiously shameless.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I agree for the most part, but you aren't going to change the "personality" of this board. On a positive note, if you check other boards on the web I think you will find that we are less shark-like than 99% of them.

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Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>i must agree with jimb.<br />100%. <br />tj hasn't done anything really wrong and isn't (imo) really deserving of all this. i never would have chimmed in until he started to plug ebay listings that had nothing to do with this post. i thought that was way out of bounds.<br /><br /><br />edited to include my name <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I found this thread very amusing. I think anytime you try and do something different, you get picked on. <br /><br />This is a Board where people trade information and discuss vintage trading cards and rarely do I see anyone trying to promote themselves the way T.J has. He stirred the pot by first off telling us about the collection, then tried to make us guess who Mr. X (by not telling us, we had to start a guessing thread) is and then promoted everything else that he would soon be selling. <br /><br />How was he going to win on this board? We treated him like Mr. Mint and his show 'look at me' antics. Give the guy credit, half the board probably didn't know him and now do. <br /><br />I think we all think of this business as a very 'serious one' and there really isn't much room for fun. I take it seriously because this isn't the Beanie Baby business. This is a business where I've spent as much as $10,000 for an item. Do we need or want carnival barkers? Does this happen at the Guggenheim? <br /><br />Do I think the 'Mr. X' label is cheesy? I think it's the cheasiest thing that I have ever seen to be honest with you. But what T.J did was get his point across (with expected attacks) and provided us all with something to think about and brought attention to his collection. Would I ever do this it? Ahh...Fun is overrated. <br /><br />As far as the Plank goes, looks okay to me. <br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Forum Members,<br /><br />IMO, I believe "Mr.X"'s true identity could be Billy Crystal. Other than Charlie Sheen, Billy Crystal is the only other Hollywood celebrity that I know of, who collects baseball memorabilia. After all, Billy Crystal did plunk down $200K, for a Mantle game used glove from the 1960's at the Barry Halper auction, back in 1999. <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Ask TJ how he hypes stuff...in the past he would hype stuff for Tuff Stuff that was being sold in his shop. Many Los Angeles area collectors (not all) and many Los Angeles dealers (again, not all) know this fact and often complained about it within the hobby. But that is for another thread. TJ is great at hype. He did not find the set...he worked on buying it for a significant amount of time. Is it a significant set...not really other than some of the truly rare cards. Are these cards any different than any others? Nope...that is why if I ever get my hands on that Gretzky/McNall card, I shall break it out...there should be no extra value attached just because of a label...Pure hype and PSA should be ashamed. Should he be slammed for hyping his cards...not at all...but let him do it at a sale/auction not just to toot his own horn. Get your own website if you want to do that...<br /><br />Did David Levin hype his Old Judges...in my opinion, no...he just posted he had a large find and then sold them...did not come on here and insist they be called "Oregon Find Levin Old Judges" on any graded copies. <br /><br />TJ reminds me of Mr. Mint...lots of bluster over little pieces of cardboard.<br /><br />This is just all my opinion.<br /><br />Joshua<br /><br />(obviously tired of hype)

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If it were Billy Crystal- and I know you are just taking a stab at it- that's great and I think collectors would love to own something that once belonged to a beloved figure and baseball fan. But something that belonged to Mr. X- why should I care?

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>I believe that he accomplished what he set out to do. And with the little controversy, we helped him achieve his objective.<br /><br />I do not take this field of baseball card collecting as serious as some of you, but then for me it is collecting, not a business, nor an investment.<br /><br />I fully realize that $10,000 if far less of an expenditure to many than it is to me. The thought that I could consider exchanging that level of purchasing power for a baseball card is totally alien to me. However, I can (barely) visualize having sufficient funds and no pressing needs that such a purchase could be feasible. I wonder how my view of the field of baseball cards would change if my available funds for card buying were an order of magnitude greater.<br /><br />Thinking about it - I am quite happy with my collecting focus. I would probably seek cards in better condition, where now I pass on the higher priced items, unless I can't. Id also probably get cards faster.<br /><br />Well thanks for listening to more rambling.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Since a scan has been produced, here is my opinion.<br /><br />I can not say for sure if it is trimmed from the scan but there are some signs that worry me specifically why are the corners sharp but also have wear?<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>manymanymanymkany posts ago is now clarified by the big scan: his mouth is sightly out of register, which is what made be think he didn't look "Quite like himself," from the small, indistinct scan on the PSA site.

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Posted By: <b>Scott M</b><p>Theres nothing wrong with having a little fun in this hobby. <br /><br />I certainly was trying to have a little fun with my "guess" that Mr. X was Bill Maher based on another thread regarding his comments on the "manliness" of adult baseball card collectors.<br /><br />If TJ and Mr. X wanted to have a little fun and PSA now allows "vanity slabs" then no harm no foul in my eyes. <br /><br />It wouldn't deter me from buying any Mr.X cards but I do agree with Barry and others who have tried to make the point that the monicker doesn't add any value.<br /><br />Yes, its generated plenty of conversation on this board but I can't imagine anyone saying "Oh boy, I have to get one of those cards owned by Mr. X!"<br /><br />As far as the "attacks" on TJ. I honestly think this thread has been pretty civil. I think that if it got too personal Leon then would be stepping in.<br /><br />Yes, there have been some comments about TJs ebay feedback and how it remains 100% but they were basically in response to TJs post where he felt the need to respond to valid comments regarding the Mr. X label by listing his "credentials".<br /><br />I don't have a problem with what TJ did but I also don't feel that this thread has been that hard on him. I think there have been some pretty valid opinions expressed, thats all.<br /><br />Just sharing mine...<br /><br />Scott M<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>TJ<br><br><br />"Dan - you are not a businessman" ok, not sure where that came from. You are correct, I am a collector. I have no problem at all with the hype or Mr. X stuff, I just asked for a scan so we could see if it was trimmed. Though I don't agree with everything you say, I do agree that there is nothing really wrong with what you have done. Thanks for the scan, my opinion on the Plank - NOT trimmed. And this is the 2nd time you have left this thread but keep coming back. 1st time "That's it guys. I'm done." then "SEE YA!". I would like you to stay, you seem like a nice guy. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Poor Poor TJ.<br /><br />Some of you guys are amazing; nobody is picking on or taking cheap shots at TJ (except Joe P ouch). In the short time I’ve been here this board and some of it’s members have accused major auction houses of selling fake Old Judge Proofs, Shill Bidding and crooked auction practices. But giving a guy a little grief about a goofy label that’s crossing the line <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/-46.gif">, lighten up! LOL<br /><br />I myself was just expressing my views on the whole vanity label topic as well as pointing out the way TJ twisted a purchase into a huge hobby find. <br /><br />TJ knows this board he didn’t accidentally stumble on this site and say “wow these guys would love to here about these cards how lucky for me to find such a place!” . He knew this was a place where he could list his goods like (ebay) and expose them to many collectors of vintage cards. This is not ebay it’s a topic discussion forum on pre-war cards. Guess what when you post people are going to discuss. If you not comfortable with that list them on (ebay) where potential buyers can’t express opinions good or bad. <br /><br />Nobody is saying the products are no good, some people are just saying they don’t like the packaging that’s all. And if that hurts his feelings well as a businessman he should know you cant sell all the potential customers with a single program. <br /><br />Just curious if everyone here would be so concerned with feelings, if I or another fellow board member went about selling and hyping our collection in the manner that he has. <br /><br /><br />I also did not think the Plank was trimmed that's why I posted the scan for him to hopefully clear that concern many board members had.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>Well-said John. If I were to purchase a Cracker Jack set, have it graded by PSA, then announce it on this board, along with my planned "runscott" special PSA label...holy cow...I hate to think of the abuse I would get! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />...this is starting to sound like fun. Anyone willing to make me a loan?

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>John well put, I think that TJ has done as much attacking of people on this board as anyone. These were opinions on a subject he brought to our attention and other than Joe P. they were not attacking him just his methods of promotion.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Dan McKee, I'm sure his response to "Dan" was to me. I still think he had no intentions on this board other than to use us to hype his "find". He did not come here to educate, learn, or share. He came here to use us and he concocted a story that differs from the account given on the PSA site. Then the so-called watchdog for the collector pegged my irony meter when he claimed he didn't care if he got negative publicity from this as long as he gets publicity. I really could care less about the "Mr X" or his 100% feedback, I am offended that he took us for suckers.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>thanks dan, that makes sense, i was wondering why he would be attacking me. Hey, great first name you have, dan.