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11-19-2004, 01:17 PM
Posted By: <b>david</b><p>there have been several posts about the big book since the 2005 edition came out. the more i look thru the book the more i realize how worthless the book is. OJ spotted ties listed at common prices? E92 crofts cocoa's listed at a third the price of dockmans? and e95 listed higher the both crofts cocoa and candy combined. this book has become an oversized checklist. it is as if lemke doesnt even try anymore at acurate pricing, just how many inserts and glossy cards he can stuff into the book. it does a great diservice to the hobby and young collectors when you list extremely rare cards for about 1/10 their actual value.

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11-19-2004, 03:22 PM
Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>...but after seeing bob's mocked up 55 all american gehrig...well i started thinking.<br />this is a monumental task, catalog and PRICE. catalog, ok that's not too hard. but to ACCURATELY price every issue that's pretty tough.<br />the average collector (and most all dealers) need the pricing on mainstream issues. and that's proabably where bob and his staff focus their time.<br />but, even with unlimited time and resources.....how do you price rare items? do you go by the seller's ask price? that wouldn't seem fair. do you go by ebay's "garage sale" price? do you go by the few examples you have, per card, from major auction houses? examples are the way to go (obviously), but what happens when two bidders start going at it? we all know that right? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />now, i do think scd could do a better job reporting actual sales...but that would take more time and money on their part...i'm not sure the ROI for them is worth it. <br /><br />back to my original statement;<br />bob probably could make a living writing or editing something other than baseball cards. after seeing his mocked up gehrig....well...maybe the enemy <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> is one of us afterall.

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11-19-2004, 05:02 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I can vouch for the difficulty of tracking prices. My book is on a much smaller field of endeavor and it still requires daily review of sales figures to collect data. And I do not extrapolate prices either, I just report on actual transactions. If I was trying to make up prices so I would have a price for every card in every grade when no such cards existed, the work would be mind-boggling. <br /><br />The catalogue is the best resource available for card indices and general information and images. The prices are obviously not going to be realistic for more than a nanosecond given the constant flow of new items and new prices. I tend to look at it as more of an idea (a "guide") of the magnitude of an item's price rather than as a pricing resource.

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11-19-2004, 05:03 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>something. I had to got to www.Krause.com and look under "books" and see the familiar cover with Reese flying 2 feet over 2nd base and "2005" at the top...<br /><br />The book is completely worth it, if for nothing else than looking up new cards you're not familiar with, checking the characteristics against something you see on ebay by the same name, and drawing your own conclusions. Of course, if you're already familiar with every set that's ever been made (that's listed, even), more power to you, and you don't need it. <br /><br />At least, not for my part of the book.

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11-19-2004, 06:51 PM
Posted By: <b>honus3415</b><p>...just curious why the catalog isn't on a CD, or available through a subscription on a websight?<br /><br />It could contain thousands more visual samples, up to the minute updates and possibly even a more current pricing guesstimate. Although I think most would agree that any "pricing guesstimate guide" is pretty much a thing of the past and not worth the tree parts it's printed on. Hey, Give us an electronic fill-in-our-own price guide!!!<br /><br />I realize the hardcopy will always be desired by some. But really now, over half of the mass of the catalog (post 1980) forever remains foreign to it's purchasers.<br /><br />Make bats not paper.

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11-19-2004, 06:57 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>and index with good tape, and it's actually portable.<br /><br />Yes, an on-line catalogue would have all sorts of advantages, for those of us who have computers and use them.

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11-19-2004, 07:13 PM
Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>&lt;&lt;...just curious why the catalog isn't on a CD, or available through a subscription on a websight?&gt;&gt;<br /><br />It's quick and simple to copy a cd for free, and people would do it. Paper books have an inherent security for the publisher and writer. It's so much easier to buy the paper book from amazon, than to try and make an illegal copy.<br /><br />Also, the rule of thumb is that people pay for paper books not to view web pages. If you want to diseminate essential information for free you put it on a website. If you want to be paid, you print it onto paper.

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11-19-2004, 08:38 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>I prefer the paper guide over on-line...much more so.<br /><br />David (Hankron) - you just quizzed us recently about newsletters and some people prefer paper while others prefer email. That's what makes a horse-race.<br /><br />I also understand why Krause does it the way they do, after all it's been explained to us every year. I'm sure they want to please their audience while still making money, so they listen to us and do what they can. We adapt, especially those of us with tape and a carpet cutter.<br /><br />Finally, even if every price listed represented the exact market value at the time of publication, it still would be worthless to those of you who don't stay on top of the market, and those of us who do, realize which prices are off-target. Oh, actually there is one change that shouldn't be too difficult, and that would address one of Angry David's concerns - add an extra blank column (or two) so that we can pencil in price changes.<br /><br />(Edited to differentiate Davids)

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11-20-2004, 03:32 AM
Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>I'm no Krause or Bob Lemke or Beckett, but I have for years had both a web site and published little paper guides. If someone were to ask me why I publish a particular subject as a booklet instead of putting it on the website, I would say "Because I want to be paid."

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11-20-2004, 08:33 AM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Paper items are taken more seriously by some readers - anyone can throw together a web-site and changes can be made on the fly, so there are a lot of very professional-looking web-sites that contain garbage, but were very simple to create...and cost is low so there's little incentive NOT to do it.<br /><br />But if you are actually going to mail something out you need to dot your 'i's and cross your 't's in advance, because it's more difficult to correct problems. I have much more respect for a paper newsletter or journal, than a web-site.

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11-20-2004, 01:41 PM
Posted By: <b>Charles Prawdzik</b><p>..and when not reading it, I use if for a paperweight.

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11-20-2004, 03:10 PM
Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>/

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11-26-2004, 11:07 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I buy the Standard catalog every other year. I just use it as a checklist. Seems every time I get it, I find something new that I want for my player<br />collection.

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11-26-2004, 11:45 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>The Standard Catalogue undervalues them; the "Oregon Find" prices are too high, so I guess the actual market value must be somewhere in between...

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11-26-2004, 11:59 PM
Posted By: <b>Jim Clarke</b><p>I just got in my 2005 SCD book. I think they have dropped out more than 50 items from 1865 to 1930. Many Cabinet and post card issues are gone. IE.. Took out 1882 Chicago Photographic Cabinets and probally replaced it with 2005 Upper Deck super Secret pack insert special refractor limited edition card that has been autographed and has a piece of the players jock strap in it! Since 19th century and type issues are pretty hot right now.. Would it not make more sense to do a pre-war only price guide where nothing will be changed other than "New" discoveries and someone can just concentrate on prices in that arena. <br /><br />Why keep 1886 Hancock cards in there? Only 3 known to exist and who cares what the books says about them. You need to have somewhat of a market on them for people to be interested. When one comes to market... low or high is the potential buyer going to use the book as a guide? Why do they book at 20K when the only sale on these happend at 10K... Does not make any sense. <br /><br />Only list items that have more than 5 of that item or more than 10 items in a set. It would be nice to see a "One Of A Kind" spread in there as well (without prices). Just venting... JC

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11-27-2004, 09:04 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Vent away, JC.<br /><br />I already vented when I realized that the Peck & Snyder section was deleted.<br /><br />It does NOT MAKE SENSE that a book called:<br /><br />"The Hobby's biggest and best price guide!"<br /><br />"Comprehensive coverage from 1867."<br /><br />"Extensively updated and expanded."<br /><br />can INTENTIONALLY LEAVE OUT certain issues.<br /><br /><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Either you include everything ... or the book makes no sense.<br /><br />PLEASE MR. LEMKE ... a VINTAGE-ONLY edition!!!

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11-27-2004, 09:46 AM
Posted By: <b>david</b><p>i agree. a big issue i have with the standard catalog is the lack on consistency. in some case cards that are unique are given prices in three grades, all three of which the card does not exist in. and in some case unique cards are identified as such. has anyone ever seen a near mint old mill jackson? for the big book to drop peck and snyders but list obscure 1880 cabinets cards is a mystery. and until a meaningful attempt is made to make n, t and e card pricing at least realistic i will continue to complain.