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01-01-2005, 01:35 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>OK, had to wade thru the "self serving" cards posted <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> Here is what you all get to vote on.<br /><br />19th century:<br />n172 Moxie Hengle "dead man" pose<br />n172 Ewing and mascot<br />n162 Kelly<br />n172 Whitney and dog<br /><br />t-cards:<br />t227 Cobb<br />t206 Leifield<br />t202 Cobb/Jennings<br />t207 Buschelman<br /><br />e-cards:<br />e96 Brown<br />e94 Cicotte (violet)<br />e93 Cobb<br />1913 Zeenut McCreedie<br /><br />misc sets:<br />33 Goudey Richards<br />Delong Gehrig<br />Western Playground "Bagman"<br />39 Play Ball Al Schact<br /><br />It would be greatly appreciated if scans of these cards can be posted here so others know what they look like.<br /><br />please send your votes to sabrjay@charter.net, do not post them here. Jan 8th will be the last day to vote.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-01-2005, 01:36 PM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Dead Man pose - great card.<br /><br />Gets my vote.

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01-01-2005, 01:47 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>Schacht; McCredie.<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/K162.jpg"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/N172EanJ.JPG"> <br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/E96Br001.jpg"><br /> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/deadman.jpg"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/Schacht1.jpg"><br /> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/McCredie.jpg"> <br /><br />(not voting; just posting, as per Jay's request)

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01-01-2005, 07:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>N162 Kelly<br />T227 Cobb<br />E96 Brown<br />Miscellaneous: No vote. Couldn't we do better? I guess I should have nominated some like R309-1 Ruth, Rice Stix Dean, 38 Goudey Dimaggio & Feller, and lots of others.<br /><br />Changed my 19th C. vote to N162 Kelly. Don't know what I was thinking before. I like the Ewing, but the Kelly is one of my absolute favorites.

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01-01-2005, 08:17 PM
Posted By: <b>Andy Baran</b><p>Blank Ballot

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01-01-2005, 09:52 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>N162 Kelly<br />E96 Brown<br />T227 Cobb<br />Western Playgrounds Bagman (someone better post him, or Leon's website in a prominent place! I tried to post him, but he got cut off, right above his bag.)<br /><br />I think we could have had better choices, too, somehow. There were few nominators, though there were plenty of cards which didn't get in from before. I really think the N167 Ewing should have made it, but then I'm partial to Ewing. Before someone else votes for Ewing and mascot, think how much you'd rather have the Kelly! <br /><br />

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01-02-2005, 12:20 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Can I please get you to send you votes to my email address. I want to keep people from being influenced by the votes of others.<br /><br />sabrjay@charter.net<br /><br />I don't know how anyone can complain about the choices in the Misc catagory. Personally, I think they are the best cards, by far.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-02-2005, 12:55 AM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>I dont see how people can complain either when we had nominations up for weeks,those were obviously the most popular choices,so thats why they are on the ballot.I dont see anything wrong with the misc choices and i didnt hear any better ones that were left off

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01-02-2005, 01:11 AM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>DO YOU WANT THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY VOTED TO SEND THEIR VOTES TO YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS? Oh, I guess Paul was complaining (but then he mentioned all the things he could have nominated but didn't). Sorry, I didn't know attempts to influence were illegal. My bad...

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01-02-2005, 02:07 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Julie, yes, please send them to me<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-03-2005, 12:11 AM
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>N162 Kelly<br /><br />1913 Zeenut McCreedie - that's a nice card!<br />

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01-03-2005, 07:57 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Here is my ONLY complaint:<br /><br />I do NOT think that any one player should have more than ONE card in the HOF...<br /><br />and I do not think that any one SET should have more than ONE card.<br /><br />Thus, Anson and Zeenut are already accounted for.

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01-03-2005, 08:07 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I disagree......it's not about players it's about cards.....and any card of any player should be able to make it.....even your 1907 Recius card....just my opinion....

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01-03-2005, 08:25 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Sometimes life calls for tough choices.<br /><br />The fact of the matter is...<br /><br />that EVERY set has ONE card that is the BEST card in that set...<br /><br />and every player has ONE card of him that is his BEST card.<br /><br />I think we should vote on THESE qualifications first... and THEN vote on which of THOSE should be elected.<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />IN OTHER WORDS...<br /><br />we should vote to see which CAP ANSON card is his BEST card...<br /><br />and which BABE RUTH card is his BEST card...<br /><br />and which TY COBB card is his BEST card...<br /><br />and which JOE JACKSON card is his BEST card...<br /><br />and which N172 Old Judge card is the BEST card in that set...<br /><br />and which N162 Goodwin Champs card if the BEST in that set...<br /><br />and then ONLY THESE WINNERS should be eligible for election in the baseball card HOF.<br /><br />Just my opinion.

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01-03-2005, 08:40 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I was only joking about the "1907" part of my post. However, I still think it is the "card" HOF not the player/card HOF. You mention the word "Best" many times but as in women and baseball cards "best" is a very subjective term. ....Your Recius is a great card and I would think would be one of Wagners best, and certainly the best Recius card around <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> .......although personally I have always liked the E90-2 Wagner card ...later

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01-03-2005, 08:55 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>But Leon...<br /><br />my "fear" is that the HOF would become a shrine to only the same few players over and over.<br /><br />Anson is everyone's favorite... so he gets voted on every time.<br /><br />Are we voting on which cards LOOK the coolest ... or which ones we would rather own (value-wise)???<br /><br />I am sure that there are several COMMON cards in every set that are the most appealling to the eye...<br /><br />like the "dead man" Old Judge!!!<br /><br />If we vote on PURELY the "image" of the card and how "neat" it looks...<br /><br />then we shouldn't care if the player on the card is a HOF'er or a nobody. <br /><br />I am cool with this... but just looking back at the PREVIOUS entries into the HOF...<br /><br />it is clear that "star status" and "market value" had a LOT to do with THOSE cards getting elected... NOT their "eye appeal."<br /><br />I just want to know what the requirements are supposed to be, that's all.

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01-03-2005, 10:32 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Hal, I am with you. I want this to be best and coolest cards. If you've seent he other thread I've started about favorite cards, I ask this same question. <br /><br />I personally dislike the fact that so many HOFers get noiminated. I think this is more a function of the fact that these are the cards people are familiar with. When people look at cards from sets they don't own, they tend to look at the HOFers and pass over commons. <br /><br />As you noted, most of the early nominees are significant cards in the hobby. Personally wouldn't say any of them are worthy of being the best or coolest looking cards. Remove the name and price tag from those card, I doubt anyone would give them a second thought. Especially cards like e90-1 Mitchel, t206 Wagner, P&S REds and the Baltimore News Ruth. There is nothing particularily striking about these cards other than the name and history attached to the card.<br /><br />Becuase of that, I asked a long time back if we should just default in all the significant cards like the Big 3 t206 and t207 cards, the 33 Lajoie, etc.<br /><br />Also, I will openly admit some bias being invovled in what cards get voted on. If you notice, the only catagory that has 2 cards from the same set is the 19c catagory. This was done on purpose, mainly becuase I felt the Hengle and Whitney cards were far better choices than cards from any other set nominated that wasn't already in the final cut.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-03-2005, 10:36 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Maybe we should "divide" up the Baseball Card HOF into the "BASEBALL WRITERS" wing and the "VETERANS COMMITTEE" wing??<br /><br />You could induct all of the "famous" cards in the hobby that are valuable and well-publicized (like the T206 Wagner) into the "MVP" wing...<br /><br />and all of the COOL cards with great images into the "Fan Favorites" wing.<br /><br /><br /><br />

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01-03-2005, 11:03 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>How did ya'll take what I said and turn it around? Go back and see that I AM the one that is advocating "cards" not players. And btw Jay if you don't think the Peck and Snyder or '14 Ruth cards are cool looking then I guess I am at a loss for words.....I guess I will just agree to disagree with you on that subject.......

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01-03-2005, 12:09 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>Also, I agree with Leon that being a great player does not automatically preclude a person from having a great card!

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01-03-2005, 12:23 PM
Posted By: <b>Scott</b><p>...some sets have multiple cards that are "card-HOF worthy". For instance, the t206 set is well-known, popular, and has loads of beautiful cards. Let's say you call the CJ Wagner the nicest card from that set - such a situation would exclude the t206 Wagner from making the card HOF if another card from the t206 set was already in.

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01-03-2005, 12:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>OK Scott... but I can live with that.<br /><br />I have a new idea that I am going to try out.

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01-03-2005, 12:44 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Leon, if you strip away the history of the card and have just the picture, the picture adn design does not jump out at me and say, I'm a great card. The picture itself is like many team photos of the era, and very generic looking to me. Same goes for the Ruth. It jsut doesn't jump out at me. Cards like the e92 Rebel Oakes, Zeenut FAtty Arbuckle and Western Playground "Bagman" jump out at you and scream COOL!!!<br /><br />By the way, can you post a scan of the Bagman so those that haven't already seen it, can? Thanks<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-04-2005, 01:07 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>So far, not counting the votes that are posted here and have not been mailed to me, I have a grand total of 4 votes. If there is no more interest in this project, I will discountinue it.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-04-2005, 01:20 PM
Posted By: <b>Scott</b><p>Basically we are card collectors so I don't see how a card "HOF" could include cards that are unknown to most collectors.

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01-04-2005, 02:22 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The orignal idea for this by John was to create a site for the best cards ever. Not neccessarily the best known or most most valuable.<br /><br />Think of it this way, a lot of people think that Mattingly belongs in the HOF. Strip away the fact the he played for the Yankees and got all the publicity that comes with it, and you have player that pretty good in his day, but doesn't warrant serious consideration for the Hall. Then there is Bobby MAtthews and his 297 wins. Very few people, let alone baeball fans know who he is, but is most certainly deserving of being in the HOF. His obscurity shouldn't preclude his inclusion.<br /><br />It's looking like a moot point anyway since hardly anyone seems interested in this project anymore.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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01-04-2005, 03:33 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian H (misunderestimated)</b><p>I'm in Chicago -- count them twice.... Oh wait I'm still alive.... they only count once.<br /><br />T202 Cobb-Jennings (Conlon Cobb Photo in Center)<br /><br />'39 Playball Schacht -- perhaps the ancestor to the SD CHicken card or the Kurt Bevaeauca (Sp?) bubble gum champion card.<br /><br />OJ N172 -- Ewing/Mascott<br /><br />No strong feelings on the others right now..... Also, in the future, there are some neat multi-players cards from the 30's we should think about and also maybe some Exhibits from the 20's. Th '53 Pee Wee Reese is out of bounds, right ?

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01-04-2005, 03:35 PM
Posted By: <b>Scott</b><p>please get back to me on the Cracker Jack questions I sent - I'm having a hard time finding anyone on the board who knows much about them...or at least who is willing to answer questions. Thanks!

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01-06-2005, 12:44 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Well, it seems there is little interest in the project anymore. I've received fewer than 10 votes. It would seem that Hal is onto the right idea, voting for the best cards of HOFers since there seems to be little interest in cards of "common" players.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.