Mathewson Won in the Ninth Signed?

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Another Matty Won in the Ninth signed presentation copy is being offered on ebay.<br /><br />I found this article on the web,<a href="http://www.autographalert.com/2005-3-6.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.autographalert.com/2005-3-6.html</a> , suggesting the books were signed secretarially, but can't say anything more about the signature in the offered auction.<br /><br />Real or secretarial?<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.ca/Christy-Mathewson-signed-Baseball-Book-Won-in-the-Ninth_W0QQitemZ320119612680QQihZ011QQcategoryZ2726 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.ca/Christy-Mathewson-signed-Baseball-Book-Won-in-the-Ninth_W0QQitemZ320119612680QQihZ011QQcategoryZ2726 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br /><img src="http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/a1/6e/ad7d_3.JPG"><br /><br />Max

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Here's one from the REA auction. Notice the plate is different, though I don't know what if any legitimate variations exist. The REA catalog says they don't know how many presentation copies were made, perhaps 500, but the highest number they'd seen was 250. In other words, the eBay book is numbered higher than REA has seen.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/site/images_items/Item_8797_1.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I am no expert on autographs but the "M" in Mathewson is certainly suspect. It is obvious that the same person signed both Presentation copies. Whether it is secretarial or Matty we may never know.<br /><br />My copy of Catcher Craig. This has not been authenticated.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1180353652.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1180353686.JPG"> <br /><br />From SCD Baseball Autograph Handbook by Mark Allen Baker:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1180353705.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>David<br /><br />I'm not sure I notice any difference in the bookplates between the ebay auction and the REA auction, other than some slight difference in color. Is there anything I'm missing?<br /><br />Max

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The REA one is much smaller, the line after 'presentation copy' doesn't extend past the 'h' in 'Won in the Ninth' and has dotted lines above the solid lines. At first I thought the dots might be the way the typer typed, but there are also dotted lines where the signature was signed.<br /><br />Again, I'm not overly familiar with this book and don't know the variations to the signing and plate. However, under ordinary circumstances the book plates for a limited edition signed book would have been printed at one time and would be alike ... If two years later Christy itched to sign some more and asked the printer for new plates, that could explain the difference ("And this time remove those f***ing dots!")

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy W.</b><p>There was a Mathewson book like this that sold in the Sotheby's Halper auction (lot #410). The auction description is vague to say the least. I'm guessing the signature is secretarial. If I had a choice I'd take Steve's copy.

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Jeremey<br /><br />Luckily, I have the Halper catalogues at work <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. The plate is unnumbered, but the tail on the "M" drops down as with the other copies, and unlike Steve's.<br /><br />There was no certificate of authenticity, but I can't recall whether that was common at the time of the Halper auction.<br /><br />Max

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy W.</b><p>At the time there was no mention of PSA/DNA.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Mike Gutierrez authenticated autographed items for the Halper auction.

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy W.</b><p>With a selling price of over $16K I'm assuming the buyer felt it was signed by Mathewson.

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Feelings may be good, but I'd sure like some more details from the article I posted above. Here's the complete text:<br /><br />Follow-up To Christy Mathewson Book<br />Sotheby's Does The Honorable Thing<br />Withdraws Controversial Book!<br /><br /><br />"The infamous Christy Mathewson book Won In The Ninth that was sold in the March 16, 2005 R&R Auction for $10,655.19, plus the buyer's premium was put up for auction less than three months later in Sotheby's New York Auction ending tomorrow, June 10th.<br /><br />The New Hampshire based auction house had been notified by several dealers before the March 16th sale that the book did NOT contain a genuine signature of Christy Mathewson. The book was accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticty by PSADNA. PSADNA was also notified of the error based on the knowledge of several sports autograph authenticators and a signature study that was published on Christy Mathewson in a December 2004 sports magazine stating that the signature of Christy Mathewson in these books were signed for him by a secretary.<br /><br />There is no question that this is the identical book sold by R&R Auction less than three months ago as it contains a paper label affixed to the inside of the book indicating this is "Presentation Copy No. 4" and the name of the recipient has been erased from the label.<br /><br />After several calls and emails to Sotheby's, Mr. Dan Imler, Auction Coordinator, the auction house confirmed to www.autographalert.com that this item is being pulled from the sale and will not be sold tomorrow."<br /><br />Does anyone know what the December 2005 sports magazine was? Note that the authenticators state that "these books" were secretarial--not just the offered copy.<br /><br />Max

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>Dont collect autos, so probably a stupid question but, when secretarial sigs were done did the person signing try and sign as close to the original persons signature as possible, because the only difference i see is the M.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Secretarial signatures generally do not and try not to mimic the authentic signature. Most secretarial signatures are obviously different. Like you writing 'Joe DiMaggio' in your normal handwriting.