Can Anyone Identify These Braves Oldtimers?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Photos are circa 1970<br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/?action=view&current=atlbraves1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/atlbraves1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/?action=view&current=atlbraves2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/atlbraves2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Just guessing, but:<br /><br />First photo:<br /><br />second from left: Bobby Shantz<br />third from left: Wally Moses<br /><br />Second photo:<br /><br />Black guy, bottom row: Satch?

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>More guesses (don't pile on if I'm wrong--I haven't consulted other images to double-check--just shooting from the hip):<br /><br />First player, first photo: Looks like London, Ontario native Tom Burgess, although I think he was with another organization at the time (Mets?).<br /><br />Other black guy, second photo: Minnie Minoso?<br /><br />EDIT: If the player I identified as Burgess isn't him, something is telling me to think "Phillies". Don't know why--perhaps some long-forgotten image from an old gum card is ricocheting around in my brain!

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Jodi, I wondered if that was Satchel Paige in the bottom photo, but I didn't think he ever worked or played in the Braves organization. I didn't grow up near a major league organization so I'm wondering if when they had old timers games they would invite anyone who would come and not necessarily players connected to the organization.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Did Paige ever play for the Atlanta Black Crackers? I thought he did have some professional connection to that city.<br /><br />The one I am most certain of is Wally Moses, who was a Georgia native. That would explain why he was there. Also, did he not spend some time coaching the Braves during spring training? 1970 marked his last year as an active MLB coach (with the Tigers, I believe).<br /><br />It IS odd, however, that all of these players would be clad in Atlanta uniforms. Perhaps it was a cheaply-orchestrated old-timer's function. I know nothing of this event, so can't be of any help in that regard.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I got them with a group of Braves Family Day photos where the player's kids would play a game. They could be from the same year, but they are not from the same set of photos.<br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/?action=view&current=atlbraves17.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/atlbraves17.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/?action=view&current=atlbraves15.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/atlbraves15.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/?action=view&current=atlbraves12.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/atlbraves12.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/?action=view&current=atlbraves13.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/Vintage%20Baseball%20Snapshots/atlbraves13.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Posted By: <b>Paul Muchinsky</b><p>Another clue---any stadium experts out there? Second photo, lower left corner, looks like an auxilliary scoreboard. Catcher's mitt on lower left figure---a left-handed catcher? Black guy, back row---George Crowe?

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Posted By: <b>Tom Hufford</b><p>I'm fairly certain these photos are from an Atlanta Braves Old-Timers game from the sometime in the mid-1970s. The Braves often usually staged these games using former players who lived in the Atlanta area, and area players who had played with the old minor league Atlanta Crackers.<br /><br />Jim Greengrass, who was a deputy sheriff in nearby Cobb County (my home), was a frequent participant in these games. I only knew him in the 1980s-90s, but I think he might be the guy on the left in the first (top) photo. Compare with old Topps/Bowman cards.<br /><br />I don't know the second player, but am 99% percent sure the third player from the left is Bob Montag, all-time Atlanta Crackers HR leader. I told Bob one time that in view of his terrific minor league career, it was a real shame he never got a shot at the majors. He responded, "But I did. When I was called up to the Braves in 1950, I got into one game as a late-inning defensive replacement. But the scorer didn't notice, didn't put me in the boxscore, and that was that." Bob related details of that game to me, as well as events of the next day, when one of the other outfielders was hurt, and Bob was sure he would start. Instead, manager Billy Southworth used Sibby Sisti to start in RF (Sisti's only OF appearance that year), Montag had words with Southworth about why he didn't start, and that pretty much sealed his fate. Ernie Johnson and Roy Hartsfield, other 1950 Braves rookies, have confirmed to me that indeed Montag was up with the team that season, too, but don't remember anything about his phantom game. So, unless there is a contemporary newspaper account somewhere that might have mentioned Montag's appearance (and I haven't found one yet), he's not counted among those who can claim the title "Major Leaguer."<br /><br />And, I believe that the player on the right in the top photo is the very popular Ralph "Country" Brown, longtime Southern League outfielder from northeast Georgia. He was a star with the Crackers in the late 1940s/early 1950s, and could probably have been elected the Mayor of Atlanta, had he ever chosen to run.<br /><br />No idea right now on the players in the other photo.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Thanks Tom!!! That story about Montag's phantom game is intriguing. <br /><br />Here's a photo I found on the net of him - I think you can put your guestimate up to 100% on that one.<br /><img src="http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/media_content/m-5759.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>bobw</b><p>I'm just guessing here but in the second photo,the black man in the second row looks like Buck O'Neil.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I dont think there is a person alive who knows more about baseball history in general and at least in the Southern United States than Tom Hufford does. He is seriously a walking encyclopdia (and better in some cases like the instance above). That is a cool story and I wonder if you dig up newspaper accounts to corroborate the story and give him his rightful place next to Moonlight Graham in the Baseball Encyclopedia.<br /><br />Rhys

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Posted By: <b>Bob Lemke</b><p>in 1968-69. The other Black guy is definitely not George Crowe.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Thanks Bob, I just found some info on Paige's stop in Atlanta. It was in 1969 and he was signed as a pitching coach, but it was more as a PR move to gain an "attraction" to the team in their new hometown. Paige apparently did most of his coaching from his "living room in Kansas City". Signing Paige also helped him fulfill some of his pension requirements. <br /><br />I would bet that those top photos I posted are from 1969.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>I for one am unwilling to disagree with Tom on anything baseball-related! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />OK, guess I was off on my call of Wally Moses. It really <i>does</i> look like him, though!<br /><br />Will agree with Tom about Greengrass. That's where I got my thought of the Phillies from--Jim played his last year and a half with them.<br /><br />The black guy standing up in the second pic can't be George Crowe--Crowe was bespectacled even during his playing days. Funny thing about Crowe--I read that he leads a "Robinson Crusoe-like existence" in upstate NY. Can anyone add any insight to that? Apparently that means he doesn't have a phone. He certainly hasn't been an obliging signer for at least 15 years, perhaps longer.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Hufford</b><p>Now that I've given it some thought, the black fellow with glasses, on the left in the first row (second photo) may well be James "Red" Moore. It looks like a first-baseman's mitt, and Red was a first-baseman with the Atlanta Black Crackers in the 1930s-40s. It looks like I think Red may have looked about 40 years ago. He's now about 90, still lives in Atlanta, and has a real sharp memory about his baseball days.<br /><br />I don't think any of these players are Satchell Paige, although he did have an Atlanta connection at about this time. Paige was signed by the Braves as a coach in 1969 to give him enough major league service to qualify for a pension. He spent most of his time in a rocking chair in the bullpen.