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11-18-2007, 04:30 PM

Posted By: David DavisI was surprised that there was no mention of the baseball photo in the description of this lot. Does anyone know an approximate value for the baseball image? <a href="http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=28267&viewitem=&item=200170544298#la-image-1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=28267&viewitem=&item=200170544298#la-image-1</a>

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11-18-2007, 04:50 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackThe value of the baseball photo is less than the winning bid. I don't know what the other items in the lot are worth.

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11-18-2007, 04:50 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWow...I never even noticed that auction.

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11-18-2007, 05:44 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI feel like I've seen that Monitor photo before. It looks very familiar. I think it would be worth several hundred dollars, and it is quite nice, but they were not an important team.

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11-18-2007, 06:55 PM

Posted By: Alan ElefsonHi- I believe the bulk of the lot's value lies in the ship drawing and the diary/journal. My guess (although I could be completely wrong) is that the baseball photo had no value at all in determining bidding. Military collectors can be as crazy as baseball collectors in their pursuit of artifacts. I also agree that the photo looks a little familiar (perhaps it is just the uniform style). Alan Elefson

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11-18-2007, 07:14 PM

Posted By: CarltonHendricksGreat photo no question. Those bib fronts really make it.... <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1195354273.JPG"> ....and look at the size of the bat at the bottom right, and the shoes look like they are probably are real clear to see if you were holding the photo. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1195354447.JPG"> The size of the photo looks pretty good photorgraphed in front of the large folio album. The whole group of stuff really has a qualtiy look to it all. What a cache! I don't know that nautical area but it wouldn't surprise me the buyer sells something in the group for big money, like the queen of Hawaii photos..Maybe one piece would sell for more than the $2,600.00. Nothing like having the name of the team on the photo...that's a big step up from generic nice baseball team photo with no name and no chance of ever researching. Great name Monitor. Monitor was a type of war ship, and there was a U.S.S. Monitor that was the first iron clad war ship. Wikipedia says it went down Dec. 31 1862. Could it be possible this was the ships team? But realistically the uniforms appear latter. Make them an offer for the Baseball photo and see what happens. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Monitor" target="_new" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Monitor</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Monitor</a</a>>

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11-19-2007, 07:25 PM

Posted By: J LevineThis is not the Monitor ship...I think this is a club from Weehawken, NJ. There was a baseball club there and a place called the Monitor Base Ball Club Grounds. I know a google search will turn up some old NY Times articles on the place and team. A few years ago I found a reference to a few Phillies from 1890 playing an exhibition against them. That would be my guess as to the origin of the picture. Joshua

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11-19-2007, 10:20 PM

Posted By: CarltonHendricks<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9804E1D7133AE033A25753C3A9649D94689FD7CF&oref=slogin" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9804E1D7133AE033A25753C3A9649D94689FD7CF&oref=slogin</a> I gooogled the words "Monitor Babseball" and got the NY Times clipping just as Joshua said, link above. Boy that was complicated. A trip to the local Weehawkin N.J. historical society or access to newspaper microfilm would probably yeild a lot. Or if anyone has deep internet research skills maybe they could tap into some database. But that's a lot of work for a $300.00 photo...unless of course you hit paydirt and found some important link to the big leagues. Nice going Joshua!

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11-28-2007, 06:46 PM

Posted By: AnonymousThere may have been other teams calling themselves the Monitors too. I know of one in my area that played during the 1860's. Any idea when the photo was taken?

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11-28-2007, 07:35 PM

Posted By: Jimmyas stated above The "NARRAGANSETT" Ship design and map are worth more than the baseball photos - it was a great lot with some interesting history. Its not always baseball that demands the most money. My estimate for the baseball photos would still be around 800.00 or maybe more Jimmy

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01-09-2008, 09:07 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWell this is what the photo sold for - <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2p6xgz" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2p6xgz</a> It was definitely the Naval team.

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01-09-2008, 11:58 AM

Posted By: CarltonHendricksThe seller Tom Cardiopoli, a friend coincidently, posted the following info at the bottom of the listing, plus close ups, one which shows an iron clad monitor vessel on the front of one of the bib front jersey. That's one awsome jersey! And to top it off he's I.D.'d the players....wow On Jan-06-08 at 13:21:25 PST, seller added the following information: A kind eBay friend sent the following player identification from a Naval Academy Archivist: (Standing)J.J. Hunker, G.A. Calhoun, H.M. Jacoby, W.S. Baker, L.C. Heilner. (seated)A.C. Dillingham, E.L. Ludlow, J.J. Augur, M.F. Wright, H.O. Rittenhouse. Information comes from a 1970 research paper that was passed along in 1990 by an official U.S. Navy Assistant archivist. <img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/MonitorJersey.jpg"> <img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/MonitorFull.jpg">

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01-09-2008, 12:36 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI have no problem with back damage, but front damage is a little distracting.

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01-09-2008, 01:31 PM

Posted By: Jimmy LeidermanAgree with Barry. That is a LOT of damage for my taste. I can live with some water stains and pencil marks but not this kind of print damage.

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01-10-2008, 02:20 PM

Posted By: CarltonHendricksCondition is an interesting subject. For me condition, that is, the amount of wear or damage that would preclude me from owning an item, isn't a matter only unto its self, but is relevant to other factors. Some of these factors would be: 1. The items historical significance 2. How rare the item is 3. The level or amount of damage, and prognosis for restoration if necessary 4. Whether or not I already have an example In the case of this Monitor Baseball team photo, based on the background information in the listing which is posted below, it appears to be either a U.S. Naval Academy baseball team, or at the least an early and rare monitor vessel team photo. Since a Naval Academy archivist I.D.'d the players, I assume they were at least cadets at some point. In my opinion, this photo qualifies as very important, and I'm sure the Naval Academy, or Library of Congress would welcome it in their collection. As for it's condition, the listing says it measures 8 1/4" x 6" excluding the board it's mounted on. The most significant or glaring damage would be the tear next to the player with the monitor ship on his chest. I'd estimate that tear to be about 3/8"-1/2" wide, which I would classify as "disappointing" but not "condemned to walk the plank". Particularly considering the clarity of the rest of the photo, and monitor on the players chest. It may be the only photo of that uniform extant, and it's part of our country's naval history. As for this photos importance, all things considered, on a scale of 1-10, I'd give it at least an 8. And the selling price of $1,213.00 seems quite reasonable. A bargain is state of mind! PART OF LISTING COPY: It is also very possible that the “Monitor Base Ball Club” pictured here was actually the 1870 Baseball Team of the United States Naval Academy. The photo came to us as part of a fantastic and historically important archive of material relating to George A. Calhoun and his service in the United States Navy during the 1870’s. Included in this archive was a number of pages from the 1870 US Naval Academy Class Book - each page with albumen photographs of the Academy grounds, various Naval Academy organizations and Cadet Portraits. This Baseball team photograph and its card mount match the other pages from the Academy Class Book and the fact that a photo of the Naval Academy Boat Crew is mounted on the back of the card mount seems to support the premise that the “Monitor Base Ball Club” was actually the U. S. Naval Academy Baseball Team of 1870. Another indication of this is the fact that one of the team members has an image of an ironclad warship (see the scans below) on the bib of his uniform. We have been unable to find any information regarding the US Naval Academy Baseball Team dating before 1872 but one of the players in the photograph offered here strongly resembles a player seen in a photo of that 1872 Academy Base Ball Club. Further research should be able to definitively identify the origins of this fantastic, early Baseball Team Photograph and we will leave that research up to the winning bidder. The rare and wonderful, 1870 Baseball Team Photo is extremely attractive and in very good condition. The focus is sharp and the contrast strong. There is some scaring to the emulsion but this was an effect of the original printing out process and not deterioration over time. There are 3 small surface scuffs that can be seen between the images of the 3rd and 4th players standing in the back row (see the scans below) and an edge chip at the bottom of the left hand edge (again this was created during the original mounting of the image). This is the very earliest, larger size, 19th century Baseball Team Albumen Photos we have handled and will be a fantastic addition to any collection!!! Please Note: This is an original, 1870 Photograph - it is NOT a reprint, reissue, reproduction or modern copy but an original Albumen Photograph taken, developed and produced in 1870!!! ADDED POST LISTING INFORMATION: On Jan-06-08 at 13:21:25 PST, seller added the following information: A kind eBay friend sent the following player identification from a Naval Academy Archivist: (Standing)J.J. Hunker, G.A. Calhoun, H.M. Jacoby, W.S. Baker, L.C. Heilner. (seated)A.C. Dillingham, E.L. Ludlow, J.J. Augur, M.F. Wright, H.O. Rittenhouse. Information comes from a 1970 research paper that was passed along in 1990 by an official U.S. Navy Assistant archivist.