graded or ungraded cards

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Posted By: <b>scott</b><p> do you usually buy graded or ungraded?does it depend on price of the card and where you buy it?...ebay etc.i'm not asking for advice just what the collestors on the forum prefer.<br /> thanks, scott

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>For expensive cards, I always buy graded to ensure that I'm not getting trimmed. People are greedy and greedy people trim cards.<br /><br />Now, here's the question: how fast can we turn this thread into a PSA bashing-fest?

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Posted By: <b>Bryan Long</b><p>I would much rather have SGC graded cards. I know that there are a number of members that would rather have their cards ungraded but I am a clutz when it comes to cards. They are dropped every now and then. Plus, I like the holders. I don't really care for the grade, I just rather have them in the holder for protection if nothing else, plus it makes them look better in my eyes.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I'll risk a "Scott-bashing"-fest, and express my own opinion, which happens to be slightly different from yours. <br /><br />I almost NEVER buy high-grade expensive cards in slabs, because there is a high likelihood that they ARE trimmed. I still don't understand how people can say that a slab "ensures" that the card isn't trimmed. The Tom Candiotti interview was especially stunning. I would rather buy raw and make my own determination - once behind plastic, even if it's obviously short, it is more difficult to check the edges for trimming. If the card comes from a reputable seller, especially if it's one you've done repeated business with, they won't mind taking back a raw card if you feel it's trimmed.<br /><br />&lt;&lt;People are greedy and greedy people trim cards.&gt;&gt; I agree with this and I also think that this greed leads such people to have those trimmed cards slabbed to add false legitimacy to the card's condition.<br /><br />&lt;&lt;Now, here's the question: how fast can we turn this thread into a PSA bashing-fest?&gt;&gt; Everyone's aware that you and others do not want our opinions on high-grade PSA slabs voiced on this board. To maintain harmony, I didn't mention any particular grading company in my reply above.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>I prefer raw cards. I like to touch them and know that I am holding in my hand something that existed long before I did. Graded is fine, but if you get raw cards, get them from reputable dealers and collectors. They would never try to push an item on you. They already know their wares are in demand.

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Posted By: <b>Glenn</b><p>I think it's pretty close to 50-50 for me. As a rule, any cards under $100 I buy raw. Anything else I buy graded. There have been exceptions both ways. I realize there's nothing inherently special about the number 100, but in my experience that happens to be about the level at which the competence of the graders begins to outweigh the honesty of the sellers.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>We are exact negatives of each other. If it is EX or less I don't mind buying in a slab. Anything over EX I'm hesitant to purchase except raw (preferred) or SGC.

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Posted By: <b>Glenn</b><p>Excellent! We shouldn't run into any problems trying to outbid each other down the road.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...is the way to go for me.<br /><br />But I, too, am leary of any cards graded higher than a 5, even when graded, for fear that the grading company missed the boat on an obvious tamper.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>GAI seems to miss some, which is why a few of the less reputable dealers will send their altered cards to GAI, especially caramels.<br /><br />I'm more concerned about the trim-jobs that are hard to spot raw, and even harder to spot behind plastic. It's no coincidence that a higher percentage of slabbed NM t206's measure short, than slabbed lower-grade cards.

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>"Cards---good. Grading---yuk."

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>As a collector of vintage cards I always purchase ungraded cards. At 24 years old, and a single father raising my daughter, my pockets are NOT YET deep enough, to afford a T-206 Cobb (port) PSA 7 OR a 1952 Topps Mantle PSA 8. All in due time, though.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Definitely have seen more problem cards in PSA holders but they do have significantly more cards circulating than any of the other grading companies. <br /><br />SGC is incredibly reliable and you can buy a card in their holder knowing that it has been thoroughly looked at for alterations. Feel the same about GAI and for someone to imply that Mike Baker is either inept or intentionally holdering altered cards is laughable.<br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Ungraded most of the time. I have yet to submit a card to a grading company. I feel that these companies have really prostituted our hobby and are partially responsible for the hyper-inflation that has been occuring in vintage material over the past few years. True collectors do not often fret over a wrinkle, a dinged corner, or a smudged back. I have a T206 Cobb bat off that would definitely grade poor. The image is presentable. My wife saved for three months to buy it for me when we were in grad school eating rice and beans. I means alot more to me than its potential value graded versus ungraded. I also have many rare vintage cards, because of their condition, would be "worth" alot more in today's market slabbed. If you are a short term investor buy graded and sell before the bubble bursts. I have purchased graded cards on Ebay, mostly to guarantee authenticity. My biggest dillema when they arrive is how to safely remove them from the holders.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Scott, I think you've got me wrong--bash PSA all you want as far as I'm concerned. I just happened to note that most people bash PSA once the subject of graded v. ungraded is brought up. You have an interesting take on when to buy graded which is completely opposite of my position. I think what did it for me was buying a raw 56 Mantle described as NM for $850 and sending it off to PSA only to come back as trimmed. I informed the seller and he told me to drop dead. Months later I got my money back from AMEX. Similarly, almost 80 percent of cards described as NM on ebay come back as Ex at best. And very few ebay sellers are willing to refund money, especially when they've just scammed you for big bucks by selling a card described as NM which really has a wrinkle that you can't see on a scan. I think the buyers that purchase raw cards in mid-range level condition have it much easier as sellers are less likely to lie about that condition. So, I've been forced to go the graded route simply because I collect high grade, entire sets one card at a time. I wish it didn't have to be that way but there's really no choice for me. That being said, I feel much more comfortable knowing that the huge amount of money I've laid out for cards over the past few years is somewhat guarded by the PSA or SGC slab around it.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>a few of the less reputable dealers...<br /><br />I seriously doubt altered cards ever get intentionally slabbed by GAI or SGC. From what I understand, Mike Baker is one of the best, and as we all know, some of these altered caramels (at least one) has also gotten by PSA and SGC. In the future, it seems quite possible that alteration techniques will advance quicker than the ability to detect them. Then what will we have in our slabs?

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I understand your position better now. If I collected expensive '50s cards, I would do the same thing you did, or make sure I bought raw from someone whose 'trim-spotting' skills I had faith in. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>