Counterfeit expert requested

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Anyone know if this card is known to be counterfeited or reprinted and what to look for?<br /><br />Thank you in advance for any responses.<br /><br />1929 Churchman's Cigarettes #25 Babe Ruth<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1111453883.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I'm not aware that it was reprinted. Why do you think it might be a counterfeit?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>If it was reprinted or not but if you have the card you should be able to run your finger over it and have a real good idea if it "feels" like it's 75 years old. Also you can hold it in your hand, flat, and see if the gloss is somewhat uneven. It should be if it's real. If you have a 1920's caramel card it should have the same type of gloss as it does....You can also look at it under magnification and see if there are dots in the white borders...a sure sign it's a reprint....hope this helps a little....take care

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>David - When I look under a 10x lens, I see a honeycomb pattern like today's<br />modern cards and unlike the T-206s I have. I know there is about a 20-year <br />difference between the two cards, but did England use a different printing <br />process?<br /><br />Leon - there is an even dullness over the surface, and at a certain angle the<br />front looks like an old wrinkled painting (if that makes any sense).<br />Oh, and there are no dots on the white borders.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>If someone like Larry Frisch went out and did a formal lithograph reprint set using a professional house, the borders might have no dots. On the other hand, if someone took an online image of the card and printed a counterfeit on his computer printer, the white border would have the dot pattern.<br /><br />So, if there was no Larry Frisch-style reprint of the set (and I'm not aware of one), lack of a dot pattern in the white borders is a good sign.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>someone told me there were a lot of counterfits. I wasn't terribly interetsed, nor have I even seen one up close. obviously, if there are a lot fakes, there sre probably at least a few real ones, too--looks like you got a real one.

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>You mean the white borders would have a dot pattern within? <br />Or do you mean a dot pattern on the thin black border that surrounds the <br />picture?<br /><br />Also, according to Lemke's Baseball Card Catalog, these cards are supposed<br />to have black printing on the back. The one I have is more like a dark navy<br />blue.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>he means the white boarder. When people are maing fakes on their computer, etc the printer wants to create the color the white rather than just leave that area it's natural color.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Cool. Then it is more likely my card is authentic. But the honeycomb<br />pattern in the color field still bothers me. I might have to obtain a<br />common from that same set.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>With cards from England, you really don't have to worry a whole lot about fakes out there. England has had a long established card collecting society that literally hoarded thousands of each set as they came out. Finding high grade examples is not really that difficult. Unlike the US, where there wasn't a good core of collectors until the 50s and didn't really take off until about 1981.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Thanx, Jay. I feel much better now. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I haven't seen the card in person before, but it was made in 1929. The T206 pictures I show on my web site for for T206s and similar cards (E cards, ec). The Churchman was about 20 years later and were made in England.<br /><br />If the borders have no dot pattern, the card is probably fine.<br /><br />If you wish for me to look at in person I will happily do so and you can mail it with SASE to:&lt;br /&gt;

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I will see if I can provide closeup pictures first - mostly of the thin<br />black border.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>At this point, I would have to see it in person. I can't authenticate anything from scans.<br /><br />There are regular cases where a collector has doubts about the authenticity, or just wants to double check, and the item turns out to be genuine. And, as noted by several, there are no big signs or history that your card is a fake.