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10-28-2004, 06:00 AM

Posted By: Mark PeaveyOkay, maybe I'm naive, but this seems strange to me. Last night during the Steve Verkman auction, I placed a maximum bid of $275 on lot 35 during the early stages of the ten minute rule. At the time, it was only bid up to $140. About an hour later, someone matched my bid of $275, and their bid was honored over mine. I talked with Steve, and his response was that only a straight bid would have topped the other bidder - not a maximum bid. I realize he has the right to set his own rules. Do any othe auction houses use this policy? It is not mentioned in his auction rules. I often bid in card auctions, and nothing like this has ever happened before.

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10-28-2004, 10:20 AM

Posted By: Scott Forrestthat would be ridiculous. Ceiling bids are generally set so that when someone bids in the slot below your ceiling, they are told that their bid has been topped and you now are high bidder, at your ceiling. They then have to bid in the next slot above yours.

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10-28-2004, 10:51 AM

Posted By: Julie(not in the auction). He wanted $200 for it, but while he was describing it to me over the phone, he got embarassed and knocked 40 dollars off the price!~ Still, lord only knows what will arrive! <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/Smiles_smiley_62_prv.gif">

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10-28-2004, 11:11 AM

Posted By: dan mckeeWhich ever $275 was placed first should win. I can't imagine that Steve's software is programmed any other way. Are you sure the other bidder didn't have an earlier ceiling bid as well? Dan.

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10-28-2004, 11:42 AM

Posted By: J LevineAll I have to say is that is figures...ceiling bids are placed first...it is the same as a tiebreak...every auction I have ever bid in has the bidder who bid first winning...not the bidder who bid last...another great job done by stevie (sarcasm)...glad I got banned from his auctions...

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10-28-2004, 11:47 AM

Posted By: Mark PeaveyNo, there was no other maximum bid at $275. After placing my maximum bid at $275, I was informed that I was the high bidder at something less than $200. It stayed that way for some time as I continued to monitor the auction. An hour affter placing the bid, I was informed by email that I had been outbid by someone who had bid $275. That bidder won the auction, even though my bid was for the same amount and was submitted about an hour earlier.

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10-28-2004, 12:09 PM

Posted By: leonSince I see Steve at all the Nationals I will reserve my comments. I will say he gladly gives quick refunds.......regards

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10-28-2004, 12:57 PM

Posted By: warshawlawgetting my registration to work, so I skipped it.

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10-28-2004, 04:52 PM

Posted By: Brian McQueen Are you sure that the other guy's bid of $275 was HIS max bid as well? Perhaps his ceiling bid was set higher than $275 but Steve's site set the new current bid at $275 which was your max. The site wouldn't inform you of what the other guy's max was. It could have been $500 for all you know. Under this scenario, it would make sense to me and would be just like Ebay right?

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10-28-2004, 05:57 PM

Posted By: Mark Peaveywhat you mean, Brian. My bid was placed well before the other bid. If his maximum bid was higher than mine, then it should have bumped up to the next increment - not just equalled mine. Anyway, when I spoke with Steve on the phone, he indicated that the other bid was for $275 - not anything higher than that. I specifically asked him if the other bid was higher, and he said no.

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10-28-2004, 06:14 PM

Posted By: Julie...maybe a little over priced at $160, but I'm glad I have it. Lucky you guys--I can't get my new scanner to work. Did I hear a sigh of relief?

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10-28-2004, 07:02 PM

Posted By: SteveMr Peavey placed a bid of $285 at approximately 1103 PM. He then called our office and asked us to remove that bid and place his bid as a bid of $206 with a maximum of $275. He asked me to do this and it was taken care of within one minute. This bid was placed by me, according to the bidding history on our website (<a href="http://www.csauctions.com/bid_history.cgi?show_history=0000215174" target=_new>http://www.csauctions.com/bid_history.cgi?show_history=0000215174</a>). Someone at 11:23 made a bid of $227, the next bid, and then the computer bid on Mr Peavey's behalf at $250. This is where the confusion can set in; in our auction, we do not allow tie bids and all bids must be topped by at least 10%. In other ones, someone cannot top their own bid by accident or on purpose. For that reason, Mr Peavey's $285 max cannot top a $275 bid (He would need to bid $303 to top it). This has always been our policy. In fact, we list suggested maximum bids for every item on our site that shows the increments to be in sets of two. What is upsetting about this in particular is that Mr Peavey called me and had every opportunity during the auction to make a $303 bid if he wanted to win the card. It is kind of ironic that Mr Peavey was trying to save money and actually had us remove his bid, when the best thing (in retrospect) would have been to make the straight bid of $285, in which case the next bidder would have to bid $314. Auctions can sometimes be frustrating for bidders and of course, the last thing we want is confusion among bidders. We have always been consistent in our policies and the maximum bidding info on the page of every lot dies indicate this. Any member that has any concern or question can feel free to email me at info@csauctions.com. Thanks much, Steve Verkman PRECISE BIDDING HISTORY OF ITEM 275.00 (1) 10/28/2004 12:01:36 AM EDT 250.00 (1) 10/27/2004 11:23:53 PM EDT 227.00 (1) 10/27/2004 11:23:53 PM EDT 206.00 (1) 10/27/2004 11:04:35 PM EDT

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10-28-2004, 08:20 PM

Posted By: Mark PeaveyShortly after the ten minute rule went into effect, I tried several times to enter a maximum bid of $275. For whatever reason, the system would not accept it. At that point I decided it might accept a straight bid instead. However, having typed in $275 so many times in my futile attempt to enter a max bid, I acccidentally entered $275 as a straight bid. I immediately realized my mistake and called to correct it. To his credit, Steve corrected my bid, and at this point the bid was at, I think, $187 with me having on file a max bid of $275. My bid was NEVER $285 as Steve claims. I had done the math and knew that $275 was one of the ten percent increments. Since the next increment after $275 would be $303, I assumed it would require a bid of $303 to top my maximum bid. However, about an hour later, I received an email stating that I had been outbid, and that the high bid was now $275. Steve has written that while we discussed this on the phone he offered me the opportunity to up the bid to $303. This is true, he did. I declined, believing that since I was the first to claim the $275 increment it should belong to me at that price, unless somebody else bid $303. If I was willing to pay $303 for the card, that would have been my maximum bid in the first place! Having said that, as I stated before, Steve certainly has the right to set whatever rules he wants for his acutions. I have done business several times with him in the past and never had any problems. I certainly don't mean to question his integrity. It just seems like a bizarre policy to me, and seems sure to alienate bidders.

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10-28-2004, 08:37 PM

Posted By: ElliotI agree, I don't understand why you didn't "own" the $275 level. That's the way it works in other auctions. Having said that, if CS auction rules state otherwise (which Steve implies above) then clearly the other bidder deserves to win the item.

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10-28-2004, 09:13 PM

Posted By: SteveMark, I think I now understand this better. You had bid $206 with a maximum of $275. That would protect you for one increment: 230 is the bid after 206 and you then need 253 to protect you for one increment, which took place as you did. 275 would protect you for two increments only if you HAD THE BID OF 187 - which you did not. I should have explained this more clearly when we spoke last night. Thanks for your kind words, Steve

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10-28-2004, 10:10 PM

Posted By: Julievery confused...<img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> It is only a max bid as long as someone else is two steps down, and if they get to be one step down, it becomes a straight bid. It just HAPPENED to me in Mastro! Anyway, the Smokey Joe Wood is great--and I made a terrible scan of it, so I won't post it. New scanners are a drag to get used to.

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10-28-2004, 11:46 PM

Posted By: peteheritage galleries does this too...its a bunch of b.s...at least they state that they dont have to sell to you..so i guess you've been forwarned if you bid on heritage galleries items....

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10-29-2004, 01:09 AM

Posted By: alHaven't we all agreed to boycott Heritage in response to their 20% premium? i thought so....

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10-29-2004, 08:54 AM

Posted By: JulieFrom Verkman (NOT from the auction): <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/wood5004.jpg"> I'm doing better with the new scanner, but still can't figure out how to increase the resolution without increasing the size of the picture--so this one is low-res. 20%? Leland's is 17.5%--can I boycott them too, Boss?

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10-29-2004, 01:11 PM

Posted By: therealaldavisyes, you have my permission to boycott them, also; and always remember the greatness that IS the oakland raiders.

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10-29-2004, 01:29 PM

Posted By: BryanAfter reading this thread - I agree that it sounds kinda strange. But I do want to say that I have purchased many things from csauctions and have had nothing but great experiences with them. Just thought I would add that because I was beginning to feel left out <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> And yes, let us boycott those crazy money hungry auctions <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-29-2004, 04:52 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognaron a snipe bid that was NOT 10% higher than the underbidder. Stealthbid told me, and put it in RED on my chart--what was I supposed to do, send more money without being asked? Graciously offer iterm to (uncomplaining) underbidder? Did neither...

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10-29-2004, 04:58 PM

Posted By: runscottChannel your energies into productive posts - I'll do the same. This forum used to be for sharing of information, but now it seems the only time people get excited is when they have someone to roast over the flames. Steve Verkman has done a great job of improving his reputation simply by responding to questions honestly and through great customer service - he has certainly changed my opinion of his auctions. He explained how his auctions work - now we know.

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10-29-2004, 05:11 PM

Posted By: Mark M.I understand Steve's explanation. I am new to auctionhouse bidding, but I did notice that other auction houses (i) do count the max bid as a bid, but (ii) only let you set the max bid an even number of increments above your straight bid price. In other words, another auction house would not have accepted Mark's max bid of 275, given that it was an odd umber of increments apart from his max bid of 206, but rather Mark's max bid would have to be eitehr 253 or 303. What Mark could have done to put in a max bid of 275 would have been to put in a straight bid of 235 - then his max bid of 275 would be an even number of increments higher than his straight bid. At least this is how Lew taught me to do it. I agree that the CSAuction's format is misleading on this point - I lost out on several items last night for which I enterred max bids that I now suspect weren't counted as bids for the same reason. "I think I now understand this better. You had bid $206 with a maximum of $275. That would protect you for one increment: 230 is the bid after 206 and you then need 253 to protect you for one increment, which took place as you did. 275 would protect you for two increments only if you HAD THE BID OF 187 - which you did not. I should have explained this more clearly when we spoke last night."

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10-29-2004, 05:54 PM

Posted By: warshawlawOK, I get the idea with mastro, etc., when I end up bidding $110 on a $100 lot, then $121, etc. But in this case $230 is the bid after $206 with a 10% raise rule? How is that the case? 110% of 206 is $226.60, not $230. How does it get to $230? Then it would go $230 to $253, but then 110% of $253 is $278.30, not $283. How does it get there? Argh...help me to understand. Hey, you know us lawyers; all we can do is divide by 3 anyhow <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-29-2004, 08:35 PM

Posted By: Mark PeaveyEnough has been said. Steve and I just see this differently. Let's let it go at that. I will take note and bid accordingly in future auctions. He has responded clearly and fully to my questions, and in no way deserves to have his honesty or reputation questioned.

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10-30-2004, 12:39 AM

Posted By: Lee BehrensAm i the only one out there that thinks there has to be a simplier way this can be done. I don't think I understood the whole thing but if I bid $275 first Then I would think that I would win over another $275 bid. All I know is this whole thread confused me and I thought I had the auctions figured out. I wish I had one of those smilies beating his head because that's the way I felt after reading this thread. Lee

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10-31-2004, 08:23 AM

Posted By: dan mckeeMastro's site avoids this problem by having a drop down box where you have to select a certain ceiling number, you can't just make one up. Therefore, you would always be on the correct increment and not in the middle somewhere like the $285 was. Hence, you would not have had an opportunity to select $285 but $303 would have been the next selection. Steve's method works but you have to pu a little math into it where Mastro does the math for you. Dan.

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10-31-2004, 10:31 AM

Posted By: JulieWITH ITEMS BEGINNING beginnig with $100 and going way up to items beginning with, oh, $3000, each followed by TWENTY increments, so you could figure out where your wallet fit into his bidding scheme for each item...that was real nice! (only took two pages, too) The automated Mastro system is better, I guess, but--can you look WAY AHEAD on a $100 item? I never tried it... I did notice that with Mastro's Collectors' Auction, every itme started with $100, so ever item followed the same bidding pattern, and you could see where yours ewas going from items that had risen quicker...

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10-31-2004, 12:00 PM

Posted By: barrysloateJulie, It's funny you should bring up Lew Lipset's chart, because that is what I have been using as a guide for every one of my auctions. I tore them out of his past catalogs and keep them in plastic; they sit on my desk throughout my auctions and when someone calls to leave a ceiling bid, I pull them out and all my calculations are already worked out. I always give people the numbers and explain they have to bid in even number increments, so that if someone tops them they come back in at the next 10% level. In that way, I never have any confusion as the auction progresses. I think what happened in Steve's case is that the increments became uneven and were confusing, and he was thus left with a situation where two people were allowed to get in at the same bid. That should never happen because all it does is get one those people upset. He just needs a clearer system, that's all. And I have to tell you that the Lipset charts have been a great timesaver for me and it always avoids confusion at the end.