An Interesting Pennant

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Posted By: <b>Mike H</b><p>Did anyone watch this auction?<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220179174555" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220179174555</a><br /><br />I really like the design features, colors, and overall size. I havn't seen many minor league pennants of this vintage. I was a bit surprised by the hammer price, but in hind sight, it seems reasonable.

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Posted By: <b>Clint</b><p>Mike I saw that pennant but didn't follow it. It sure went for alot of money. My question on these types of pennants is how do you know it wasn't from the Tacoma zoo. <br /><br />Clint

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Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Hi Clint,<br />You can bet the bank if Dave Bushing was bidding on it it wasnt from the Tacoma Zoo!!! Al

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hmmmm. Dave Eskenazi didn't put in a single bid on that pennant.

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Posted By: <b>Clint</b><p>Hi Al. Dave isn't mistake free as none of us are. I'm not saying this pennant couldn't possibly be from the baseball team. I'd just need more proof than just a tiger to spend a $1000 on it. Minor league pennants are extremely scarce. There are pennants from my area that have Wichita Indians on it but they sure aren't of the baseball team. If somebody from the Washington area says this is the real deal then my opinion would sway more. It likely is from the baseball team but how do we know for sure? Does anyone have any pictures showing this type of Tiger being used by the baseball team. <br /><br />I went and googled Tacoma Zoo before I asked the question so I wouldn't look completely stupid in case they didn't have a zoo. The picture at the top of the page was of a Tiger. I know just a coincidence. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Clint<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I think it's quite telling that Dave E. (Veangregg on ebay) did not bid on this pennant. Perhaps he already has it? Or perhaps it really is not associated with the ball club?<br /><br />There's probably a reason that the Tacoma team was named the "Tigers" and it's quite possible they were known for their Tiger cage at the Tacoma Zoo. It's all conjecture, but I'm with Clint here that I would need some kind of provenance before I spent $1000 on what could be a generic pennant.

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Posted By: <b>Mike H</b><p>It looks like the Tacoma zoo has been around since 1905. I would dig very deep before bidding that high as well. Maybe VeanGreg didn't see it.

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Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Hi Clint,<br />Some where between 133 bid and 1000 Dave found out something. Yes minor league pennants are scarce and espically that age. I would love to know who the other 2 bidders were just to see what they thought. You may be right a little more homework is needed but I feel Dave B. Did some and found out something we all dont know!!

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>"Some where between 133 bid and 1000 Dave found out something."<br /><br />You mean something like the unexceptional nameless guy in the back row being a HOF'er? hahaha. Cracked myself up with that one.<br /><br />Seriously, though. How can you guys tell that veangregg didn't bid on it? I thought the ebay x***x bidder names were not accurate as to first or last character of actual bidder ID's. <br /><br />Nice looking pennant though. I've been occasionally bumping around the pennant categories on ebay, but haven't bought anything yet.<br /><br />J

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Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Joann,<br />Glad you had a nice laugh! Sure beats the Peter C Posts!!<br />Just a small lesson on bidders. Veangregg feedback sits at 1872. There is no one even close to that who bid. There are other ways to know but if I tell you I might have to kill you !!! LOL. Al

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>I would love to hear from Dave Bushing or Dave Eskenazi on this one, as it truly is an enigma. It took all the restraint I had, NOT to go for it (as I could not pinpoint it to Baseball either...)<br /><br />I know the ebay seller listed it that way (for obvious reasons), but the Tigers left Tacoma after the 1904 season, and did not return until the '30s. If this can be documented as a 1904 Pennant, then Bushing did amazingly well on the price (single-season pennant, championship year, and perhaps the oldest documented PCL pennant extant).<br /><br />But this Pennant looks more to be from the 'teens, which poses more questions than it does answers. I think it is a longshot at best, that this one was from 1904 (though I could be wrong). If either of the "Daves" can shed some light, we would be most appreciative!

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I emailed Dave E. earlier today about the pennant, but have not heard back...if he emails I'll let everyone know his thoughts.<br /><br />The Tigers played in Tacoma in 1904 and the first half of 1905 and did not return until the 1930s...for me that is just too small of a window as this pennant has to be 1904-05 for this to be baseball because it is pretty obvious that it is pre 1930s.

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Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Mark ,<br />I would agree. My point before was that Dave found something out about this pennant. A 1000 dollar hunch is a bit costly! But like you said if the pennant dates to 1904 well then he in my opinion got a great pennant at a steal. Would love to hear from one of the members in the know about this item.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Right, Al.... <br /><br />I know a $1,000 hunch is too rich for my blood, anyway. I bet you're right... Dave B. must have either found something out, or already was familiar with this one. <br /><br />Did you see (in the bid history) where Dave placed a second "top bid" or ceiling bid? Apparently, he was willing to go lots higher, and felt quite confident with this piece.<br /><br />Interesting factoid about Dave B... He casually told me about 5 years ago that he once had every St. Louis Browns Pennant ever made (quite a statement!) He then sold them off because he said, quote "nobody cared". Based on his recent history, he appears to be back into Pennants in a big way.

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Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Mark,<br />Yes I did notice that. To me from his first bid at 133 to the end he knew something about that pennant. I knew Dave was into pennants I didnt know he had all the St. Louis Browns Pennants. I know Dave bids on some eclectic items but the way he bid on this still leads me to believe he knows something we dont!!!

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Felines were prowling the Puget Sound in the Northwest from the late oughts to the midteens (dare I say Obaks?).<br /><br />This is a baseball pennant, rest assured.<br /><br />Max

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Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>My question guys: the seller has a perfect 100% postive feedback rating for over 3,500 transactions and clearly offers refunds if he has mislabled the pennant as attributable to the Tacoma Tigers baseball team. <br /><br />What did anyone have to lose by bidding? <br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Max:<br /><br />What year would you estimate on this one? Mid to late teens? <br /><br />I wish I had more history on the Tacoma franchise (for bidding purposes), but with Bushing's ceiling bid, it likely would not have mattered. This one sure was a beauty!

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Mark<br /><br />I'm not sure of the exact year, as the Northwest League was from 1906 to 1917 in Tacoma. <br /><br />Max

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Posted By: <b>Mike H</b><p>Max is correct according to this link.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.vintagecardboard.com/tacoma.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.vintagecardboard.com/tacoma.htm</a>

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I heard from Dave E. and he told me he believes this IS a baseball pennant. I would say case closed...nice pickup for Dave Bushing.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>I wonder if Dave E. saw it on ebay and passed (I can't imagine he already has this one) or if it just slipped by him while the auction was active?<br /><br />Seemed like a pretty rare opportunity for a NW Baseball Aficionado. This pennant sure has an artistic and beautiful design!