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View Full Version : GAI dropping the "authentic" grading classification


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01-17-2005, 03:42 PM
Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>I spoke to a representative of GAI today who told me that they are going to start eliminating the grade "authentic" on their cards. It came up because an M116 Cobb I bought appeared to have a very slight top trim. (You wonder anyway with M116s because they are all over the board size-wise). I asked him if they could at least grade it "authentic" and he checked and they said no, they are going to phase out that grading classification. <br />Looks like PSA will be the only company doing that now.

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01-17-2005, 06:00 PM
Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Within the last few weeks I submitted some E210 York Caramel cards to PSA that I knew had been trimmed. On the submission form, I put "authentic" in the column labeled "minimum grade". PSA returned the card unslabbed and I was told the card was miscut. They kept my grading fees. I'm not sure if I went about the process properly on getting the card slabbed "authentic"?

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01-17-2005, 11:29 PM
Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>Just how do you go about getting PSA to grade your card as "authentic?" Do you have to be one of the "in-crowd?"

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01-18-2005, 03:00 AM
Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>What exactly does "authentic" mean in the grading jargon?

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01-18-2005, 03:14 AM
Posted By: <b>Korey</b><p>I'd also like to know how you go about getting PSA to just grade it as authentic. I believe a couple of my cards are trimmed

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01-18-2005, 03:18 AM
Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Authentic means the card is real but altered in some capacity.

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01-18-2005, 04:29 AM
Posted By: <b>honus3415</b><p>Not sure "altered" is the best term when trying to understand the classification of "Authentic".<br /><br />As we all have seen, not all real "altered" cards were assigned "authentic", some were graded while I suppose others might even have been rejected.<br /><br />Rather it seemed to have been a classification used with "hand-cut" cards (strips, post cereal....) that didn't meet the "proper" size requirements. Although if I'm not mistaken, it did also appear to include some "real" machine-cut cards that were "small" due to "natural wear" or missing something such as the tabs from the Red Man Tobacco cards.<br /><br />I'm not sure "real" cards "altered" by what appeared to be an "intentional means" were ever assigned the classification of "authentic". They just appeared to have been given a grade or rejected.<br /><br />But hopefully it should be safe to assume that the material in an "Authentic" holder was deemed genuine to that year and issue.<br /><br />But given the state of the union.....it wouldn't suprise me if I were completely wrong.<br /><br />

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01-18-2005, 07:27 AM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Either authenticate or dodn't authenticate, but be consistent.

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01-18-2005, 08:30 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>They ARE consistent. Consistently inconsistent.......

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01-18-2005, 09:42 AM
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>It depends who submits it. Certain auction houses and regular customers can still obtain the grade of authentic. Not all authentic grades are altered real cards. Cards that are miscut from the factory or hand cut terribly from a sheet are not altered.

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01-18-2005, 10:09 AM
Posted By: <b>Todd (nolemmings)</b><p>"authentic" was supposed to denote real and unintentionally altered, or undeceptively altered (like the 52 Mantle with a chunk missing). <br /><br />Not to stir up an old pot, but I still see little wrong with them slabbing altered cards as authentic, so long as the flip states that it's altered. "Authentic-trimmed", for example, does not seem so confusingly diffficult that any novice might plop down an unreal sum for what he thinks is a bona fide treasure. As someone noted, they take your grading fee anyway, which is supposed to include the price of the slab, so why not slab it?<br /><br />My $.02

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01-18-2005, 12:32 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I'm with Todd on this one. The grading fee includes slabbing the card. If they aren't going to slab the card for whatever reason, then owe us a partial refund, plain and simple. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-18-2005, 04:48 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>About 3 months ago, I submitted an n172 ned williamson to GAI with scrapbook removal that they graded as authentic. It's similar in condition to the cards in that 116-card lot on Mastro that sold more than six figures - it seems there would be a high demand for a service that authenticates n172s and other rare cards even if the backs of such cards are gone.<br /><br />I also own a PSA "Authentic - Trimmed" 1954 Wilsons Franks Ted Williams which is only about 90% intact. I wonder if the missing 10% would separately grade.

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01-19-2005, 07:46 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>I now know why the Authenticators want to take the word "Authentic" OUT from their Authentications. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-20-2005, 02:21 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>What perfect logic: take the authentic out of the authentication. Wish I could take the law practice out of my business and skip right to billing <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-20-2005, 06:47 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>The Boxer's Rebellion:<br />"Wish I could take the law practice out of my business and skip right to billing."<br />*<br />*<br />That's precisely what they're saying. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <br /><br />

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01-20-2005, 10:24 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I don't work for a megafirm repackaging old tax opinion letters on shady tax shelters for flat fees (it is a big scandal right now...). I'm just a poor little honest country lawyer...well, suburban lawyer...

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01-20-2005, 10:42 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>Honest Adam:<br />"I'm just a poor little honest country lawyer...well, suburban lawyer..."<br />*<br />*<br />Isn't that how Lincoln got started?<br />We're looking for someone in 2008.<br />Would you consider moving into an authentic log cabin?<br /><br />Joe<br /><br />

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01-23-2005, 12:14 AM
Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>I had been told by a reputable source a few weeks ago that both companies would grade cards as "authentic" if they were altered but original. That is not true. GAI absolutely will not (unless maybe you are one of a select few people, I don't know about that) if you are Joe Average Collector.<br />PSA told me yesterday that it is entirely up to the grader and whether or not he feels like it (???) They have no standard policy. If you tell them in a note accompanying the card that the card is altered (trimmed, colored, hand cut, etc) it all depends on which grader you get and how he feels that day about it. I got this straight from the horse's mouth at PSA. I was inquiring in to the possibility of getting some handcut 1909 Obaks graded which Leon had sold me and are great cards but hand cut, as are probably 33-40% of all 1909 Obaks. You won't find any handcut 1910s and 1911s but it is amazing how many of the 1909s that pop up are hand cut. (And some which are graded were handcut at one time, I promise you that).

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01-23-2005, 12:42 AM
Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>bob i've always gotten the sense that if psa deem the card important enough they'd slap an 'AUTHENTIC' grade on it if it would not grade otherwise (trimmed, altered). like they wouldn't bother to "authenticate" an e95 carrigan but they'd probably do it for a T206 Magie and the likes.

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01-23-2005, 10:31 AM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>