Jay Miller - N172 Players League question

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />What do you think about the PL on the card that was in this auction? In your experience was the PL handwritten on the card or was the PL part of the text for the players information? In any case I guess this card would have been tough with or without the PL.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5160825609&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5160825609&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT</a><br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Fred

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Fred--The PL designation comes two ways, either at the end of the name label, as in the format "Ewing, C., New York (PL)", or written in on the lower right portion of the picture. I didn't have time to check my version of this so I don't know how the PL designation was presented on this card. The letters looked rather crude and large and not typeset in the name label, but the card could be fine and if it is it was a great buy by Joe.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Chances are this card is good. Daley was 3-3 with 9 appearances for the Boston Nationals in 1889 and 18-7 for Boston PL team. He played a few games the following year for the Boston AA team and never played again after that. Dont' why they make a card for a someone who only pitched 9 games, but would make sense to make a card of him in 1890 since he was a main starter for that team.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Jay--What are you talking about? The question is not whether a PL card exists--it does. The question is whether this is a normal 1889 card which was doctored to appear to be a much more valuable PL card.

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Posted By: <b>Joe_G.</b><p>I'm not sure whether the card is an 1889 or 1890 and decided not to bid early figuring it would go high. I'm not sure who "n172junky" is. However, (s)he lives close to me and has a similar eBay ID. The buyer made a nice purchase, . . . excellent if it's an authentic PL card.

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Thanks for the input. For the buyers sake I hope it's real. If not, the buyer still got a tough player card.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Jay does he exist without the PL designation? My point was that it seemed unlikely that he would have card issued other than when played in the PL given his career.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>JB,<br /><br />W. Daley, P. Boston - He has a PL card and a regular card. Only one pose. Tough in either respect I guess. The PL adds a heck of a hefty premium.

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Jay--All PL cards are ammended 1889 cards. There is no PL card that doesn't have a corresponding 1889 card (same for NL) so yes he has an 1889 card. BTW, even though he has but one pose he is not a scarce player. The number of poses of a particular player is not always related to that player's scarcity. Some of the scarcest players in the set have four or five poses.

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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>I sold the Old Judge card shown below some time ago, probably to one of you guys, and I always wondered about what I perceived as unusual about it. The card is of T.C. Nicholson of the St. Louis Whites. The line that contains his name has written: "B.8 T.C. Nicholson, 2nd B". I assumed the "B.8" referred to 8th in the batting order even though that would be odd since players, although rarely back then, would change batting order once in a while. So why put that on there? <br /><br />Have you seen this before? What else might it mean?<br /><br />Rob M.<br /><br /><img src="http://home.kc.rr.com/ramram/old%20judge%20nicholson.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>The St. Louis Whites were a MINOR league team ...<br /><br />so I wonder if the "B.8" is similar to the "PL" in that it stands for the name of the league or group???<br /><br />Maybe there were 8 teams in that minor league, and the league name started with a "B"???<br /><br />Like you, I doubt it stands for "Batting 8th"...<br /><br />but I have no clue what it could stand for.

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>That type of notation appears on many St Louis White cards with each player having a different number:<br /><br />Staley: B.5.<br />Cantz: B.6.<br />Nyce: B.7.<br />Nicholson: B.8.<br />Alcott: B.9.<br />Burch: B.10.<br /><br />Kenyon: B.12.<br />Hines: B.13.<br />Sproat: B.14.<br />Loftus: B.15.<br /><br />That makes it seem like 5 players are missing. There are four White's players: Beckley, Crooks, Herr and McCormack who are not known to have this type of notation on their cards. I did this quickly so I may have missed one. The bottom line is it seems to be some type of numbering system for White's players which somehow got included on the name line on some of the player's cards. Note--player's with this type of notation also have cards without the notation.<br /><br />BTW, I need that pose of Nicholson and would like to trade for it if you remember who you sold it to---Thanks, Jay

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p><br />.<br /><br />.