WG7 Walter Mails Game Set- New Set information

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I was just checking out the current Mastronet auction and was taking a look at the Walter Mails set that they are currently offering. I found something interesting, and somewhat exciting. It has nothing to do with the fact that PSA mislabeled at least 5 of the cards in the set with the completely wrong names- the cards aren't the ones indicated by the holder (see Oeschgar, O'Neil, Sewell, Shea, and Shupe).<br /><br />Anybody that follows this set knows that the cards come with two distinct back colors, RED or BLUE. The general concensus is that the RED backed cards are much easier to find than the BLUE backed cards. Up until now, it was generally assumed that the two sets were just the same with a minor back color change. A year or two ago by brother and I purchased an entire set of these cards (I currently still own 29 of the cards from the set), all of which had the rarer BLUE back. The set being auctioned in the current Mastro auction has the RED backs, and I have found many cards that have minor to major caption differences between these sets (including Bancroft which lists him (on the BLUE back) for the BOSTON BROWNS??- and corrected to BOSTON BRAVES(not in all caps) on the RED back. But more importantly there appears to be some cards that the photos were cropped differently, including the Guy Morton card (which was always my favorite card in the set), which has a completely diffent set-up between the two sets. Take a look at the pictures...<br /><br />FIRST: the pictures from Mastro (RED backs)<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1112829049.JPG"> <br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1112829111.JPG"> <br /><br /><br />SECOND: My cards (BLUE backs)<br /><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/kremerwg7.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/mortonwg7.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/bancroftwg7.JPG"><br /><br /><br />Given the differences, I would venture to say that the BLUE backed cards were the earlier (and in lesser quantities) of the two printings (included errors-Bancroft), which later was somewhat reformatted, and corrected in the RED backed cards.<br />Opinions? Thoughts?<br /><br />Take Care,<br />-Rhett Yeakley

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Nice observations. Very cool sets. I think I got one, or both, of mine from you. At any rate thanks for the info....regards

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>You may be right about which came first. Can you share any more info/larger scans of the players, Rhett? One of the reasons I ask is that Dave Bancroft did not manage the Boston Braves until 1924, yet apparently both blue and red back WMails identify him with Boston. This set is listed by the guides as having been issued in 1923. Is there a copyright date of 1923 somewhere in the game or on the cards? Is this similar to the Leaf 1948-1949 situation?<br /><br />Bancroft was acquired by Boston on 11/12/23 in a 4 player trade that included Oeschger, who went to the Giants. What team is Oeschger shown with?<br /><br />Any info appreciated.

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Posted By: <b>Rhett</b><p>The set is absolutely a 1924 set, not sure where the 1923 date came from.<br />The following players are all shown with their 1924 clubs, in the last years with that club...<br />-Guy Morton, Cleveland (pitched in only 12 innings, last year in majors)<br />-Joe Bush, Yankees (played for StL-AL in 1925)<br />-Pat Duncan, Reds (1924 was last year in majors)<br />-Walter Schmidt, Pittsburgh (was with StL-NL in 1925, was out of majors the next yr.)<br />-James Tierney, Boston NL (1924 first and only year with Boston)<br /><br /><br />The following players played for a different team in 1923, and are shown with their new 1924 Clubs...<br />-James Tierney, Boston NL (mentioned above, 1924 only yr. w/ Boston NL)<br />-Ray Kremer, Pittsburgh (made his ML debut on 4/18/1924)--interesting to note that the picture portion has his signature and underneath it it says "Oak baseball club" refering to the Oakland Oaks team-who he played for the previous season.<br />-Elmer Jacobs, Cubs (was out of the majors from 1921-23, but made a comeback with the Cubs in 1924-1925)<br /><br />The following are shown as managers in the set, and both started managing in 1924...<br />-Dave Bancroft, Boston NL (managed Braves from 1924-1927)<br />-George Sisler, St. Louis Browns (the BLUE card lists him as MGR. and First base; hard to tell but it doesn't look ike the RED back version lists him as a Mgr.)<br /><br />The unusal card in the set is that of Ray Frnch, the front of the card lists him as "Brooklyns $10,000 Infielder", but he played for Brooklyn only briefly in 1923, and batted only .219. He was with Chi-AL in 1924, but may have been a late season pickup for them (after the set was produced), he hit a whopping .179 for them and was out of the majors for good. Definately NOT worth the $10,000 Brooklyn spent for him.<br /><br />I feel there is pretty conclusive evidence that the set was a 1924 production, not a 1923 set, as stated in the books.<br />-Rhett Yeakley<br /><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/sislerwg7.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/frenchwg7.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/tierneywg7.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Nice work, Rhett!<br /><br />I will forward this to Bob Lemke so that he can change it and have it accurately reflected in the 2006 catalog!!

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>for the clarification. Interesting to see that the Tierney card shows him with Boston in the caption and yet the script below his fac auto has him with his 1923 team Philadelphia. Between that and the French card it seems as if the cards may have been at least designed in 1923.

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Posted By: <b>Rhett</b><p>Even more interesting about the BLUE backed Tierney is that the the team "Philadelphia" on the front has been removed on the RED version currently in the Mastronet auction.<br />-Rhett<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1112898317.JPG">