T9 Boxers

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Posted By: <b>FatBoy</b><p>This morning I emailed PSA suggesting weight factors on the T9 Turkey Red boxing set. Here is the email..<br /><br />Good morning PSA Registry,<br /><br />I feel we need to weight the T9 Turkey Red boxers and am suggesting it.<br /><br />The Jack Johnson card is clearly the key to the set and always commands a premium price.<br />There are rarities (Marto is especially tough to find and on many want lists).<br />There are black boxers which always bring a premium over a comparable white boxer.<br />There are both boxing HOFers as well as non Hofers.<br /><br />I'm sure I could help as well as the other T9 collectors on the registry. I also have other T9 collecting friends and acquaintances that would be willing to chip in their 2 cents.<br /><br />Let me know if I can be of help,<br /><br />Keith O'Leary<br /><br />They sent me a spread sheet asking me to fill in what I feel the weight factors should be. Anyone want to help? Here are my thoughts with suggested weight factor in (). I'll wait to hear from anyone who wants to put their 2 cents in before I send it back. Thanks all, Keith<br /><br />Jem Driscoll HOF (1.5)<br />Abe Attell HOF Black Sox association (2)<br />Ad Wolgast HOF (1.5)<br />Johnny Coulon HOF (1.5)<br />James Jeffires HOF (2)<br />Jack "Twin" Sullivan (1)<br />Battling Nelson HOF (1.5)<br />Packey McFarland HOF (1.5)<br />Tommy Murphy (1)<br />Owen Moran HOF (1.5)<br />Johnny Marto (just hard as hell to find) (2)<br />Jimmie Gardner (1)<br />Harry Lewis (1)<br />Willian Papke HOF (1.5)<br />Sam Langford HOF Black (2)<br />Knock Out Brown (1)<br />Stanley Ketchell HOF (1.5)<br />Joe Jeanette HOF Black (2)<br />Leach Cross (1)<br />Phil McGovern (1)<br />Battling Hurley (1)<br />Honey Melody (1)<br />Al Kaufman (1)<br />Willie Lewis (1)<br />Philadelphia Jack O'Brien HOF (1.5)<br />Jack Johnson HOF Black (5)<br /><br /><br />Adam?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>qualitycards.com</b><p>KEITH - Surprised you didn't mention this to me in out T3/T9 Emails today.<br />There are 26 T9 boxers, 14 are Hall Of Famers...<br />#51 Jem Driscoll<br /><br />#52 Abe Attell<br /><br />#53 Ad Wolgast<br /><br />#54 Johnny Coulan<br /><br />#55 James Jeffries<br /><br />#57 Battling Nelson<br /><br />#58 Packy McFarland<br /><br />#60 Owen Moran<br /><br />#64 Wm. Papke<br /><br />#65 Sam Langford<br /><br />#57 Stanley Ketchel<br /><br />#68 Joe Jeanette<br /><br />#75 Philly Jack O' Brien<br /><br />#76 Jack Johnson<br /><br />Four of these HOFers are more valuable<br />#76 Johnson (grade weight 8)<br />#55 Jeffries (grade weight 4)<br />#67 Ketchel (grade weight 3)<br />#42 Attell (grade weight 3)<br /><br />Then I would list the Black Hof'ers like Jeanatte & Langford as 2's<br />White Hof'ers and other Black non Hof'ers as 1.5's and the rest as 1's<br />Plus 2 or 2.5 for Marto - Thats how I would weigh them...jay<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John J. Grillo</b><p>I agree that Jack Johnson commands a premium in this set and the prices realized for black boxers do well against their white counterparts, but with one exception. Abe Attell should be weighted second only to Jack Johnson. Besides being involved in the Black Sox scandal...for a time Abe Attell was noted as "pound for pound" the best boxer in the world...he was a darn great fighter in his own right, and while Jeanette, et al were great fighters, they were not quite near the caliber of Attell in my opinion.<br /><br />Johnson - 5<br />Attell - 2.5 or 3.0<br />Jeanette 2.0<br />

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>In terms of pricing on this set, there are three factors: ethnicity, popularity and scarcity. Johnson is the key to the set both for popularity and ethnicity reasons. From there down the valuation is murkier. I'd say that the popularity and ethnicity issues create a run like this:<br /><br />Top Tier: Johnson<br />Next Tier: Jeffries, Attell, Ketchel, Langford, Jeannette <br />Next Tier: HOFers and Jewish fighters (Cross, Willie Lewis, Harry Lewis)<br />Final Tier: everyone else<br /><br />Unfortunately, collectors do not place the same weight on HOF status in boxing as they do in baseball, so that is not a major factor in analysis. <br /><br />In terms of scarcity, because these cards were ordered, the "worst" boxers are the rarest cards. Marto is tough, but no tougher than some other fighters. Over the last 18 months I have records of the following number of transactions per card (excluding full set or near set sales):<br /><br />5: Jeffries, Jack Sullivan, Ketchel, Mellody <br />4: Johnson<br />3: Langford, O'Brien, Nelson, Wolgast<br />2: Driscoll, McFarland, Gardner<br />1: Attell, Murphy, Moran, Marto, Brown, Hurley, Willie Lewis, Kaufman<br />0: Harry Lewis, Papke, Jeannette, Cross, McGovern<br /><br />From a pricing perspective, adjusted for condition, I'd weight Johnson twice as highly as the next tier (lousy cards of his are pulling over $200 each). Everyone else is spotty in lower grades; they all pull big bucks in higher grades.

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Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>Some great discussion here so far, I appreciate our moderator's good discretion for allowing a quality non-baseball discussion fly here. <br /><br />On an unrelated note (surely I couldnt start another thread), did you guys catch that lorillard's boxing card on ebay a few weeks ago? I realize that I need to buy Adam's book cause I'm sure it's in there, but for the time being, would anyone care to comment on the scarcity of that issue?

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Posted By: <b>FatBoy</b><p>Ben, I'm going to guess because I didn't see it that it was a Mechanic's Delight Boxer and not the boxing position cards?<br /><br />There was a small group of these found about a year ago. Mastro has been selling them in lots of 5 or so on and off. Very hard to find, they were bringing $750-1000 per in nice condition if memory serves me correctly.<br /><br />And yes Ben, I appreciate Leon's leniency on this thread also. I was going to email a couple of knowledgeables on this, but wanted as much input as I could get and didn't want to miss anyone that wanted a say.<br /><br />Keith<br />

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>A very rare set indeed. I have one and I paid heavily for it. The one on Ebay was chewed up and still topped $200. A decent card from the set easily pulls in $500-$1,000. <br /><br />And while we are on the T3/T9 set, there is a PSA 5 ex Coulon up for auction on Ebay right now. Look in the boxing cards section (not mine nor do I have any financial interest in it, the card just looks real nice and could use a good home). <br /><br />Anyone who wants my book, please email me for details.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>a few auctions back. I don't remember them going that high, but I took them off my watch list early on.

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Posted By: <b>martin dalziel</b><p><br />Keith or anyone else for that matter,<br /><br />What is the purpose of developing a weight scale for PSA Registry?<br /><br />I don't do Registry but can only assume that weight factors are used to determine the overall grade of the set? The only other thing i can think of it being used for is by PSA to charge more for grading, but doubt thats the reason.<br /><br />