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View Full Version : Hassinger & Courtney TSN "First Issue" on ebay


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05-26-2008, 09:05 PM
Posted By: <b>doug goodman</b><p>It is my understanding that the first issue of TSN was 8 pages and the subsequent reprints were each 6 pages. The issue listed by H&C in their current auction is only 6 (I emailed them to ask). While they do used quotation marks in the title, am I the only one that feels they should note that it is a reprint? Or am I wrong with my understanding about the page count? - Doug

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07-05-2008, 07:30 AM
Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Doug...check out this listing...it states 6 pages also. Where did you hear that it should be 8 pages? Wikipedia says 8 pages, but would appreciate addtitonal source.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=27726" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=27726</a><br /><br />

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07-05-2008, 08:24 AM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>The copy of the first issue on <a href="http://www.paperofrecord.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">&lt;a href="<a href="http://www.paperofrecord.com&lt;/a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.paperofrecord.com&lt;/a</a>" target="_new" rel="nofollow"&gt;<a href="http://www.papperofrecord.com&lt;/a</a>&gt" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.papperofrecord.com&lt;/a</a>&gt</a>; has eight pages. Not sure why the American Memorabilia copy lists only six pages, but I can imagine at least two scenarios.<br /><br />Paper of Record has all of TSN (and many other papers). It's now free, and while all the copies aren't necessarily great (old scotch tape obscure parts of the pages), it's an amazing resource.<br /><br />Max<br /><br />[edited for typo]

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07-05-2008, 08:28 AM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>[Gah. Can never figure out how to edit hyperlinks here (have I ever said how antiquated Net54 is compared to other forums?}]<br /><br />reposted here:<br /><br />The copy of the first issue on <a href="http://www.paperofrecord.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.paperofrecord.com</a> has eight pages. Not sure why the American Memorabilia copy lists only six pages, but I can imagine at least two scenarios.<br /><br />Paper of Record has all of TSN (and many other papers). It's now free, and while all the copies aren't necessarily great (old scotch tape obscure parts of the pages), it's an amazing resource.<br /><br />Max

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07-05-2008, 09:34 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree the Net54 s/w is antiquated. As you know, when put to vote, members overwhelmingly voted not to change s/w. I was in the minority too. I could force the issue but then I wouldn't be doing what the majority wants...regards

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07-05-2008, 10:19 AM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Leon<br /><br />I love manual typewriters, wax seals for letters and driving Ford F350s (OK, maybe not the latter), but progress will normally and inevitably occur. For one thing, there are forums where you can simply cut and paste your photo to load it. That feature alone is worth the change. However, I agree with you about the members' reactions. At some point, however, the marketplace will either force network54 to change, or it will simply fail financially. Hopefully, it is the former.<br /><br />Max

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07-05-2008, 10:45 AM
Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Max...would you mind sharing if the 2 scenarios are:<br />1. They are selling reprints<br />2. Issues are incomplete<br />They have sold 3, each going for $1400-$2300.<br />FWIW, how do you identify a reprint and when where they generated.<br /><br />Hate to admit it, but my interest isn't purely academic. (altho I wasn't one of those 3 auctions)

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07-05-2008, 11:28 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Here is what I just posted on the technical help part of the Net54 board...<br /><br />"I keep getting beat up by members on my forum to go to another hosting site that has functionality akin to PHP type s/w, or a PHP based one. Is Network54 going to continue to stay antiquated? I am in the minority on wanting to change as my members like what we have. I have a premier membership and our forum gets close to 1 million views a month. It would sure be nice to have some newer s/w to do the things I see on other sites. Eventually, if nothing at Net54 changes, I will have to take my several thousand users elsewhere...Nothing personal and overall I like Net54 a lot...I just need some functionality like total number of posts, posting pictures more easily, having many more features etc.....I think we have done almost as much as can be done at this point with my forum....which is quite a bit but not close to what newer PHP s/w can do. We have been here for almost 7 yrs........regards"<br /><br /><br />I will let ya'll know what they say....<br /><br />edited to add...sorry this is O/T .....but thought I would see what I can find out and report back.....maybe Max and I will go find another hosting site <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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07-05-2008, 11:36 AM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p><br />Mark<br /><br />Five scenarios I can think of:<br /><br />1. Reprint is being sold knowingly<br />2. Reprint is being sold unknowingly<br />3. Original being sold with two missing pages<br />4. Two editions of 1st issue, one printed with 8 pages, one printed with 6<br />5. The auction house miscounted the pages and erroneously listed six pages in the description, and there were really eight.<br /><br />Max<br /><br /><br />

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07-05-2008, 11:39 AM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Mark<br /><br />Steve Gietschier of TSN is frequently a poster on SABR and some other forums. I've emailed him and see if he has any more information.<br /><br />Max

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07-05-2008, 12:06 PM
Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Thanks Max...I went back to the listings by Americanmemorablia.com and see all 3 have 6 pages and the listing from 2006 gives a 100% Authentic/AMI authentication. I don't know if that's akin to a PRO Gem Mint baseball card grading...I hope not. I went to POR and definately count 8 pages (LOL) I was thinking I will call TSN on monday and see if there were 2 initial printings ..one of 6 and on of 8.<br />I collect complete years of TSN, and have most of 1927-1956. The holy grail was <br />won on the auction Doug referenced...I didn't see his post until this morning. <br />I would appreciate opinions on whether I can get my paypal payment back if this issue is in fact a reprint. Their disclaimer seems to be mostly about condition.<br /><a href="http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110252383653" target="_new" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110252383653</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110252383653</a</a>>

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07-05-2008, 12:16 PM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Mark<br /><br />It takes a lot of work to get a 97.9% feedback rating on ebay <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

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07-05-2008, 12:21 PM
Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>any opinion about Americanmemorablia.com ...and their assurances of authenticity wrt a 6 page issue? Are they "light- weights"? ie PRO

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07-05-2008, 02:02 PM
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Mark<br /><br />Steve wrote back. He's no longer with TSN, but he did provide a couple very interesting points:<br /><br />1. other than the TSN copy, he has never seen another original<br />2. the earliest reprints started in 1936.<br />3. the original had 8 pages, the reprints all have 6<br /><br />Max

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07-05-2008, 02:32 PM
Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Max...I just have two words to say:<br /><br />Thanks....<br /><br /><br />Bummer....

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07-05-2008, 07:07 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think these are all reprints. I wouldn't touch them.

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07-05-2008, 09:46 PM
Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>I have always heard that there is only one original and that it is low grade (probably the TSN copy). Of course, whenever somebody claims to have the "only one" of some item, another pops up within two weeks.<br /><br />Scott

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07-08-2008, 12:33 AM
Posted By: <b>John Ross</b><p>My understanding is the first issue was 8 pages, then TSN itself reprinted it in 1961 using 8 pages. Don't know how they filled out the extra 2 pages, maybe spacing or pront size.

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07-08-2008, 09:21 AM
Posted By: <b>Doug Goodman</b><p>I believe that TSN reprints of the first issue are only 6 pages instead of the actual 8 of the first issue due to the deletion on advertisements. I am on a business trip and don't have access to my source of any of my information, but it's from a magazine price guide that I've had for a number of years which was authored by David Alexander and Robert CRestohl. <br /><br />Doug

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07-08-2008, 12:39 PM
Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Doug, I also have their book and unless I'm blind, there is no discussion of number of pages. I just called Robert Crestohl and he says he's never seen one. He gave me a name to ask for at TSN, and I hope to get him today. FWIW, Hassinger & Courtney responded to my e-mail and said I can return it for a complete refund ( including buyer's premium) I'm impressed, but I plan on a little more gum shoe work first before returning it.<br /><br />Added later...<br />I just saw Max cited Steve Gietschier.....he's Robert's TSN source... Max says Steve no longer works for TSN. I am definitely confused since I called TSN Vault and left a message at Steve's extension.

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07-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>It's good to hear the H&C will take it back for a full refund. I've bought many times from them without problem.

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07-08-2008, 04:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Not shocked that American Memorabilia and the 100% Authentic Team would misrepresent this piece (3 times, no less...) Do you think that if we notified AMI about their error, they would offer up refunds to the 3 bidders who have paid through the nose for a reproduction? And IMO the answer to the question posed above is YES... AMI is to Memorabilia as PRO is to card grading. <br /><br />At least its good to know that "Miss K" is responsible for styling those classy models on the back pages of the current AMI Catalogue. It would be just a shame if AMI focused all of their efforts on providing quality offerings, accurate listings, and timely payments to consignors.

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07-08-2008, 11:57 PM
Posted By: <b>Doug Goodman</b><p>Mark - Thank you for the correction. When I get home next week I will try to figure out where I got my info, but I suppose it doesn't really matter now that we have confirmation from Steve Gietschier.