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08-06-2007, 01:07 AM
Posted By: <b>Joe_G.</b><p>A neat photo I recently picked up. The picture was described as being from a Grand Haven, MI Store with 1913/14 date written on back. Do you think the items on display support that date? Unfortunately, no obvious baseball content.<br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186293327.JPG"></CENTER><br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186293409.JPG"></CENTER><br />Some "Hersheys Sweet Milk Chocolate", "Imperial Italian Squares" and much more. In fact, most of the items in the store are candy or mints.<br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186293566.JPG"></CENTER><br />"Bull Durham" tobacco sign, "Stag Tobacco" in 5 cent tin, and more.<br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186293693.JPG"></CENTER><br />"Owl Cigar", pipes, and many other tobacco products.<br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186293751.JPG"></CENTER><br />"Riz La + Cigarette Paper" poster.<br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186293826.JPG"></CENTER><br />What is this?, some kind of mechanized popcorn or candy machine? Notice the figurine on top.<br /><br />Thanks for any info you might have to offer.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Joe Gonsowski

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08-06-2007, 02:11 AM
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Can't id a year, but the photo style is early 1900s, which is consistent with a 1913-4 date.

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08-06-2007, 03:16 AM
Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Cool piece Joe. I don't have any info, but I can picture someone strolling out of the store with a green Cobb and handing it to a kid on the street.

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08-06-2007, 09:58 AM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Very cool photo and I agree with David that the photo style and mount are early 1900...It looks like there are some packs of Fatima cigarettes on the shelf. Great photo.

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08-06-2007, 10:40 AM
Posted By: <b>Jimmy</b><p>Photos and ads look before the 1920s<br /><br />Take Care<br /><br />Jimmy

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08-06-2007, 01:46 PM
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Joe, I forgot to add that I agree with everyone else that it's a great photo. The detail is amazing.

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08-06-2007, 09:57 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe_G.</b><p>Thanks for the responses. You might be right Dan, those packs do resemble Fatima cigarette design. Were T200s or T222s inserted in this type of pack during 1913/14? I should also give thanks to Leon as I lifted the Fatima pack image from his website.<br /><br /><CENTER><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186368916.JPG"></CENTER><br /><br />Do some scanners have the ability to hit better than 600dpi? I wonder if I could make out a few more details with a higher resolution scan.<br /><br />Any guesses on what the last picture in my first post is?<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Joe Gonsowski

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08-06-2007, 10:20 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I think it's an early popcorn machine. I sold a postcard of a popcorn wagon on a philly street circa 1910 and the popcorn machine in the wagon looked similar. I wonder what those packs are just to the side of those Fatimas? Looks like - dare I say it??? Old Judges...but I don't think they were still selling OJ cigs circa 1915.

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08-07-2007, 06:47 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>In the third photo, do they have Prince Albert in a can?

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08-08-2007, 05:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Ty Cobb in a can would be better....

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08-08-2007, 11:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>To answer a few questions - Fatima baseball cards were not packed in cigarette packs, rather they were in 100 cig tins. Also, a bit of a correction - I think this photo does have a nice baseball theme to it. If you look to the left of the Fatima packs already identified, you will see two "rows" of Obak cigarettes in a slide and shell configuration. A great companion piece for a PCL collector.<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186547226.JPG">

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08-09-2007, 03:48 PM
Posted By: <b>Greg Theberge</b><p>I agree with Dan, my guess would be a popcorn popper or possibly a peanut roaster. I remember seeing somewhere a similar top component on another machine.<br /><br />That photo is almost as cool as the photos of Nuf Ced's 3rd base. Very nice pickup.

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08-09-2007, 09:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>So the fact that there are Obak cigarettes there does this make this a West Coast photo? Were Obaks only sold on the West Coast?

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08-10-2007, 01:01 AM
Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>are Omar paper packs not old judge...... "Like the word of a gentleman......" 1915-1920 would be my guess but no reason not to believe an inscribed date if that's what you noted earlier - I can't see the post as I type.

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08-10-2007, 08:25 AM
Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>Others may correct me if I'm wrong but I have always assumed that just because Obak featured all west coast teams for their cards, it does not mean they were only a west coast cigarette. My guess would be that Obak's were most popular on the west coast (after all, the east coast had Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, etc to compete with) and as such, featured west coast teams. Also, just a theory - maybe some cigarette brands couldn't get permission to use major league players (remember the Ball letter asking for permission). ATC may have had a monopoly.

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08-10-2007, 09:59 AM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I don't know that the tobacco companies had to get permission from the league or teams at the time to put a players likeness on a card...the permission probably only had to be from the player himself. I don't think it was until 1969 that you had to get permission from a League or team.

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08-10-2007, 06:39 PM
Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Dan-I think that's right. Marvin Miller mentioned it in his book (great book by the way).