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02-06-2005, 07:24 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I've had a number of behind the scene email exchanges going on since the announce of this SCDA meeting. The recurring them that most people keep bringing up, and rightfully so is, why are the auction houses getting off so easy? <br /><br />This is as much their doing as the authenticators. With all the lack of disclosure that has been exposed, between not noting the fact that the authenticator owns the item for sale to the Keeler "stabilization", auction houses should be getting as much heat as the authenticators.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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02-08-2005, 10:18 AM
Posted By: <b>vikes 066</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />You bring up a point but remember the the auction house technically is somewhat of the "messenger". They sell (and get commissions on both ends mind you) what the authenicators say is real. Don't get me wrong it is pretty much assumed by many (and that list probably grows exponentially every day) on the inside that Mastro has known for years about Bushing's shenanigans and mistakes. <br /><br />However, it really has been brought out into the regular/general public eye by Plancich, O'Keefee and ESPN in the last few months. If you believe the guy (Fred Buddie?) on the ESPN Outside the Lines tape (in reference to Bushing's massacre of the DiMaggio glove) he said that many people have had a lot of doubts for years in the collectible world on key items. Why hasn't anyone said anything before? It's like a dirty little secret that no one wanted out there. A lot of people trusted a self proclaimed expert who according to his backers had no peers. Individually people are now coming to their own conclusions about the validity of those claims.<br /><br />Proving Mastro (or any auction house) knew that Bushing (or any other so called expert)authenticated anything that was not real would be very hard to prove since that would also require someone on the inside to turn against the auction house and show motive.<br /><br />The cold hard scientific/forensic facts easily can point out the numerous occasions where Bushing was dead wrong and not even close. That is why he is feeling the well deserved heat he is getting. The scary part is what other mistakes will come to the forefront next. No one's perfect that is what his cronies will say, but the relative easy mistakes that have been brought to light make many people want to think twice about how much expertise is really there vs. the allure and greed possibilities of a quick payday.<br /><br />Vikes066

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02-08-2005, 10:26 AM
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Yes, The auction house are middle men, but there reputation is what they have to uphold or they will end up going to the dogs. If you continually offer item of question the whole auction house is reflective of this. I would think it woould be in the best interest of the auction house to verify the authenticity of all items, whether it is an in-house (not if they own the item) or outside authenticator.<br /><br />Lee

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02-08-2005, 10:35 AM
Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>The auction houses absolutely get off light. The way things are set up now, no one is ultimately accountable. When there's a problem, the auction houses blame the authenticators for the mistakes because they are the experts. <br /><br />I mentioned in a thread over on the game used forum that auction houses should post which lots have been removed because of authentication errors. That would put more pressure on the authenticators to do their homework before jotting off a letter because their name is on the line, and the auction houses would compete over which has the more legit items.<br /><br />Here was the example I used.<br /><br />I think the best way to identify and track the mistakes would be fairly simple. <br />Example- I buy an Anthony Miller Chargers helmet from American Memorabilia with a Lampson letter. When I get the helmet, i notice it has the wrong facemask- it actually is a lineman's mask or tight end's mask, not a wide receiver's mask as it was claimed. I return it to American Memorabilia and get my money back. They lose their sale- At this point they should report it to Lampson and they also should post on the website that lot x has been retroactively removed because of an inaccurate authentication letter. That would give the auction houses more credibility as well. It would show that they want to put the best products out there only and stand behind those products.<br /><br />Anything there?<br />Eric<br />Game used memorabilia forum<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Index/33448" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Index/33448</a>

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02-08-2005, 10:38 AM
Posted By: <b>vikes 066</b><p>Lee,<br /><br />You are correct as well. The auction houses have responsibility to correct mistakes when brought out and to check out items to ensure their customers get what they pay for. <br /><br />Yes, the auction houses can no longer bury their heads in the proverbial sand now that all this controversy is swirling around about manufactured memorabilia. <br /><br />The underlying issue still goes back to the overall conflict of interest though with the auction houses. If Bushing is the "only" perceived expert and he has a hidden financial or personal stake in an item and then he authenticates it and Mastro sells it and collects commissions on it, how can you believe it is real? It always comes back to the money no matter how hard they try to get the arguement away from that. The waters are very murky. As long as someone is willing to pay, I am sure the auction house is willing to cash the check and deal with the fall out later. <br /><br />This check box crap on the back of LOA/COA is just that crap. If you are a company exec and you want to sell company stock, it has to be reported to the stock market. Until the auction houses make authenticators that sell report upfront that the person selling the item is the one that authenticated it this will go on until the end of time. Like I said before it always goes back to the money. If the auction house does list a potential conflict of interest up front, they may be afraid to keep high rollers away from an item thus depressing the value of the item, the sale and the all important both sides commission.<br /><br />It always comes back to the money.....

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02-08-2005, 11:08 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I love my little cards.......and sure glad I don't have a multi-million dollar memorabelia collection......sort of like collecting 90's Donruss in PSA 10 holders..I can also still see the auction houses saying they are somewhat like EBAY...just a venue to sell...and have no liabilites.....imo.....<br /><br />

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02-08-2005, 11:35 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Leon, the big difference between an auctioin house and eBay is that the auction house is the one writing the description. They are aware of certain very important facts, such as an authenticator owning the item in question, or "stalization" work being done on a piece and ommitting this key information from their descriptions.<br /><br />Hopefully, the days of a collector needing to be psychic in order to ask the proper questions will end soon. <br /><br />Jay<br /><br />Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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02-08-2005, 12:59 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Good point.....one I didn't think of when I posted....