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11-09-2004, 07:04 PM

Posted By: brian pBeen meaning to create this thread for some time. Below is a list of a paired-up vintage bb card sets. What I thought might be interesting is to find out what cards people like to collect (or would like to collect) between popularly collected cards, with a few less common ones thrown in to add a little spice. Feel free to answer as many as you want, and put in your reasons for choosing one over the other if you desire. About the only restriction on your decisions is that you should not let the value of the cards affect what you choose. N172 Old Judge or N162 Goodwin T205 or T206 E90-1 American Caramel or E95 Philadelphia Caramel E120 American Caramel or E121 American Caramel 1914-15 Cracker Jacks or T204 Ramly 1911 Obaks or 1912 Home Run Kisses 1933 Goudey or 1934-36 Diamond Stars D304 General Baking or D322 Tip Top W514 or W517 N300 or E107 T207 or M116 Sporting Life T3 Turkey Red or T204 Ramly 1933 Tattoo Orbit or 1933 DeLong I will post my choices and reasons later on when I have some flippin' time. Brian

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11-09-2004, 08:44 PM

Posted By: brian pOld Judge vs. Goodwin--the Goodwins win out. They have the most colorful and impressive artwork of any 19th century set, and you actually have the opportunity to complete this bugger. T205 vs. T206--this is a tough one. The T206's are the most popular set out there, and have an incredible array of players of the era, just about every HOF'er, and offers the collector a challenging but doable (minus a handful) goal of completing. The T205's have great portraits and framework around the portraits, and the gold borders add that little something extra. A bonus is the biographical write-up on the back. My vote is for the T205's. Ask me later and I might say T206. E90-1 vs. E95--E95 hands down. A great collection of players, small set size, and in my opinion the best artwork (along with E96) amongst all the small caramel sets. E120 vs. E121--at one time I would have answered the E120 set, because of their ornate borders. But now I think the green and sepia overlays actually detract from the player photos. The E121's, much plainer in design, win out because of their more direct presentation and crisper photos. Cracker Jacks vs. T204's--these are both incredible sets, but I think the Cracker Jacks win out for me because of their continuing association with baseball--when was the last time you smoked a Ramly? 1911 Obak or Home Run Kisses--the 1911 Obaks are one of my all-time favorite sets. They are just about one of the most beautiful cards ever produced, and if you like extremely colorful sky backgrounds, they got 'em. The 1911 also have very interesting (and curiously written)write-ups on the back. The Home Run Kisses are nice, but if they didn't have those distinctive borders, you would just have another early Zeenut card. Don't get me wrong, Zeenuts are awfully cool... 1933 Goudey vs. Diamond Stars--Another tough call. The 33 Goudeys are of course one of the all-time classic sets, with great artwork and selection of the best players of the age. But the Diamond stars are just so different--to me they really reflect the art deco style of artwork of the era. Winner for me is the Diamond Stars. D304 vs. D322 Tip Top (good golly, I hope I got the Tip Top ACC designation correct)--both of these are tougher to come by, and measure the same less common size, but the D304's win out convincingly. I love the full body action cards. W514 vs. W517--hey, strip cards have feelings too. The W514's are the best (along with the W551's) of the colored drawing artwork strip sets, and have the advantage of having all those Black Sox players. The W517's have just never cut it for me--a great selection of players, but the photos are just too grainy and have that sepia (and other color) overlay that makes them even more blurry. N300 vs E107--a toss-up, can't decide, beats me. T207 vs. M116--both of these sets are ones with traditionally limited overall collector appeal. Some people just don't like the drab T207 brown design, and a mediocre player selection. The M116's have always seem so washed out to me. Both have a silly amount of scarcities. I give the nod to the T207's, just because there is a nice mix of potraits and and action/fuller body poses, wheareas the M116's are all just portraits. T3 vs. T204 (hey, I accidently put in T204's twice!)--Nevertheless, I pick the T3's (sorry Ramly again). They are also so beautiful, and since they larger in size, are perfect for framing. Tattoo Orbit vs. Delong--Neither of these appeal too much to me. The Delong cards are just awkwardly designed, and the Tatto Orbits have a bad mix of colors and facial tones. I go with the Tattoos on this one--they do have a neat size. So there you have it, Brian

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11-09-2004, 10:11 PM

Posted By: john/z28jdN172 Old Judge or N162 Goodwin- easiest choice on this list as old judges are my favorite set ever and i dont care for goodwins T205 or T206-2nd easiest choice as t206s are my 2nd favorite set and i dont like t205s much with the exception of the minor league cards.If the entire t205 set was the same as the minor leaguers i might change my vote E90-1 American Caramel or E95 Philadelphia Caramel- with a few exceptions i like e90s more than e95s E120 American Caramel or E121 American Caramel- i like both of these sets so i can go either way 1914-15 Cracker Jacks or T204 Ramly- t204s are a great set just missing big names,love the design so they win out 1911 Obaks or 1912 Home Run Kisses- not big on either of these sets but obaks i at least have a few of and like them,so ill choose them 1933 Goudey or 1934-36 Diamond Stars-dont collect either but if i did it would be goudeys D304 General Baking or D322 Tip Top-im a Pirates fanatic so this is an obvious choice W514 or W517- 517s because they are real pictures N300 or E107-dont care much for either but id choose n300s because they are older T207 or M116 Sporting Life- t207s because theyre not all portraits like the m116s T3 Turkey Red or T204 Ramly-t3s are like big t206s so id take them any day over t204s 1933 Tattoo Orbit or 1933 DeLong-meh,dont have opinion or interest in either

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11-10-2004, 09:35 AM

Posted By: JuliePost blew away. No time! 1. Can't choose. No fair! They are opposites, ecxcept for size--most 19th century collectors love both N162 and N172. 2. T206--better selection and design, except for Joss...compare the 4 Cobbs with T205's one. 3. E95 4. E121 5. T204 Ramly. This black and white and gold set grows on you. 6. Home Run Kisses. Love the big sepia photos. 7. 1933 Goudey. Number 181 makes up for all other faults. 8. D322 Tip Top. Love the colors. 9. W 514. Tentative likenesses for some(as opposed to what someone else said), but who can ignore all those Black Sox? 10. N300 or E107? Can't choose again. You keep pairing my favirotes! 11. Don't like either T207 OR Sporting Life--dislike basic color scheme of both. 12. T3-- I already picked the Ramly earlier. 13. DeLong. Tatoo Orbit is so limited. What are colors for?<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/Dddf.jpg">

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11-10-2004, 03:13 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorI submit a variation on this theme. Ten choices to make between equal condition cards in the T206 set, excluding value: 10. Cobb Red vs. Cobb Green 9. Cobb Bat On vs. Cobb Bat Off 8. Tinker Portrait vs. Evers Cubs w/ bat vs. Chance Batting 7. Magie vs. Magee 6. Lundren Cubs vs. G. Browne Washington 5. Seymour Portrait vs. Wiltse Portrait w/ Cap 4. Kleinow Boston Catching vs. Elberfield Washington Portrait 3. Rhoades Arm Extended vs. Abbaticchio Blue Sleeves 2. McGraw Portrait w/ Cap vs. McGraw Portrait w/o Cap 1. Wagner vs. Plank ------ My answers: 10. Cobb Green (I'll take Green over Red any day) 9. Bat On (I've never liked the colors in Bat Off) 8. Tinker Portrait (Gotta love the hair!) 7. Magie (Just to own one) 6. Lundgren Cubs (Better image) 5. Wiltse Cap (My Seymour Portrait is in awful condition) 4. Kleinow Boston (Gotta love the catching pose) 3. Abbaticcio Blue Sleeves (harded for me to get than Rhoades) 2. McGraw w/o Cap (Looks more serious) 1. Wagner (Perhaps the greatest shortstop of all-time)

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11-10-2004, 03:28 PM

Posted By: Julie10. I also much prefer the green..is it really exactly the same picture? 9. I prefer the colors in "Bat Off," but think "Bat On" looks more like Cobb, and less like a sweet young man. 7. Pretty obvious, isn't it? 4. You get the great catcher's mask in either the Boston or the other Kleinow (N.Y.)--but then, the choice is with another rare card... 1. Yeah, I'd prefer the Wagner. But Plank has a wonderful face...

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11-10-2004, 07:33 PM

Posted By: TbobN172 Old Judge or N162 Goodwin- Old Judges are pretty drab in appearance. Not a 19th century guy but I'll go with the Goodwins. T205 or T206- T205 hands down. The American Leaguers may be the best card "subset" ever produced in terms of color, eye appeal and aesthetics. E90-1 American Caramel or E95 Philadelphia Caramel- Depends on condition. In higher condition the E90-1s can't be beaten. E120 American Caramel or E121 American Caramel- Toss up. Don't like either. 1914-15 Cracker Jacks or T204 Ramly- Ramlys are so ornate, I give them the nod. 1911 Obaks or 1912 Home Run Kisses- Not even close. The Obaks are undervalued, underappreciated and just plain great. Personally I like the 1910s better than the 1911s but the '11s are still nice. 1933 Goudey or 1934-36 Diamond Stars- Goudeys although I collect neither. D304 General Baking or D322 Tip Top- Close, neither set does much for me, I guess I'll go with the Tip Tops. W514 or W517 Who cares? T207 or M116 Sporting Life Man, can't believe you guys are dissing these 2 sets. Check the buy/sell prices on these cards compared to the buy/sell on the (non T207) tobacco and caramel cards and come back in 5 years and I think you'll be floored. Both of these sets have huge growing room for investment. The scarcities in these 2 sets are incredibly tough, especially the M116s which seem to NEVER pop up. The T207s are surrealistic, moody, dark and beautiful. They belong in the Louvre while the other cards T201 through T216 belong in the local art gallery. Sporting Life cards may be muted in color but nice examples are gorgeous. Nothing beats a T207, though, except maybe a violet E94 <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-10-2004, 09:17 PM

Posted By: DaveT206collector, You seem to have access to my missing list. It's odd that I know the cards that I'm missing much better than the ones that I own. I'm looking for the missing ones on ebay all the time; the ones I own don't get examined much at all. Here's my choices: 10. Cobb Red vs. Cobb Green I actually like the Red more than the Green, even though the green has higher value for the same grade. 9. Cobb Bat On vs. Cobb Bat Off Definitly the bat off. I have the Bat On (twice), so I spend all my time looking at the bat off cards. Of the reasonable T206 cards, this is my most expensive missing. 8. Tinker Portrait vs. Evers Cubs w/ bat vs. Chance Batting I generally like action cards more than portrait, but I'm missing 2 of these, and would go with the Evers. 7. Magie vs. Magee I actually don't loose sleep over error cards. I'll take the standard, the Magee. 6. Lundren Cubs vs. G. Browne Washington Both of these are duplicate player images. The Lundgen Cubs is repeated in the Lundgren Kansas City (the Chicago has a better background), while the Browne is repeated in Chicago. Very similar backgrounds. Which is better? Probably the Lundren Cubs, but close. 5. Seymour Portrait vs. Wiltse Portrait w/ Cap The Wiltse is a great portrait, with the funny break in the sweater. But the Seyour has a goofy grin, so I'll go with the Wiltse. 4. Kleinow Boston Catching vs. Elberfield Washington Portrait The Kleinow has been a card I've been chasing for quite a while, but I'm too cheap. One went tonight for $200+. Nice card. And the Elberfield is a great portrait. I'll go with Kleinow. 3. Rhoades Arm Extended vs. Abbaticchio Blue Sleeves I like the Rhoades. The Abbaticchio pose looks awkward to me. 2. McGraw Portrait w/ Cap vs. McGraw Portrait w/o Cap Both are nice, with the red background. Small edge to the w/out cap. 1. Wagner vs. Plank Gotta go with the Wagner. Both are great, elevated by the mystic of rarity. Maybe I just like orange instead of blue for the background.

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11-10-2004, 09:26 PM

Posted By: john/z28jd10. Cobb Red vs. Cobb Green 9. Cobb Bat On vs. Cobb Bat Off 8. Tinker Portrait vs. Evers Cubs w/ bat vs. Chance Batting 7. Magie vs. Magee 6. Lundren Cubs vs. G. Browne Washington 5. Seymour Portrait vs. Wiltse Portrait w/ Cap 4. Kleinow Boston Catching vs. Elberfield Washington Portrait 3. Rhoades Arm Extended vs. Abbaticchio Blue Sleeves 2. McGraw Portrait w/ Cap vs. McGraw Portrait w/o Cap 1. Wagner vs. Plank 10-cobb red,like the background better 9-bat on,dont really like the bat off but it is the last t206 i bought 8-Evers,ive voiced my dislike with portraits before and chance batting looks alot like tinker batting 7-Magie,even with no monetary value,i still like error cards better 6-Lundgren,better background,one of the nicer ones in the set 5- Seymour,probably just because of background color 4- Kleinow definitely 3- Abbaticchio,im a Pirates fan 2- Mcgraw w/cap 1-Wagner,im a Pirates fan

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11-11-2004, 05:34 AM

Posted By: warshawlawT205-T206: T206 all the way: I prefer the spare, cleaner look like the 1953 Bowman set, which I think is the prettiest of all. T205 has too much going on. I've stopped and started T205 a couple of times but I always end up trading them for T206's I need T207-M116: No comparison for me. T207 doesn't look like much--washed out and dingy, and no comparison in terms of player selection. N300-E107: I like the larger format of the N300 set. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1100180046.JPG">

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11-11-2004, 10:18 AM

Posted By: runscottN172 Old Judge or N162 Goodwin - I like them both, and they are so different that I think there's more than enough room for both. I only like the N172's that have clear photos, not those faded blurry ones. T205 or T206 - I'm finally bored with t206's and starting to pick up a few T205's (I especially like the AL design), but the T206s will always be great. E90-1 American Caramel or E95 Philadelphia Caramel - E95's, hands-down. The Cobb is one of the greatest cards ever. 1914-15 Cracker Jacks or T204 Ramly - Cracker Jacks are much more interesting. Some are ugly, some are incredible. The HR Baker and Cicotte are my favorites (and I finally have both!) 1911 Obaks or 1912 Home Run Kisses - OBAKs, OBAKs, OBAKs. Too bad there wasn't a ML issue designed like these. All three years are slightly different in design/feel, but they are all top-notch. 1933 Goudey or 1934-36 Diamond Stars - I prefer the '33 Goudeys, but DS's are nice too W514 or W517 - I thought you said this was a thread about 'cards'? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> T207 or M116 Sporting Life - T207s, though both are ugly.

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11-13-2004, 09:06 AM

Posted By: brian pGreat responses on the cards. They even reminded me of another reason why I like collecting vintage bb cards--so many choices. More responses are welcome. I know I presented a pretty tough task with lots to consider. Feel free to answer only a handful or even just one of the choices--it is fun to read about people's opinions on the cards. One further note--reading the responses on the M116's vs. the T207's (especially Tbob's) reminded me of another reason why I prefer the T207's--the dark background actually draws your eye and focuses your attention upon the player. Because of the brooding color scheme you can't help but to wonder "what is troubling this young man? He must have an interesting story to tell." Brian

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11-13-2004, 11:18 AM

Posted By: leonN172 Old Judge or N162 Goodwin - toss up..both have attributes I like equally T205 or T206- .... T205 ...more interesting to me... E90-1 American Caramel or E95 Philadelphia Caramel- E90-1....more diversity E120 American Caramel or E121 American Caramel- E120, more ornate 1914-15 Cracker Jacks or T204 Ramly- T204.....beautiful (gay word) set 1911 Obaks or 1912 Home Run Kisses- HR Kisses- see last description 1933 Goudey or 1934-36 Diamond Stars- toss up.... D304 General Baking or D322 Tip Top- D322 design- toss up both very cool,maybe D304 by a little bit... W514 or W517- what's a "w" ? (they get no respect) N300 or E107 - toss up, both are very cool T207 or M116 Sporting Life- another toss up T3 Turkey Red or T204 Ramly- T204 ....see word "beautiful" although T3 is nice too 1933 Tattoo Orbit or 1933 DeLong- toss up....both have cool designs...maybe Delong by a little bit... good question regards leon

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11-13-2004, 12:04 PM

Posted By: Mark HoltT206 and Diamond Stars out of your choices. Diamond Stars because they are cool and more affordable than 33 Goudeys. T206 because there are so many available (and therefore somewhat affordable).

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11-14-2004, 01:39 PM

Posted By: Steve1. N172 Old Judge - just because of the pose variations and plethora of HOFers (I'd still want the N162 Kelly) 2. T206 - Pose variations again, and besides, you can't pass up The MONSTER! 3. E95 Philadelphia Caramel - Beautiful colors and poses (I especially love the Wagner and Matty) 4. E121 American Caramel - I just like the design better 5. 1914-15 Cracker Jacks - More HOFers in the set (The only T204 I want is Johnson) 6. I'm not familiar with either set 6. 1933 Goudey - Three words...Ruth and Gehrig! 7. D322 Tip Top - LOVE the Wagner! 8. Not familiar with either set 9. N300 - Kinda brings me the feel of T207 in that it seems to have an "Old West" type of design 10. T207 - I love the Old West and this set just seems to me to reflect the Old West type of design 10. T3 Turkey Red - The easiest choice on the list..T3 is simply the BEST set ever issued!! 11. 1933 DeLong - Tatoo Orbits to me are just too small and the designs don't do anything for me; plus, DeLong has Gehrig! Steve

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11-15-2004, 08:34 AM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesI have had a lot of difficulty convincing myself of some of the preferences outliuned below. So if some of my observations and arguments appear a bit feeble, rest assured that I view them similarly. N172 or N162: well, although as Julie points out, these are opposites; nothing compares to OJs, in my estimation. So, although the N162s contain tremendous artistry and an excellent example of the printing capabilities at that time, I have to select the n172s on their diversity and quaintness. T205/T206: T205 due to design + gold border. Good blending of style and ornate presentation. CJ/Ramly: CJ = uniform solid background. These cards look tremendous when viewed together, such as an uncut sheet. Ramly has ornate presentation with a mediocre player portrayal. 1933 Goudey/Diamond Stars. If it wasn't that the Diamond Stars include a period art deco format, Id have to choose the crisp, varied solid background shown in the Goudeys. The Goudeys also have superior drawing in my uninformed view. So, Id have to select the DS if it wasn't for the Tattoo Orbits from the same period, which exhibit the same art deco style. In conclusion, this answer is concluded. W514 - W517: Again, opposites. Both sets contain cards key to the players current to their issue. The relatively crude drawing available in one set is offset by the various earthy dual toned, often grainy photos of the other. I haven't started to collect either (almost), but plan to accumulate examples from both sets. N300- E107 This one is simple for me. I prefer the appearance of the Mayos, and the player selection is great. Well, the players in e107 are also great. Actually both sets span a relative void in card production. But I will not waver, N300s are my preference. T207/M116 Although at first glance the M116s look better than the t207s, where the latter really shines is when they are positioned together, as in an uncut sheet. The deep brown backgroung offset by the cream collered player portrayal is very rich looking, in my opinion. T3/Ramly ? Ramly is back? And up against T3s! Maybe I just don't understand Ramlys. There is no comparison here. I think that T3s are great, as are M110s. Tattoo Orbit/DeLongs - I don't like the DeLong cards at all. Thank you for hearing me out. I really do not know most issues well enough to make an informed choice, but those sets that I haven't responded on, I do not know at all. Gil