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01-07-2005, 05:19 PM
Posted By: <b>Dennis W.</b><p>I realize a '52 Mantle is slightly O/T. But the real question here is how long does a seller have to stand by their card. Is a new standard for the hobby being set here? Interesting...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8077271" target=_new>http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8077271</a>

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01-07-2005, 06:32 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>I just read the case, 269 Neb 51 (I can paste it here, but it's lengthy). The most amazing part - after PSA rejected the card as altered, the buyer sent the card to ASA Accugrade. I expected the next sentence to say that ASA graded it a 10, but ASA actually rejected it. <br /><br />Steve Orand was called as an expert witness and commented on industry practice for return periods as follows: "He testified that teh standard for sports memorabilia was a lifetime guarantee and that a reputable collector would stand behind what he sold and refund the money if an item were fake or had been altered." <br /><br />In the end, the jury was left to determine whether 2 years was a "reasonable" amount of time to notify the seller that the card was a fake.

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01-07-2005, 06:56 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>There are so many problems with this rulling on so many many levels. The thing that especially irks me is the continued support of the court that people don't need to take responsibility for their actions. If you are dumping that kind of coin on a card, you better be doing your homework on it know what the hell you are buying. <br /><br />To a degree, I agree that a dealer should stand behind his items 100%, but in 2 years a lot things could have been done to this card that had not been done do it prior to it's purchase. What proof is there that buyer isn't the one that doctored this card and then submitted?<br /><br />This whole thing is just way too iffy for a court to say that dealer has to back up a card he sold 2 years ago.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-07-2005, 08:16 PM
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>it could even be a different card? couldn't a good lawyer argue that it wasn't the same card? lot of money to spend on a card that has that much work on it,and not notice it right away?

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01-07-2005, 08:38 PM
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>There are a lot of dealers that have LIFETIME guarantees of authenticity on autographs and other game used equipment. What would happen if a "new" king of game used authentication was throned and (5 years after the fact) deemed that $1M Ruth bat as authentic but not the one used for the first HR in Yankee stadium? <br /><br />Interesting can of worms... <br /><br />Oh yes, was it fair? You would have to figure that (possibly) the seller was honest enough to say it was the card and that it hadn't been altered since that time. Personally, I think 2 years is a lot of time, perhaps even too much unless the dealer guaranteed it for life. The next question is if a dealer has a high ticket item for sale, wouldn't it be a good idea to slab it and be rid of the potential for this type of situation. A less than $100 investment in a slab would bring a lot of peace of mind to a $19,000 card sale. <br /><br />I would also hope, that in this day and age, a seller of high $$$ items would make a hi-res scan of the high $$$ cards that are sold.

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01-07-2005, 09:41 PM
Posted By: <b>qualitycards.com</b><p>Did this case just end?<br />It appears the transaction happened in '95

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01-08-2005, 01:09 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The transaction happened in 1995 and the buyer sued in 1997. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-08-2005, 11:36 AM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Looks like there was a state law that covered the transaction...in Nebraska. What was not stated was what happened in the transaction itself: Was the deal made in person or through the mail? Was there a written agreement between the parties? Did the seller have proof of what he sold or did he simply admit that the card was the right one? Did the seller and buyer agree on a warranty? Does the law in question permit limits on warranties or as-is sales? If the deal was done in SF, why is the case in another state?<br /><br />There are many ways to protect yourselves as dealers from this situation: (1) scan the fronts and backs of all significant cards so that they can be readily ID'd if a question arises later on; (2) use a written term sheet for all significant sales naming a state which has a law permitting waivers of warranties and listing an express warranty with limits or making the deal an as-is sale; (3) use a third party grader and indicate all sales of third party cards are without warranty; (4) use a written term sheet with choice of law and venue provisions to force a buyer to come to your home town to sue rather than hauling your butt across the country. <br /><br />