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09-17-2004, 12:06 AM
Posted By: <b>Joe Fornal</b><p>I have several M116 Sporting News Blank Back cards. I want to know if anyone has knowledge of them. They are hand cut and appear to be thinner than the regular cards. I have never heard of a notebook that had the M116 cards on it, so can anyone give me an idea about them? Also does anyone know if the notebooks that had the E95 cards contained Ty Cobb?

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09-17-2004, 08:36 AM
Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>Cobb hasn't been found on a notebook, or cut from one; however, I used to have a Cobb with the e95 image, on thicker stock, with slightly different design. I have been told that it might have been cut from an advertising poster.<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/catchme/UNKCOBB.JPG">

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09-17-2004, 09:26 AM
Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Looks like a proof to me.

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09-17-2004, 09:31 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Yep, everything is a proof. Why not.

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09-17-2004, 09:36 AM
Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>...

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09-17-2004, 10:42 AM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>No other text on the Cobb card except for the info on the bottom.

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09-17-2004, 10:48 AM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Before even a single "proof" can be printed...<br /><br />there must be some sort of conceptual rough draft done so that the printing press setter knows what to make it look like.<br /><br />This will now be known as a "PRE-PROOF PROOF" ... and will be FAR MORE VALUABLE than just a proof.<br /><br />These "PRE-PROOF PROOFS" normally resemble stick figure drawings, and I am having my son crank out as many as he can right now. They will be sent to ASA and will be for sale soon!

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09-17-2004, 10:49 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>definitely a proof......

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09-17-2004, 11:48 AM
Posted By: <b>Dom</b><p>'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'

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09-17-2004, 12:59 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>So then the next question is can a PRE-PROOF PROOF be considered a rookie card? <br /><br />I mean, even if the player is pictured on a professional team and it's his first card, it's not really a card yet so can a pre-proof proof be a rookie card? rookie proof?

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09-17-2004, 01:05 PM
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>But it will be called a "PROOKIE" card ...<br /><br />and it will worth MILLIONS!!

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09-17-2004, 05:50 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>It is part of an advertising poster or sheet. I have seen a Jim Jeffries with the same text style and card style that was clearly cut from a poster for an ice cream and candy vendor.

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09-17-2004, 09:49 PM
Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>M116 proofs are on thinner paper than cards in the regular set and blank backed but they are black and white, not in color. <br />Go ahead, lay me out again boys. I wish the proofs in this set were the color blank backed cards as I have a McQuillan, Cinn. the rarest card in the set, with that combo. PSA said it was authentic but wouldn't grade it because it was handcut.

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09-18-2004, 08:04 AM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I've got one too. Blank backed, has only yellow color to it. Since the history and marketing methodology for the set are so well documented, I always figured them for printers scrap.

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09-18-2004, 09:08 AM
Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>i recently acquired a seymour, baltimore eastern blank back. if you recall lew sold a trio of seymour, 1 regular new york, 1 finished 300 series back baltimore, eastern and 1 black and white blank back baltimore, eastern. <br /><br />apparently lew had seen 1 other, i don't know which he meant, finished card or blank back, or either one(my feeling). the lot brought 16K! so apparently 2 people thought they were fairly rare.<br /><br />does anyone else have a seymour, baltimore eastern? blank back or otherwise?<br /><br />scott

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09-18-2004, 08:36 PM
Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>Is the b&w proof Seymour Baltimore Eastern card which you bought on ebay the same b&w blank backed card which was included in the lot of 3 Seymours in Lipset's auction, or was it from another source? I was underbidder on the card you bought on ebay and would have gone much higher but lost track of the closing time. You got a real steal. If you deduct the cost of your card from the original lot, that means the original winning bidder shelled out over 15k for a common M116 Seymour worth about $50-60 and the color finished one. Wow. I can't see any way he will ever recoup his investment in that card (the color finished Baltimore Seymour) but as you said, I've never seen another one.<br />I don't know how many more b&w proofs are out there. I own 2 and it appears you own at least one, probably more.

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09-18-2004, 08:49 PM
Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>There are a number of collectors out there who don't care if they pay 2x, 3x, 4x what we consider "book value" for a card - they have incredible amounts of discretionary income ear-marked for vintage baseball items. I bid on some t206 scraps recently and it quickly became obvious that the sky was the limit for the winning bidder.

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09-19-2004, 09:39 AM
Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>bob, <br /><br />when i first saw the card i thought is was from the lot, but it is not cut the same. i do not think that is cut from an ad sheet, why in the world would they promote a no name minor leaguer? as to being a proof, i doubt that too. i would think most proofs would have survived in near pristine condition, never being circulated, i would align them with the original work for the card. i would place my bet on these being printers scrap, while not a proof in the strictest sense of the wor, just a couple of preproduction runs to make sure everything was running right, without wasting the ink. they appear to be hand cut, almost torn apart. and appear to have seen some circulation. for all we know the press guys took these pieces of "waste" home to their kids, thereby salvaging some of the rarest cards out there.<br /><br />these are just my thoughts, they probably make the card no more or less valuable. i am just happy to have the team variation.<br /><br />i think the one i got on ebay went for a very low price when compared to the lipset auction, even if you figured the 300 series finished card for 10K that means the blank back went for 6K.<br /><br /><br />scott