One that got away [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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01-26-2005, 02:35 PM

Posted By: jackgoodmanThere was a comment in another thread about someone picking up several hundred T206s at one time and that made me recall a time in 1987 when I was set up as a dealer at one of Bob Lee's local shows in Northern California. An older lady came in with a box of about 200 T206's in probably ex/ex+ condition (based on a quick thumb thru). I think T206 commons were in the guide at about $12-15 each. I asked her how much she wanted and she said $12 per card. With all of my "rightful" dealer indignation I said "you can't expect me to pay 100% of book!!!!!" She walked away. To this day, I kick myself whenever I think about this supreme lack of judgement on my part (ouch, that kick hurt!). Does anyone else have a "one that got away" story to make me feel better?

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01-26-2005, 02:55 PM

Posted By: Trae R.Ouch <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> You (and everyone else) would love that deal today, huh? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Speaking of which, Mr.Sloate, I think I am going to sell my truck and buy your T206 set listed for $27,500 - I'll just walk to work everyday and gloat over my awesome set the whole way there. haha

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01-26-2005, 03:57 PM

Posted By: Dan Koteleshaa?....who was Gary Gaetti ?

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01-26-2005, 04:01 PM

Posted By: BenI'll never forgive myself for passing on a trade that would have landed me an e107 Mcgraw <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-26-2005, 04:22 PM

Posted By: Jim ClarkeMe to on a E97 b/w Keeler card.. A pushy seller had to know at the time of call and would not wait 2 hours until I got home to figure out a possible trade.. You snooze you loose an old friend told me once... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Later JC

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01-26-2005, 04:45 PM

Posted By: AnonymousCirca 1976 or 77 when I was a teen, my family went on vacation down to Florida, driving from Illinois. On the way we stopped at a junk store in Georgia, run by a really old guy. I was about 13 and had almost no money, but I always asked at all those places if they had baseball cards, and unlike most places this place did. He had thousands, including about every Topps set up to the late 60's (maybe more, I don't know, they were in some little closet he wouldn't let me in) , the Fleer 60-61 set of baseball greats and a cigar box full of about 100 or more T 206's. I had never seen one then but knew it was old, recognizing Iron Man McGinnity's card. I bought it and another (Casey) for $2 each. I also bought the complete Cardinal team set from 1968 Topps for $1. My folks tried to discourage this habit of collecting cards, thinking it to be a waste of time and money, and would not loan me any $$. 2 years later we went back to Florida on vacation again, and I had been faithfully saving money the whole time, I was loaded with a couple hundred bucks. We stopped at the junk store, and found out the guy had died a month or so before, and his son had sold the baseball cards..... At least I've still got the McGinnity and Casey.....

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01-26-2005, 10:50 PM

Posted By: peteIt had to have been around 1992-93 back when prodigy ruled for internet bb card buying/trading. I met a friend of an older gentleman who had a ty cobb card but didn't know anything about it. I offered to meet him in Central NJ and I'd take a look at them for him. I met them at a macdonalds and this man had inherited a tobacco box of cards from a friend of his. It had hundreds of cards many non sports a bunch of e90-1's some hall of famers, some boxers, I remember a pirate back chinese character card and 2 complete sets of e94's minus 1 mcgraw. I easily could have bought them for a fair price but I blew it. I offered to help him sell the e94 sets in exchange for the other cards...I never heard from him again!

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01-26-2005, 10:54 PM

Posted By: peteAt the national in St Louis in 99 or so I saw some amazing things I blew! A letter from Uzit cigarettes with 4 cards attached one of which was a baseball card as a sample to a distributor...It was like $2200. Tik and Tik had these amazing samples of t206's adhered to ledger paper from the archives of the printer I'd imagine. There was a front view and the back view adhered to the paper. There was a carolina brights and some other uncommon backs...they were a few hundred bucks each. A Broad Leaf 460 back at a fort washington show years ago for $160. A Baltimore News/E94 for $150. Please stop me!

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01-27-2005, 12:57 AM

Posted By: jay behrensI had a chance around 1982 to buy a t206 Wagner with a huge chunk of the upper right corner missing for $1500. I was a poor 19 year old kid getting by on sailor's pay and no hope of getting that kind of money to buy the card. It's still the only Wagner I had a legitimate chance to own and one of only 2 I've ever held in my hand. The other one was a chance to buy a complete set of t206s, less the Big 3, in EX for $5000 in 1985. I bought a new car with the money instead. Jay Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-27-2005, 01:54 AM

Posted By: Joe P.jackgoodman: "One that got away There was a comment in another thread about someone picking up several hundred T206s at one time and that made me recall a time in 1987 when I was set up as a dealer at one of Bob Lee's local shows in Northern California. An older lady came in with a box of about 200 T206's in probably ex/ex+ condition (based on a quick thumb thru). I think T206 commons were in the guide at about $12-15 each. I asked her how much she wanted and she said $12 per card. With all of my "rightful" dealer indignation I said "you can't expect me to pay 100% of book!!!!!" She walked away. * * You've got the right year, right location, and it was a Bob Lee's show. I may have written about this some time back. It was during the time that I was working on the most loved by every T206 card collector set. I flew out to that show from NYC. (I worked for United Airlines) I liked multi hundreds tables shows, and Lee had them. It was a case of flying out for the first day of the show, and possibly flying out that night to another city, or flying back home. I was standing at a dealers table from Indiana (I wont mention his name.)looking at some T201's that I was interested in. From the corner of my eye I noticed a young couple come to the table and start talking with the dealer. I went on with my business, but I did notice that the couple had an old Hershey's cardboard chocolate box, from it I could see that the dealer was looking at some damn nice looking T206's. They were talking, and the dealer writes something on one of his blue business flyers and the couple walks away. Being that it was non of my business, I went on with my business. Later on, as I was giving the show my last run through, I spot the young couple in front of me. I politely introduced myself, and asked them if they still had the box of cards. I was elated to hear that they did. I asked them how much were they looking for. They produced the dealers blue flyer with a number written on it. The dealer had advised them to go around the show and if they still had them, to come back and they would talk. Let me just say that the dealer and the seller were just $500.00 apart, and that the asking price was damn reasonable even for 1987. At that point I suggested that we should go to the cafeteria. We sat while I briefly looked at a sampling. He also had a Beckett Guide with all the cards checked off that were in the box. There were a little over 800 T cards. A good representation of T206's - T205's and some other T's. They were a charming couple in the process of getting married. Agreeing to the price was not a problem. They were happy. I was happy, and the Hershey's chocolate box with the blue business flyer, had a new home. Believe it, or not. As I was exiting the show, I bumped into them again, and this time they had the parents of one of them with them. ... I greeted them, and they were also happy. I had to get to the airport, and you can bet your last dollar, ... it was going to be homeward bound. Couldn't wait to see what was in the rest of that box. I'm happy to say that it was one that didn't get away. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-27-2005, 06:40 AM

Posted By: jackgoodmanto pay that $12/per card now. How 'bout it??????? I can't believe there were over 800 cards. They must have only brought a portion over to me originally. Glad they found a good home though. I know what you mean about meddling into someone else's deal. There was a dealer affectionately called "big john" who used to set up at those shows with a museum of cards and memorabilia. His set-up would usually attract most walk-in material and I would hear him literally "stealing" cards from these people. I often wanted to shout out "wait I'll pay you more" but dealer ettiquette made me refrain (also he was one big son-of-a-****). How come you didn't come by my table and say hello?

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01-27-2005, 07:31 AM

Posted By: tbobI was at a large show in Kansas City in 1981 and a guy walking down the aisle stopped me and asked me if I would be interested in buying some T205s. I was collecting the T206 set at the time, having just plunged in to the vintage card hobby for the first time. I thought I certainly didn't need to start collecting another set, being a completist of sorts. He had about 45-50 T205s and all of them were in exmt condition or better. I looked through them and he told me he wanted $450 for them and I politely said no. "How about $350?" and I told him that I just didn't collect them. He thanked me, started to walk off, turned around and said, "ok, I am getting to ready to leave, how about $250?" I passed one more time, looking at the stack of cards in his hand. I don't remember now who all was in the stack but I will always be haunted by the one card I remember which was on the top of the stack, a near mint Matty. 24 years later that is still my worst nightmare, although at the National in '95 in St. Louis (my last one until this year when I am going to Chicago) I passed up 2 different Obak Buck Weaver cards for $75.00 each from 2 different dealers. One I remember appeared exmt but had a "diamond cut" but was otherwise gorgeous so I passed. The other was about vg+. Sheesh!

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01-27-2005, 09:03 AM

Posted By: jay behrensIf you guys wre at the big Bob Lee show in 87, that would have been the National. I was set up at that show. Wasn't a bad show for me. Got into my usual discussion with Mr Mint about not being his wholesaler after he wanted to cherry pick my cases but also scored nice group of 48 Bowman basketball. The lady had them in a binder. I flipepd thru looking to see what Mpls Lakers players were there, but didn't see a Mikan. I asked her if there were any other cards she had. She said, sure, the expensivce cards are in the side pocket. All the key cards, including the Mikan were sitting loose in the these side pockets. She said I was first person to ask for other cards, and my table wasn't exactly close to the entrance. I made her an offer and told her to check the rest of the show, then come back if she liked my offer best. She said she didn't want to carry the thing anymore and sold it to me <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Josh Evans, if you are reading this, you'll remember me as the guy that went to dinner with you, Mike Jasperson and Mike Maysenholder after one of the days of that show. Jay Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-27-2005, 12:20 PM

Posted By: Joe P."Hey Joe, I'm willing to pay that $12/per card now. How 'bout it???????" * * Jack - Make that $12.50, and it's a done deal. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> PS. In all my years, I've never meddled in a dealers deal, and I'm a collector. They pay for the tables to be there, and they carry the stuff in and out. My job as a good collector, was to lessen their burden whenever I could, ...... legally. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-27-2005, 04:39 PM

Posted By: warshawlawI nearly had a fistfight at a show in Anaheim about 14 years ago. I was set up next to this other dealer about 15 years older, a head shorter and much fatter than me. A customer standing just to the left of my table asks if I had a card. I did and he bought it. I think I made about $15. The dealer next to me pops a gut and starts yelling that I stole his customer because the guy was looking at something on his table (totally unrelated to what he asked me for, BTW) when he spoke to me. The pudgy moron came up and waggled his fist in my face and said "I could bury you!" I stood up and he ran away, but it spoiled the day for me. One issue I just thought of: if you are at a table and you see a dealer offered a deal by someone who obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and the dealer is in the process of cheating him, what should you do? Would it matter if the person involved was a kid or an elderly person who seemed to be of diminished capacity (not senile, just frail)?

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01-27-2005, 05:12 PM

Posted By: garySo about a year ago I see some guy selling some "old" cards in the paper. Luckily his location is 10 min from me. I called him and asked if he had other cards, and if I can see them. When I got there he took out a box of approx 500 tobacco cards (caramels , t206 , t205). He said he didn't know much about them only that he knew they were valuable. He picked them up at a garage sale for about 5000.00 from an old woman. So I go through them one by one, eyes wide...and salivating the whole time. I bought as many as I could afford, as he looked in a out-dated price guide...I bought about 200-250 from him...cobbs, wagners, mattys ...all the HOFs. He still has a MAGIE error that he sent off to PSA and it was graded EX 5. I am still trying to figure a way to get that one off him, and the others he has in his safe. Anyway here is the rub. I was going to go out to all the garale sales that morning that he bought the cards. I go out every weekend looking...and hoping for a great find. I come back to my house every weekend with nothing but a box of 1980's commons i bought for 2 bucks. But I didn't show up one weekend , and some guy who doesn't even like vintage cards in the least steals my garale sale find of a lifetime. Oh well....

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01-27-2005, 08:01 PM

Posted By: Joe P.What's a garale sale? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-28-2005, 06:49 AM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesAny garale under a buck three eighty is a good sale to me.

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01-28-2005, 07:10 AM

Posted By: leonI paid $2.10 for my last garale......

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01-28-2005, 10:01 AM

Posted By: Joe P.Related to Sara Lee?

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01-28-2005, 12:24 PM

Posted By: jay behrensI think he might be talking about the holy garale Jay Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-28-2005, 12:37 PM

Posted By: BillyI am no dealer, so I don't know what proper etiquitte is, but I think if you see a dealer trying to swindle a customer it is fair game to intervene. It's a free market out there and if you'd pay more than he would, to me that isnt "stealing", it's a smart business move.

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01-28-2005, 12:47 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellI don't know what proper etiquitte is, but I think if you see a dealer trying to swindle a customer it is fair game to intervene You just answered your own question about etiquette - butting in on a transaction, regardless of who's involved, is obnoxious. You don't get to decide what's a "swindle" and what isn't. Bill

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01-28-2005, 01:03 PM

Posted By: Billywhatever. I say you look out for #1. From a business perspective, if you let a dealer get a "great deal", and you don't intervene, not only do you lose a transaction that would benefit you, but you HELP a fellow dealer you are in direct competition with.

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01-28-2005, 01:12 PM

Posted By: Bill Cornellwhatever. I say you look out for #1. You'll go far with that attitude, Billy. You won't collect much, but you'll go far. What "business" are you talking about, exactly?

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01-28-2005, 01:38 PM

Posted By: leonI will be at the National and sharing a table with another board member. Everyone on the board is welcome at our table except you. Get the point? It's ok to look out for people but you shouldn't butt into other folks business. Those dealers pay good money for their tables and have thousands of hours invested in knowing what is and isn't a good deal. Is this info any less valuable than a lawyer that has a degree?....in that the lawyer probably has thousands of hours of classroom time in, in order to practice what they do. Don't get me wrong I think it's great to look out for each other on scams and so forth.....just don't butt into other folks business....These are just my thoughts and you will do as you wish....it's a free country....take care....

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01-28-2005, 01:47 PM

Posted By: BillyMan sorry for ruffling your feathers guys. I was just responding to a question posed by Warshawlaw "if you are at a table and you see a dealer offered a deal by someone who obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and the dealer is in the process of cheating him, what should you do? Would it matter if the person involved was a kid or an elderly person who seemed to be of diminished capacity (not senile, just frail)?" He asked "what should you do" I gave my opinion to a question posed. If you wanna disbar me from your table I could care less.

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01-28-2005, 02:15 PM

Posted By: leonIf you feel like butting in at our table consider yourself "disbarred". I am very happy you could care less. Makes me feel ok for being a dick......take care....

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01-28-2005, 02:17 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackI once placed a maximum $150 bid on an item in a MastroNet auction. I was the high bidder for over two days and had already cleared off a space on my mantle. On the third day in the 21 day auction, I had my coffee and checked the status. The high bid was at over $4,000. I've had many similar photo finishes at MastroNet.

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01-28-2005, 02:23 PM

Posted By: BillyDon't worry leon, I don't collect the low grades.

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01-28-2005, 03:07 PM

Posted By: sfmasherHere's a funny story I wrote about collecting and the one that got away. The story is in my latest book, Left-Handed Stories. Thought I'd share it with the group. Hope you like it. Best, Travis thesfmasher@yahoo.com ~~~~~~ Treasure Chest By Travis Jensen In the summer of ‘87, my mom packed me and my sister up into her old ’77 Buick Century station wagon and moved us from Chicago, Illinois to Denver, Colorado. She decided to move us there after being accepted into Denver University’s graduate program. She rented a small two bedroom duplex on South Gilpin Street, a half-mile or so away from campus. I befriended Joey Tranella the first day we moved in. He lived in the house next door with his father and two sisters. Joey’s father worked at the Flying Pie Pizzeria on University Ave., across the street from campus. I don’t know if Flying Pie is still in business or not, but to this day, I still consider it to be one of the best pizzas I’ve ever had. They served it just the way I like it, deep-dish, Chicago style. It reminded me of home. Not to mention, Joey’s dad always gave us free pizza whenever we came in, so that made it even all the better. There’s no pizza like free pizza. One afternoon that summer, I believe it was mid July, Joey and I decided to go up to Flying Pie to pay his father a visit. My mom had given me a couple bucks to eat with, but since Joey’s dad always gave us the pizza for free, I decided that I was going to spend that money on a couple packs of baseball cards instead. It was “dump day” in our area, so everybody had their junk out on the edge of the street awaiting pick up. Dump day was the one day a year in Denver that you could throw out all your old junk that the Goodwill didn’t want and the regular garbage men wouldn’t pick up. Each section of town had a different dump day and when it was your day, an enormous garbage truck nearly twice the size of a standard one would come huffing-n-puffing down the street with a cloud of black smoke billowing out of the exhaust and a team of three or four men dressed in blue jumpsuits hanging off the side. The truck would stop at each house and the men would jump off the side of the truck, load your junk into the compactor, and then proceed on to the next house. Joey and I rummaged through some of the junk piles along the way to the pizzeria. Most of the stuff had already been picked through. The only good things we found were a couple of old Playboy Magazine’s from the late 60s. Since we couldn’t risk carrying the magazines with us, we tore some of the better pictures out of them, folded them up, and shoved them in our back pockets to look at later. Joey’s dad was working the register at Flying Pie when we showed up. I ordered sausage and pepperoni; Joey had Canadian bacon and Pineapple. Afterwards, we stopped off at the 7-11 a few doors down. Joey played a game of Space Invaders and I bought two packs of baseball cards. I popped the two free slabs of gum into my mouth and started scanning through the cards: Kevin Mitchell-got ‘em, Eric Davis-need ‘em, Carlton Fisk-need ‘em, Paul Molitor-got ‘em, Allan Trammel-need ‘em, Jose Conseco-Cool! After I finished going through the two packs, I shoved the cards into my back pocket with the nudie pictures and watched Joey finish his game. On the way home, Joey and I decided to walk down a different street than we had come up to see if we could find anything good in the junk piles. Again, most of the stuff had already been picked through, but Joey had some luck and ended up finding an old electric train set with tracks and other accessories in a pile about four blocks from our house. This particular house appeared to be vacant and had more junk waiting to be picked up than normal. There was a “For Sale” sign in the yard and it looked like the previous tenants had planned their move around dump day. While Joey sat on lawn of the empty house examining the train set, I rummaged through a skyscraping pile of old garments that reeked heavily of mothballs. There, buried deep beneath the massive heap of clothing I discovered an old chest. It looked like an old pirates treasure chest you’d see in the movies or imagined while reading Treasure Island. Oh, this should be good, I thought, as I continued digging my way through the mound of musty clothing to get to the chest. Once I got it out, I flipped open the lid to see what was inside. To my surprise, the damn thing was practically overflowing with vintage baseball cards. There must have been four or five thousand of ‘em in there. I knew they were old because they were much smaller than the normal cards I was used to seeing and their uniforms and haircuts looked funny compared to those of today. I picked up a small handful of the cards and started to thumb through them. The cardboard smelled like stale tobacco and I didn’t recognize any of the player’s names: Collins, Lajoie, Kelley, Duffy, Anson, Evers, Young, Fletcher, and Cobb. Examining the cards further, I flipped them over to look at the backs. There were no stats, just a bunch of old cigarette advertisements of tobacco manufacturers that I had never heard of: Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, Old Mill, Drum, and a couple others. “Hey, whatcha lookin at?” Joey asked, glancing up from the train set. “Nothin,” I replied. “Just a bunch of crappy old baseball cards.” “Anything good?” “Naw, just a bunch of old timers I ain’t ever heard of before,” I said, then tossed the cards back into the trunk, shut the lid, threw some clothes back over it, and then walked over to where Joey was to check out the train set he had found. Joey and I didn’t speak much on the walk home on account of the fact that I was jealous he found the train set and I didn’t find anything. Here I am now almost 18 years later, an avid vintage baseball card collector, and I’m kicking myself in the ass for leaving that trunk of cards behind. As it turns out, the cards were from the 1909 T206 White Border Set and 1911 T205 Gold Border set. Judging by the quantity, I’m guessing they’d be worth somewhere in the area of two to three million dollars on todays market. Who knows what kind of gems were in there, because some of the cards I specifically remember seeing in that small handful I thumbed through alone book for a couple thousand dollars a piece. I wouldn’t have been surprised if there was even an elusive Honus Wagner card in there, which in decent condition can bring in well over one million dollars alone at auction. This treasure chest of cards would have definitely gone down in history as one of the hobby’s most significant finds of all-time, a true piece of Americana. Too bad I didn’t realize this until many years after the fact. I would give anything in the world right now to turn back the clock and replay that situation over again. I’d be sitting on a freaking gold mine right now…coulda-woulda-shoulda. Sometimes I wonder if someone came along after me and scooped the cards up, or if they’re just sitting in a dump somewhere in Colorado decomposing underneath a mountain of trash. That’s the part that bothers me the most, I’ll never know. I wonder if the original owner ever realized the true value of the cards after discarding them. Ha! And to think I was jealous that Joey found that train set and I didn’t. What’s even funnier is that the train didn’t even work when we took it back to Joey’s. We spent close to two hours assembling it and cleaning the gunk of the tracks and all it did was give us both a good shock when we plugged the old transformer into the wall and turned on the power. On top of that, I forgot to pull those nudie pictures from out of the back pocket of my pants and my mom ended up finding them along with the two packs of cards I bought while doing the laundry a few days later. She tossed the cards in the trash, grounded me for two weeks, and decided it that it was time she gave me the dreaded sex talk about the birds and the bees. Ain’t that the breaks?

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01-28-2005, 05:27 PM

Posted By: Trae R."To my surprise, the damn thing was practically overflowing with vintage baseball cards. There must have been four or five thousand of ‘em in there." No. No. No. NO! This story cannot be true - my oh my I am reluctant to even think about finding such a thing. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> Could you imagine how elated any one of us would be to find something like that today! Great story, thank you for sharing. I must know though, is it true?

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01-28-2005, 08:01 PM

Posted By: tbobThat story makes me feel a helluva lot better about my bonehead decision 23 years ago <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-28-2005, 10:04 PM

Posted By: Rob McKenzieRe: Warshaw's hypothetical.. I like baseball cards and all, but I could not see myself buying a box of vintage cards from an old lady and her grandkids for .10 on the dollar. I'd like to think i'd show them a beckett guide and offer at least 50% of book. If I had a table next to a guy who tried to offer an elderly lady in a wheelchair less than 10%, I'd probably have to hand her the beckett guide from 1992 at least. Later

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01-28-2005, 10:30 PM

Posted By: jay behrensLeon, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. If I'm set up at a show and a dealer next to me is being grossly dishonest with someone about the value of the cards he trying to buy from a walk-in, I'm gonna say something. Just as he paid his money to be at the show, I paid mine, and if he isn't willing to pony up a collection and I am, then that's just bad business on his part. Here's one case I remeber quite well. A dealer was set up next to me and was checking a some Sports Kings that had walked into the show. I overheard him tell the lady that he doesn't deal in those cards and doesn't know much about them. I found this quite interesting since a month or so earlier he was set up another show with very nice selection of SKs in case. A few of which I bought. At that point, I asked him he still had Sports Kings left from that nice group he had a month ago. The look on his face could have killed and lady asked me if that was true. I told her, yes, it's true becuase I collect the cards and showed her a Lavern Fator card I had in my showcase. She immediately left his table and I ended up buying the cards from her. To say that dealer was pissed is an understatement, but by the same token, if he hadn't been a scumbag and tried to bamboozle the person, he would have probably ended up with cards. In some ways I'm on the fence about another collector stepping into a situation like that, but if it's a case where the dealer is totally gonna cheat the person, I am more than likely gonna step up and say something. Jay Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-28-2005, 10:51 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellJay - Vigilantes are always unloved, unnecessary and they're obnoxious. Don't question deals that don't involve you - bad dealers and bad collectors get what's coming to them. Bill

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01-28-2005, 11:25 PM

Posted By: john/z28jdI remember one time a guy at a card store getting mad at me because i answered a customers question he claimed ignorance on and it was probably over a 50 cent sale he got mad. There was a middle infielder for the Angels in the early 90s named Bobby Rose and a kid asked is that Pete Rose's son,and the owner said i dont know it could be. All i said was its not,Pete Rose's son is a minor leaguer for the Reds and hes named Pete Rose Jr. The owner gave me a dirty look and said to the customer,it could be his son,im not sure. When i was about 15 at the time,i was a walking baseball encyclopedia and thats all i did was read books.I was 100 percent sure of my answer and could of told you more about Bobby Rose than youd find out by reading the back of his card.So i told the kid who looked at me after he said that 'No hes not,im positive hes not' and the kid didnt buy the card.I also left the store without buying anything after the look Bobby Rose cards probably booked for 25 cents back then,so he stood to make 25 cents on the card.Imagine what how pissed the guy would be if it were actually a large amount of money

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01-29-2005, 06:41 AM

Posted By: leonFirst of all let me say that "I" don't have my own table at the National, it's Scott B's, and I just rent a few cases. I do pay good money for them though. SO I can't speak for Scott but for my little two cases if anyone wants to butt into my business when someone comes around I would prefer you didn't. So Billy you are still welcome at the other 3/4 of the table where I will be. I won't speak for Scott. I imagine he wouldn't want anyone butting into his business either though. Secondly there are always different sides to every story. Am I going to rip off a little ole lady in a wheelchair? Only if I can!! No, just kidding. Anyone that knows me (except 1 case with JC and 1 case with Dan) will say that they have never had a problem with my dealings. Dan and I are over our little issue and I am sure JC and I will get over ours too. Thirdly Jay...there is a difference between outright lieing and getting a good deal. Likewise John....the guy lied to the person. I don't advocate lieing. At the same time there isn't one person on this board who hasn't withheld information to try to get a good deal. As Trump would say, to paraphrase.. "he who knows the most has a better chance of winning"....I have bought cards and lost money and bought cards and made money...We all stand on the reputations we make.......... later

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01-29-2005, 08:54 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestI understand Jay's point of view though. Jay, all I can say is - what goes around comes around. That swindling dealer would end up getting his in the end, regardless of what you did. Billy I don't get - hopefully we don't see him at the National laying on his face with Mr. Mint standing over him.

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01-29-2005, 09:54 AM

Posted By: warshawlawI posed the question because I have often pondered it. I am sensitive to the issue because I have something that some but not all of you have--a professional license. If I am set up at a show and I cheat someone out of their cards and they get my name and they get wise to my scam and report me to the bar I can be disciplined for cheating them. It isn't worth my ticket to buy some cards. Where I fall in the debate is this: As a dealer, I do not lie to walk-ins or call-ups, I just offer what I think is appropriate and leave it at that, if I am interested. If they balk at the deal and are clueless, I will steer them to a price guide before they head into the shark-infested waters. Often, they come back to me and take the offer I made because I was honest and reasonable in the first place. While I agree that I don't see it as my job to educate them or appraise their collection (if they want a consultant, hire me at my rate and I will help), it also isn't right to mislead someone in order to get a deal. It is fraud. I do not agree that bad dealers will get what is coming to them. Life doesn't work that way. Sometimes bad people get punished; sometimes they skate (how's the search for the real killsrs going, Orenthal?). I know a lot of real pigs who do quite well as dealers; I don't see them getting in trouble for their rapacious activities. Despite that, I would not intervene in a deal as a matter of etiquette if the seller appeared to be an adult of normal faculties. After all, you are at a card show--walk around and have a look what what stuff is worth, talk with some dealers, do a little due diligence, then lay down your cards. If not, you are setting yourself up to be cheated and I am not going to intervene, unless I am asked (in which case I certainly will not lie for the dealer). If the seller appeared to be a child or a frail or elderly person, however, I would probably jump in and say something, because that person probably doesn't have the ability to protect themselves and the dealer taking advantage of that is a genuine a-hole to begin with. Finally, most of the people who post here are honest, so I would not expect them to be cheating people at shows. Scott and Leon run one of the most fun and interesting tables and are both stand-up guys, so I would not even be listening in on a deal of Leon's unless it was very loud <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>, let alone standing ready to jump in unless invited.

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01-29-2005, 10:17 AM

Posted By: BillyWhatever SCOTT I am a black belt in karate (for 12 years), so I doubt Mr. Mint or any of you fruitcakes will be standing on top of me anywhere. I still don't get how I'm ambushed by everyone by giving my opinion to a question. Especially since Jay says the SAME THING, yet it's cool since he said it. Ya'll live in a dream world IMO

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01-29-2005, 10:31 AM

Posted By: jay behrensBilly, I didn't say the same thing as you. I would only step in a very limited circumstances. I would not step in if I was willing to offer more money, but the offer from the other dealer wasnt totally out of line. It's a fine line. In roughly 10 years of setting up at shows I jump in a dealer 3 times. Each time, they were outright lying to the person and offering them about 10 cents on the dollar. If a dealer is being honest and still offering 10 cents on the dollar, I'm not gonna step in. Soudns like BcD and Billy shoudl sign up for a match at the Nationals, hehe. Jay Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-29-2005, 10:34 AM

Posted By: Billy"I should also add that I would only do this in an extreme case." That's my quote from above. That's not what you said Jay? After this post, I'm quitting Ya'll are so petty about everything.

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01-29-2005, 10:49 AM

Posted By: jay behrensBilly, don't take it too personally. We all get up in each other's grill once in awhile. Hell, you ahven't even faced the wrath of MW yet. I had that pleasure with the first week or 2 and earned the title Dunderhead. But I bear no ill will towards him or wanted to leave the board. We butt heads here once in awhile and then the next week are back to being on good terms. You generally have to do something really bad to get to totally ostricized from here. The other reason I might get cut a little slack is that I've been involved in the hobby as a dealer or collector for almost 25 years and am something of a known quantity among old-timers. I do agree though that the thread did ask for opinions and you should not have been jumped on the way you were for expressing an opinion. Both sides could have been a bit more diplomatic. Jay Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-29-2005, 02:07 PM

Posted By: ChrisJay's right Billy. I think most of us have had our little run ins with each other. I had one when I was relatively new to the board. I offered to call the guy and apologize for where I was wrong but he refused to take my call. What can you do? You can't please everyone all of the time. It's still a good board where you can learn alot.

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01-29-2005, 04:51 PM

Posted By: PaulI will try to make it short. My dad had a friend who consigned his father's stamp collection to an auction house that deals primarily in stamps. Well along with the stamps there was a small golf ball box with tobacco cards from the 1800's. I would guess there was a full set of Goodwin Champions of Sports Cards in there along with doubles. I got outbid by $100. I still have nightmares about Lot 22........ Paul

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01-29-2005, 05:01 PM

Posted By: warshawlawIsn't saying you are a blackbelt, like, bad mojo or something? I have a black belt...in my pants...it holds my holster with my S&W .357 magnum... I know, I know, I am a liberal and a gun owning NRA member...can you say cross-cutting allegiances?

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01-29-2005, 05:15 PM

Posted By: BillyWarshawlaw, Did you not just say you don't believe in that crap when you referenced OJ???? I was informing Mr. scott forrest to not have any fantasies of Mr. Mint having me in a prone position any time soon, that is all I meant by it.

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01-29-2005, 10:37 PM

Posted By: zachThis one never really got away because I never had a chance at it but when my Dad was a kid he would go over to his grandfathers house and listen to his stories about Ruth and Johnson and about how he saw them play. Up some where in a closet was a stack of baseball cards with a rubber band around them the whole 1915 sporting news set. When my great grandfather died my dad went back to the house and they were gone....it's a shame because he remembers them as beening mint like a pack of fresh playing cards and he remembers seeing all the stars like Ruth and Cobb.

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01-30-2005, 09:00 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestSince you have no respect for any of us, why again is it that you are posting here? I'm not saying to go away, I'm just curious what the appeal is - the rest of us are all collectors of vintage cards. Whether I have a black belt or not is irrelevant to that hobby. With your attitude, I don't think it's too much of a fantasy to even imagine a 90-lb weakling standing over your prone body - he might be holding a chair and you might be looking the other way, but that's what happens to people like you.

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01-30-2005, 09:40 AM

Posted By: Anonymous"With your attitude, I don't think it's too much of a fantasy to even imagine a 90-lb weakling standing over your prone body - he might be holding a chair and you might be looking the other way, but that's what happens to people like you." And why would someone do that? Because I responded to a hypothetical question in a way they didn't like? Are you guys insecure I might steal your business at National? It sounds to me like National is as much a place to settle childish scores as it is to buy/trade cards. Don't worry gang, I won't be at National. I challenge you Scott to find a post where I disrespected anyone, please post it. I am the one who has been disrespected because of my opinion (by being bared from tables, harm wished upon), and have had to defend myself. I haven't had this problem with anyone except Scott and Leon. Please leave me alone, and you will be left alone in kind. This is all I care to say about this. (I can't believe I'm even responding to this, but since you guys are long time board members I have to)

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01-30-2005, 09:58 AM

Posted By: leonI don't hate you. I don't even know you. I just don't want you butting into my business at my table. As far as I am concerned you are a friend like anyone else. No harm no foul. BTW, one of your statements about me having low grade cards was kind of ignorant. I hope you continue to post and are just up to the task. We all have to defend ourselves every now and then. It's just part of speaking publicly. Have a good one....

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01-30-2005, 10:05 AM

Posted By: BillyI owe Leon an apology for that statement. I am sorry Leon, that didn't or shouldn't have to do with what we were debating.

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01-30-2005, 10:13 AM

Posted By: jay behrensFor members of the board, the National is all about getting together and beating the crap out of each other. Then the next night we all go out to dinner if they let you out of the hospital. We're just one big frat house here. Just no drunken brawls. You have to be sober to fight someone. There is another thread that outlines who will be beating who up at the National. Seriously, there is <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Feel free to add your name to the list. I'd get in line to give my brother a beating, but I think he would enjoy getting a beatting from other people since I can already give him beattings as needed when he gets out of line. Jay Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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01-30-2005, 10:26 AM

Posted By: BillyMaybe I should go to National then, lol. I can get one of those supersonic hearing devices that looks like a walkman and easily "butt in" on deals. If the dealer doesn't like it, you just schedule our match after the Behrens' brothers!!!

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01-30-2005, 05:00 PM

Posted By: Scott ForrestI haven't been to very many card shows, but I did attend one National, and none of the "black belt" talkers (no, Billy, you aren't the first to pull the "black belt" card) showed up - in fact, it was a very likeable crowd and not near as nerdy as I was expecting. The strangest thing was Mr. Mint and his bobble-heads...and the free Brittney Spears swatch cards.

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01-31-2005, 09:38 AM

Posted By: tbobTwo times it has happened to me. The first time I was desperately searching for a very tough card, a T212-2 1910 Obak with 150 series back of Willis. It has a different image than the 175 series. After 3 years of searching everywhere, I saw one on ebay. I immediately emailed the seller and made him an offer for what I considered the card was worth (book value) and he accepted. I sent the payment by PayPal and he ended the auction. A crybaby or maybe just someone who didn't like seeing me get a bargain emailed him and told him that ending auctions early on ebay was an offense which would get him thrown off ebay. He got scared, refunded my money and nixed the deal. I ended up getting sniped on the card. To complete the cycle, I ended up winning the very same card about 6 months later in an auction, I believe it was Barry Sloate's. The second time I put an exish to exmtish T206 Rhoades right arm extended on ebay for sale. I mentioned in the ad that it was a very tough common card. It took off like a house on fire with 2 bidders running it up against each other and it sold for over $400 instead of the $100 or so I thought it would get. Immediately a couple of jackasses (one of whom posts on this board and yes I know who you are) emailed the happy buyer and told her she had paid way too much and did not get a good deal on the card. These 2 examples are the flip side of the coin, Billy, where someone interferes AFTER the fact and tries to sour a contracted for deal simply out of some "moral" sense of outrage. I'll be at Scott and Leon's table gabbing with them in Chicago if you want to talk about this further but I have no puglistic intent as I am 55 years old and my high school fisticuff days are just a memory <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-31-2005, 10:17 AM

Posted By: Darren J. DuetWhat I get from this string---- Most feel that it is just not right to butt into dealings at shows, in person. Most feel that it is okay to butt into dealings over the internet e.g. Ebay. Any of us who have sent e-mails to bidders warning or informing them of an item of questionable legitimacy are butting in. Why the disparity? I have received emails from some of you, and I appreciate them -- thanks for the concern.

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01-31-2005, 10:19 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestThese are not two examples of someone interfering AFTER the fact. Granted, the second one is. But in the first case, you decided not to play by the rules - obviously others were watching that auction and objected to you interfering and having it ended before it ran it's natural course. This is a danger you face when you talk someone into ending an auction early. I wasn't the "crybaby" who "interfered", but I'm all in favor of such interference and have done it on multiple occasions. Ask Dan McKee.

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01-31-2005, 10:31 AM

Posted By: warshawlawas much as I hate to side with scott on anything <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I do have to side with him w/r/t ending auctions early. I have ended early on non-bid, non-watch items because I know no one is being aced out of the item, but I don't like to do it and I don't like it when it is done to me, and I would not feel much of a sense of moral outrage if I butted into an early ending. Besides, aren't you afraid that asking a seller to end early will key the seller into the fact that the item is highly desirable and that you can be "extorted" for a much higher sum?

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01-31-2005, 10:39 AM

Posted By: leonI must say, regarding ending ebay auctions early, I like when I can get someone to do it and get away with it, but I hate it when it's done to me. I have been on both sides of the equation...If I had to vote I would definitely say it shouldn't be allowed. I have never ended an auction early but would only entertain the idea if there were no bids on it. I understand that bids can come in late, and others could be watching it, but oh well.....again, don't recall ending one early so it's sort of moot for me. I have been asked a gazillion times to end auctions early after there are bids. I definitely won't do that. regards all edited so the post made a little more sense...

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01-31-2005, 10:44 AM

Posted By: denniswhenever someone asks me to end an auction early or makes an offer,i simply tell them to bid that amount on the item and maybe they'll get it cheaper. often they never even bid,which is confusing to me.ending an auction early is not an option.

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01-31-2005, 05:33 PM

Posted By: tbobScott, you are missing the point on my first scenario. Let me say first that I have never ended one of my auctions early. Next, I have purchased a highly desired card before by making an offer to the seller and having him end the auction early. I have not done it often and cheerfully bid on the item if the seller says "no." I think it is a tad hypocritical for everyone to jump on the moral bandwagon when I know for a fact MANY posters here have done the same thing. I did it the first time out of self-preservation because I used to clench my teeth as cards disappeared that way. I can count on one hand the times I have done it and as long as ebay permits it and the seller is o.k. with it, I'll probably do it some time again. I guarantee you that if the only Series 150 Obak I need to complete my set appears on ebay I'll make the seller an offer he can't refuse. I might also point out that every offer I have made has been over "book" so it is not a case of taking advantage of an innocent. Now, Scott, with regard to my point, my main objection was that someone lied to the seller and coerced him with threats in to nixing the sale. Ebay does NOT kick you off for ending an auction early. The 2 guys who made those blatant lies knew better. They also threatened and scared the seller. That is what was wrong. They didn't say "gee, you shouldn't have ended it early and sold it for $150 because it is worth $300" they lied and coerced the fellow. By the way the guy who eventually sniped me and bought it was not one of the 2 people. And I ended up buying it from Barry in his auction for almost the exact same price I offered the original seller. I just think that there is a little too much holier than thou-ism going on around here sometimes.

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01-31-2005, 05:43 PM

Posted By: warshawlawThat is another very interesting quirk of human nature, isn't it? I've noticed that too, when I've been asked to end early by someone who never even bids and the thing sells for less than the offer.

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01-31-2005, 06:20 PM

Posted By: Scott ForrestI agree that lying to the seller is wrong. But with regard to the "moral bandwagon" and the "holier than thou" comments...I'm stating what I believe, just as you did. As Leon described, I don't have a problem with asking someone to end an auction early, but to get outraged when someone contacts the seller when the auction is pulled (at your request), is hypocritical.

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01-31-2005, 07:13 PM

Posted By: Scott Elkinshow is Tbob being "hypocritical" just by being mad at someone for contacting the seller for ending an auction early???? The ONLY way he would have been hypocritical is if he had done the same thing to other sellers when they ended auctions early - I NEVER remember him saying that!?!?!?! As in the past when attacking my posts - you need to read each post more clearly before posting remarks!!!!!!!! I consider Tbob a friend, and to have someone call him "hypocritical" without just cause just pisses me off! If Tbob is "hypocritical", then I wished everyone was just like him - he is one of the MOST HONEST persons I have ever dealt with and does not whine around and pass judgement on people by misrepresenting their posts and what they say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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01-31-2005, 07:40 PM

Posted By: Scott Forrest...getting into it with me. I've avoided responding to your ridiculous posts, but if you want me to start again, keep it up.

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01-31-2005, 07:43 PM

Posted By: BCDTBob needs a new scanner-period. Not ever ending an auction early is fair to all auction participants- and a nice gesture at that.Also end of story. Crofts Cocoa Young- IN THE MAIL-TRIPLE END OF STORY~

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01-31-2005, 07:44 PM

Posted By: Scott Forrestis concerned with you, the board village idiot, getting pissed off.

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01-31-2005, 07:50 PM

Posted By: Scott ElkinsBTW - at least my post worked - runscott quit lying about Tbob's post and attacking him and is back to attacking me! At least when he is attacking me, he is leaving others alone.

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01-31-2005, 07:56 PM

Posted By: Scott Forreston representing yourself as both a hack board moderator and as a caramel expert, can we talk about the fake e95 Cobb that you sold as real? Seriously, just shut up. Most of the slanderous comments you have made about myself, Doug Allen, and others, I realize are totally out of ignorance - you have swallowed so much of your own feet that you can't even taste them any more.

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01-31-2005, 08:17 PM

Posted By: Scott ElkinsONE mistake out of handling tens of thousands of cards - a mistake that happened a few years ago. I bought the card from an eBay seller - Bill List from MD who had great feedback. When the card arrived (along with a dozen or so others I purchased that day), I simply chucked it away in the safe (foolishly trusting the seller's feedback and not looking at the card b/c I was too busy). I shouldn't have taken for granted the seller's feedback and Poor condition of the card - I should have examined it and looked at the back and front through my loupe. I did NOT - I learned not to trust anybody from that deal on ungraded cards (as several people make mistakes). Sorry I am not perfect like you runscott. However, I do NOT alter items myself like your little buddies that you mentioned and not disclose the "stabilization" until I am caught. COME ON - I made one mistake - HOW MANY LIES HAVE YOUR BUDDIES TOLD AND HOW MANY CARDS HAVE THEY KNOWLINGLY "STABILIZED" AND MISLEAD PEOPLE ON PURPOSE!?!?!?!? Also, from what Greg and others tell me, you don't handle enough cards to know much yourself - kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it????? Also, speaking of your buddy Doug Allen, who stated on this board he did not use bleach to clean the T207 Red Cross Blackburne I consigned to Mastronet (when telling me the cleaning would involve a Q-Tip and Bleach), I checked the scans from the catalog - one can certainly tell the spot where the stain once was is MUCH WHITER. Also, the fact that the stain was cleaned was NEVER mentioned in the auction. Also, I have won E90-1 and T207 lots from Mastronet - NONE of the cards were listed as trimmed - some WERE (you can ask Tbob - I refunded his money on a couple Napoleon T207's from that lot)!!!!!!!!! In fact, they include several trimmed cards KNOWINGLY into lots to "HIDE" the fact they are trimmed. Again, though I KNOW you will try and mislead and misrepresent what I have stated - I made a mistake - YOUR BUDDIES KNOWINGLY ALTER AND SELL ALTERED ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!

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01-31-2005, 08:27 PM

Posted By: Billyyawn.... Run Scott should be a professor in ethics in my opinion. (don't take in personally, it's a noble profession)

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01-31-2005, 08:48 PM

Posted By: MikeIt must of been 1998 or so, when E-bay was still in its infant stage. I was just starting to get into pre war cards at the time, and I was suprised and excited to find that these early cards where on e-bay at pretty affordable prices. At the time I couldn't imagine getting a Babe Ruth card for just a few hundred dollars. Or a card from the 19th century for the same. My pursuit started here. Systematically I tried to furfill my dream collection. I picked up a Ruth, and a Cobb, and a Cy Young. I then became almost obsessed with 19th Century history and its cards. My favorite? Ed Delehanty. I decided this would be my next pick up. Finally a N172 Old Judge Delehanty on e-bay... only it was in poor condition. The description read it had a whole corner missing (the upper right), and the photo was faded. I decided even for the bargain price it seemed to be going for, I would wait for another. The Ed Delehanty in poor condition sold for $125. I remember even for then that, that was a steal. But, I commited myself to the next one that would come along. Perhaps one in Good or VG condition. Only, I never saw another Delehanty on e-bay under $1000 again.

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01-31-2005, 08:48 PM

Posted By: BobScott- I don't know why you feel you have to unload on Scott Elkins just because he came to my defense. You ask anyone who regularly participates on this board and who I have had dealings with and they will tell you that I have always tried to be square and up front with everyone I deal with. And I have had nothing but great deals with Scott Elkins who has always been fair with me in his dealings, both as a seller and buyer. Why you call me "hypocritical" for resenting the fact someone not only soured a transaction but lied and coerced an innocent seller is beyond me. I've never done this to anyone else at any time so how can you call my feelings hypocritical? I think you need to chill... And Brian you are dead on right, I do need a new scanner.

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01-31-2005, 09:51 PM

Posted By: MWJay, you're a dunderhead! There. Just like the old days <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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02-01-2005, 07:44 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestOnce again you are being hypocritical. Did I unload on Scott, or did he perhaps unload on me first? Go read the posts, then chill yourself. I have ignored Scott Elkins's ridiculous posts for weeks, and planned to continue to do so. Now that my thoughts about this card hack are out in the open, I will resume ignoring his blather. You have to expect that when you post so emotionally, there will be people who call you to task - I disagree with you, that doesn't mean I think you are dishonest. Scott Elkins, on the other hand, is not only dishonest, but also slanderous to an extent that is dangerous to others AND to himself.

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02-01-2005, 10:00 AM

Posted By: Scott ElkinsI do not know how runscott gets I am dishonest? I have dealt and deal with several board members on a regular basis and have had nothing but fair trades and great experiences. I have never dealt with runscott on anything. How can he say I am dishonest when he has never dealt with me???? YES, I made one mistake a few years ago on a card I should have examined more closely. It was an honest mistake by someone who had too many irons in the fire at the time. Several people make mistakes. In fact, going back to our discussion about re-backed cards a few weeks ago, I have a major auction house catalog that CLEARLY has a PSA 2 re-backed Drum Cobb in it (one can even see the adhesive stains along the edge of the card in the holder)! One thing I can honestly say is that I have NEVER altered a card myself nor ever will. I am a collector and consider any alteration ruining a piece of history. Can the people runscott mentions say this?????? The answer is NO!

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02-01-2005, 12:43 PM

Posted By: Scott ForrestHere are some of those "never dealt with runscott on anything" deals: By the way, the Mino had writing on the back which you failed to disclose. One or two of the others also had back problems. You ARE t207redcross, Jimmy Scott Elkins, t206Uzitback...? Yes, I know you are. Over the years I have bought several cards from you, most with problems you failed to disclose, but your reputation preceeded you and I was able to get them cheap anyway. The Mino was the end of the line, though. I guess you have a pretty short memory? Hopefully you haven't forgotten what a e95 Cobb reprint looks like (BTW - most collectors don't need a magnifier to spot them). > > Hello Scott, > > > > Congratulations on winning three of my eBay auctions. If you are planning > > on winning more, I will give you the total for all then with shipping and > > insurance. As for these three now, shipping and insurance will be $7. I > > ship immediately upon receipt of PayPal, Money Orders, and Cashiers Checks > > (Personal Checks are fine, but must clear before items are shipped). The > > total for these three auctions you have won is $147. If you want to pay > > now by PayPal, I will ship them out first thing in the morning! > > > > Thanks for bidding, > > > > Jimmy Scott Elkins > > PO Box 145 > > East Stone Gap, VA 24246 > > > > Hello Scott, > > > > Thought I would wait to hear from you before I ship the Mono - if you > want, > > you can pay the winning bid price of the T207 Napoleon Gardner you won and > > I will ship it with the Mono (saving you the $5 shipping and insurance on > > the Gardner). PLMK ASAP and I will hold off shipping the Mono until I > hear > > from you. > > > > Thanks as always, > > > > Scott Elkins Hello Scott, No problem. Looks like you did win the T207 Bresnahan with Napoleon back. The total is $262 (which includes insured shipping in the US). If you are paying with PayPal, my e-mail address is: tycobb@optidynamic.com. If you are paying by other means, my address is below. Thanks for bidding and good luck with the Detroit Free Press insert (I believe you might get that one rather cheap, as they don't really do well on eBay). Thanks again, Scott Elkins PO Box 145 East Stone Gap, VA 24246 > Subject: Re: Good news! 1909 E95 Cicotte Black Sox! Graded VG 3! (Item #1854706596) ended successfully! > Date: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:10 AM > > Hi Scott, > > I just sent payment of $147.00 via Paypal - thanks for offering these. > > Scott >

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02-01-2005, 03:39 PM

Posted By: Scott ElkinsAlso, most of the Monos I had did have some writing on the back (front and back scans are always included in my auctions and always 200x in size). I ALWAYS include large front and back scans in all my auctions - if you did not notice the writing, why blame it on me. I never describe cards - I give my grade and have large scans, letting the bidders determine their own grades! You talk about getting the Mono cheaply - maybe it was because all the other bidders looked at the front AND back scans - unlike you who must have thought you were going to get a $5000 NM Mono for under $500. You state now - several years later that the cards were NOT what I claimed them to be (EVEN THOUGH, I STATE IN MY AUCTIONS FOR THE BIDDERS TO LOOK AT THE ENLARGED SCANS AND DETERMINE THEIR OWN GRADES). Where is an e-mail you sent me stating you were not satisfied with the cards???? Why did you not inform me???? I remember after selling the three or four Monos I had that others e-mailed me wanting to buy some for more money than they sold for on eBay. I WISH you would have returned the cards - if you would have mentioned it, I would have sent your money back ASAP, so I could have made more money. Bottom line - I NEVER heard one negative word against the cards until NOW - YEARS LATER! SO, TO MAKE A FORMER CUSTOMER HAPPY (EVEN THOUGH SEVERAL YEARS HAVE PASSED) - PLEASE RETURN THE CARDS FOR A FULL REFUND PLUS SHIPPING AND INSURANCE CHARGES!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOBODY OFFERS A REFUND AFTER THIS LENGTH OF TIME ON ANYTHING, BUT I WILL - NOW, HOW DISHONEST IS THAT??????? Also, when I stated I haven't dealt with you - I should have been more clear - I had not remembered any deals. As bad as you claim I am, I would have been certain it would have been a bad experience. SO, I AM NOW OFFERING TO BUY BACK THE CARDS YOU WERE NOT SATISFIED WITH YEARS AGO - PLEASE SEND THEM TO MY ADDRESS YOU HAVE VIA INSURED MAIL AND I WILL FORWARD A MONEY ORDER FOR THE PURCHASE PRICE, SHIPPING AND INSURANCE CHARGES, AND YOUR COSTS TO MAIL THEM TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-01-2005, 03:53 PM

Posted By: Scott Forrest...is that you are a dishonest and naively slanderous idiot who knows dink about vintage cards. That's it. Ciao to this thread.

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02-01-2005, 04:05 PM

Posted By: Scott Elkinsthat the slanderous, dishonest idiot would be yourself. I have now given you an opportunity, three years later to return cards you stated you were not satisfied with and never told me so at the time of purchase! If that is not honesty, I do not know what is! Do you think your buddies at Mastronet would do the same for me on the T207 and E90-1 lots I purchased where there were no scans of all the cards - especially the trimmed ones?????? NO! Also, if you did not know the writing on the back of the Mono in the scan did not belong on the card, why did you not ask or look in the SCD at the back of the description card - pen writing sure looks different than the ink the cards were printed in! Then again, I could have just "stabilized" the cards like your buddies and there would have been NO WRITING on the cards!!!!!!!!!! BTW - I know enough about vintage cards to determine from scans if there is extra writing on the back that is not from the factory. I also know enough that if I am not satisfied with an item or items that I tell the seller right away - not three years later. And, lastly, I know that I am not going to buy a NM $5000 card for under $500 listed in the Pre 1930 category - especially a Mono - Heck, that 10% of NM price ANYBODY knows (especially for rare cards) is PR/FR price - then, I guess you didn't know what the back should have looked like in the first place - that is why I am offering you a refund three years later!

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02-02-2005, 06:22 AM

Posted By: barrysloateShouldn't you two guys be taking this dispute to the parking lot and not the board. You're airing your dirty laundry out and everyone has to read it.

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02-02-2005, 08:11 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestWhy did you decide to bring this thread back up? It had fallen way down the list and I wasn't responding to Scott. Seriously, if you want the disputes to go away, play your part - ignore them and they will.

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02-02-2005, 08:28 AM

Posted By: Bill KaselHow dare you step into the middle of a hissy fit to try and regain some semblence of decorum on the board. It was a dead post as of Feb 1st at 7PM (umm that's just over 12 hours; not a long time). Sorry Scott, the two of you seem to hate, and love to publicly bash each other until someone does pull you off to the pricipal's office by your ears. I for one am glad Barry said something. Bill Kasel

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02-02-2005, 08:36 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestThe thread was disappearing - you and Barry seem to be wannabe board moderators. You pick and choose when you will argue with others, then get the "holier than thou" attitude when it suits you. I think you both enjoy this stuff, or you would have let it die.

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02-02-2005, 09:10 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI'll admit that I didn't pay attention to the time of the last post and understand Scott Forrest's point. And I don't mean to take a "holier than thou attitude" and I understand where you are coming from with that. I just feel that the board should not be used to settle arguments. You know, there is email, and by emailing each other back and forth you can maintain a private discussion. That would seem to me to be more suitable. Do other board members agree that the site shouldn't be used to settle personal arguments?

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02-02-2005, 09:24 AM

Posted By: Scott Forrest...even I do. The problem is that when someone attacks you personally, you will usually respond. In the future, I will try to ignore such posts. The other problem is that certain board members "can't be touched", i.e - if you question their opinions you get your *ss reemed by their buddies. Such was the case on this thread. In the future, I won't respond either to the "attitude" posters, or to the "old school" "experts" that everyone loves so much. What you all are in danger of creating here, by chasing off the more emotional posters who are also card-knowledgeable, is an environment where it's simply "ivory tower" icons responding to newbies. Go for it.

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02-02-2005, 09:33 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThe only point I was making is if you have a problem with someone- and I'm the first to admit that problem is none of my business- why don't you just privately email each other? I think part of the reason you two are doing this on the board is to embarrass each other publicly. Sure, it's normal for people to have disagreements- and I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't disagree. Just keep it between yourselves. Why do others who are reading the post have to be subjected to it ( I know, we are all free to click it off and go on to a different post)? That's all I'm saying. I don't mean to get in between the two of you. You have a right to air what's on your mind.

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02-02-2005, 09:47 AM

Posted By: Scott ForrestYou are completely correct. But I have to admit that unfortunately I am not usually able to ignore such things, and I don't like email fights either. Each time this sort of thing comes up, I always ask myself "what do I really gain by posting here?" The answer is simple: nothing. I do it for fun, out of boredome, whatever, but it is extremely rare when anyone actually answers my questions about cards or memorabilia. If I really want an answer, I phone or email the appropriate person directly. I admit that I have made both contacts and friends from this board, including Barry, but 99.9% of the members who give me **** do not fall into that category. The biggest benefit from this board is simply reading it. Selfish, but it's a fact. So this entire problem has a very simple solution.

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02-02-2005, 10:25 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThanks Scott- I didn't want anything to get between us. Just to change the subject, let me tell a story about one that got away from me. Back in the 1980's, an old-time collector was selling off his T206's and he sent me photocopies of 23 he had with better backs. Virtually all were NR MT (a few were VG's) and nearly all were commons (there may have been a couple of HOfers). As I recall he wanted $25 a card if I bought them all. I thought about it for a few days, but decided to pass. All 23 cards had UZIT backs. I can't tell you how many times I've thought about that deal. It stings to this day.