Even if you're not a cycling fan...

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield&nbsp; </b><p>WARNING - NOT VINTAGE RELATED!!! I just saw Lance won the 17th stage, increasing his lead to 4+ minutes and all but won a 6th tour. Regardless if you like the sport and in spite of all the doping allegations that seem to hang over every athlete right now, you gotta respect this guy. Anyone who can ride his bike at sprint speed up the Alps in 90 degree heat year after year and be so dominating (untouchable) is incredible/unhuman.

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>I follow the Tour too, and think Lance is probably the most dominant male athlete in the country. Saw that he won again this morning, pretty much sewing up his 6th straight Tour. I was also glad to see ESPN give him the top male athlete of the year with their Espy Award.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The drug allegations aside, I saw a special on Armstrong and it pointed out what a physical freak the guy is. His heart 1/3 larger and his lungs can process 50% more oxygen than the average person. That alone is huge advantage over the competetion.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>i saw something on him on espn too, but i must have missed that part. the human version of secratariate.

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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Have you heard the reports that as he rode through some cities, the local Frenchmen were SPITTING on him? How crazy is that? How quickly they forgot how we saves their as*&s at Normandy in WWII and now with all the garbage going on in Iraq, they won't even send people to help stabilize the area, but they want us out and piece all at the same time... <BR><BR>There is a reason that France starts with F.<BR><BR>Yes, Lance is the most dominant byciclist &lt;spell??? in many many years.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Armstrong has said his biggest fear is some nutjob on a roadside jumping out and trying to do him harm to keep him from winning. <BR><BR>I loved his response when asked about the spitting, "The French have never been know to have any class".<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Bill Kasel</b><p>I'm surprised they aren't all surrendering as he passes them. Lord knows they cower in fear at any sign of quick movement and/or hint of conflict and then wait for the rest of the world to bail them out.<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>I spit on you all!!!! It would appear that is the only weapon they own...since they sold all of their's to Iraq, Iran, etc. a few years ago.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>Je ne savez pas si j'aime le pays, car c'est si loin...<BR><BR>and another thing, the language sounds like a spoken symphony, but 2 years in high school never taught it to me!<BR><BR>Lance Armstrong is little short of s a human miracle, but--where did all this francophoibia come from? I'm surprised as hell.

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Posted By: <b>Gary B.</b><p>Careful people, it's hate that leads to wars. I have nothing personal against the French, The Iraquis the Saudis, hell the Aborigines in Australia... The acts of individuals can't condemn entire nations, and moreover, you can't blame individuals for being influenced by the philosophies and misinformation from their governments. I personally have love and compassion for all people. I digress.<BR><BR>I am certainly in no particular way a cycling fan, but like many Americans, I am deeply impressed by the accomplishments of Mr. Armstrong (any relation to Neil?), and sincerely hope he wins this 6th victory - he is truly an inspiration and someone who has overcome great odds to accomplish great feats. Kudos, dude...

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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>Screw the French.

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Julia:<BR><BR>C'est "Je ne savais pas", pas "savez". C'est le passe imparfait.<BR><BR>Moi, j'aime les cartes de baseball canadiennes, parce que elles sont en anglais et en francais (et meme des cartes seulement en francais). How does this affect the market price of these? Given the animosity towards the French (and presumably the French language), can I get these cards at a substantial discount?<BR><BR>Max<BR><BR><img src="http://www.ettinger.ca/jwood.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>Voyez, la plupart des cartes francais de basebball ont ete imprimes a Montreal. Le plus notamment ensembles produits a Montréal étant les 33-34 goudeys canadiens. Des cartes Francais de Quebecois ne sont pas donnees un escompte significatif, ou sont confondues avec les cartes francaises-Parisiennes, principalement parce qu'il n'y avait pas de baseball en France a ce moment-la. BTW, je refuse de transformer cette discussion d'une discussion politique, je promets <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>Le seul commentaire que je prends pour pour Ettinger l'artiste est ceci; le detail est merveilleux, mais le joueur doit etre dans un environnement de baseball comme en le debut du 20eme siecle, et pas simplement dans un nuage de bleu. Si vous faisiez cela, votre peinture serait encore meilleure!

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Merci Ben.<BR><BR>Voila des cartes quebecoise que vous avez sans doute vu<BR><BR><img src="http://members.shaw.ca/weder/quebec.jpg"><BR><BR>Malheuresement, l'artiste ne parle pas de francais, mais les nuages etaient tres a la mode a l'ecole Emily Carr, pas le baseball du debut du 20ieme siecle

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I have had the displeasure of traveling thru France. The rudest group of people I've ever met in my life. I'd rather go back to Sri Lanke, Pakistan or some other 3rd world backwater before I ever set foot in France again. Nice wasn't too bad, but that's only becuase they rely so heavily on tourism. Get out in the countryside, and you get to really experience the France. Rude, crass, filthy people. Me and my buddy we literally dodging kitchen scraps being tossed out the upper floor windows into the street where loose pigs and chickens could eat the stuff. Nasty, nasty place and I'll only go back if someone pays my way there for me.<BR><BR>And those damnable French-Canadians aren't much better :-p<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p> La carte de Moe Berg, '33 WWG, en francais et englais, est tres cher, parceque il avait su--on dit-14 langues. <BR> <BR><BR>Mais les autres cartes avec francais ne sont si cher que les cartes seulment en l'anglais.<BR><BR>Ou anglais ou francais--j'ai grand besoin d'une carte de Gehrig, '36 WWG. La photographie est manifique! (corrections welcome!) j'ai8 grand

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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>I was in Poland, Gdansk and Warsaw, for a symposium of their military contigency and NATO stuff. By far the nicest people I have ever met. They loved us, Americans, and frequently spoke of how grateful they still are for all of the help during WWI and WWII. Beware of the pickpockets though, they make a living by lifting wallets.<BR><BR>www.gdansk.com<BR><BR>By the way, an irony to this story. There were no, or very few, overweight people there. They are such a mobil society with a lot of walking, trains, etc. I am not sure how they do it other than walking a lot because there are plenty of fast food restaurants, their night life is full of late nights drinking and eating, notice I put drinking first. Ice cold Vodka is the flavor of the day, and very good at that. <BR><BR>I tell my wife, if I ever go out for milk and never return...I am in Gdansk, Poland where the most beautiful women I have ever seen are. She tells me to make sure that I do not come back, I am not sure what she means by that. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>Moi, j'aime l'Ettinger. Pourquoi pas "nuages de bleu"? Voila la carte N162 de Kelly--nuages des tous les colours.<BR><BR>Gary: Savez-vous que vous avez dites que vous m'aimez?<BR>Since I can't spell in English, it's too much to demand that i spell in French.

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Julia and Ben<BR><BR>There are other works of The Ettinger (hmm, I wonder if I'll have to start addressing her like that...sort of like Rickey Henderson referring to himself in the third person) without the clouds<BR><BR><img src="http://www.ettinger.ca/habilis.jpg"><BR><BR>Dirt, baseball, early 20th century player, grass...only a couple of irksome skulls buried beneath the dirt to give it that "hey, I don't get it as art" type reaction.<BR><BR>but for the ultimate in clouds, here's Smokey...<BR><BR><img src="http://www.ettinger.ca/smokey.jpg"><BR><BR>Max<BR><BR>(and yes, she knows the uniform wasn't originally red...)

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Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>Wow, that second portrayal of smokey is simply AWESOME! (not smokey Joe, is it?) Love the colour scheme and the mood it sets. I hope I didn't come across as patronizing with the blue cloud comment, I think all the art is great and I appreciate your sharing it with us. I'm somewhat of an artist myself, but my stuff is usually not at all baseball related. Julie- got a scan of that Eddie Mathews sketch?

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1090605498.JPG"> <BR><BR>T.O: Sketch of graffiti artist trying to escape police--Ben:<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1090608460.JPG"><BR><BR>(Sorry, Ben--I couldn't resist. Maybe he's been working all night on a wall--after a baseball game?)

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Posted By: <b>Gary B.</b><p>I actually said that I love the French too, but it's funny that you thought I meant something else <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>Ok, my high school French is getting REALLY strained here...

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>..which means " Yes, Julie, I love you (to a close friend, etc.) the French (language only, I think) also." It's the "t" what did it. Maybe you've had more practice talking to French speaking individuals than about the French language! Certainly more fun...

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>All I have to say is, "Ich bin ein Berliner" :-p<BR><BR>Jay- who loves donuts but is not a donut

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Posted By: <b>Gary B.</b><p>Would it have been correct to say; Oui, Julie, j'aime le francais aussi? Anyway, you know what I meant. Not to say I don't love you, but I was saying...oh, never mind...<BR><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1090609090.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>You should see some of the things I (try to) write in French. NOT!!!

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Posted By: <b>Kevin O</b><p>I'm pretty much the least confrontational person I know, but I've got to say a word or two on the direction of this thread. <BR><BR>I am one of the (apparently unfortunate) few who enjoy and respect both France and the French. I researched a book there a number of years ago--one which would have been impossible to produce without the remarkable kindness and generosity of so many people who had nothing to gain by helping me. I've been back four times since, still waiting to encounter the stereotypically rude Frenchman. I've had disagreements of opinion with people, but I've never felt threatened or unsafe because of them; indeed, most arguments have ended with a cup of coffee. As in most places, people seem to treat me the same way I treat them. I think the problem with too many people who travel abroad is that they expect to be treated as "special." When they get treated like everyone else, they're sure somebody must be screwing them.<BR><BR>My true appreciation for the French antedates my book trip, however. It was July of 1981, and I was a nineteen-year-old kid in the US Navy. Our ship had been invited to a small town on the French Riviera to celebrate the anniversary of the day the city was liberated by the Allies. There was very little to do in the town, so not many people wished to take the small boats to shore for the evening celebration. About seven PM or so the city square began to fill up with mostly older women, who placed bottles of expensive champagne in a large fountain. An orchestra of older men soon followed, and the air filled with American big band music. <BR><BR>The women took our hands and danced with us until after 2:00 AM, fishing bottles from the fountain and telling us that our fathers and grandfathers and uncles and great uncles were "angels of mercy" who risked their lives to free them from tyranny. "No matter what you hear," one woman told me, "there will always be those who will never forget." Our captain was so moved by the experience that he allowed us to stay ashore overnight, giving in to the requests that we allow the town's citizens to house and feed us. When our ship left harbor the next day, dozens of men and women stood at the sea wall waving French and American flags. <BR><BR>I'm sure it sounds hokey, but it was the French who taught me the full meaning of American sacrifice.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> C'est le loi?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>When I travel, I never expect to be treated special. I know enough German not to come across as ignorant American and love better then to explore local area rather than go to the tourist traps. When I was in France, my friend that was with me spoke what I thought was fluent French, yet we treat with rudeness and arrogance when they figured out we were American. Please explain to me how speaking local language and wanting to learn about the local warrants rudeness? This was not isolated cases. This was repeated in town after town. We even had one street vendor refuse to sell food to use becuase we were Americans even though we spoke French to him and did not act "American" in any way. Apparently, my friend spoke "book" French, or some such, and not "true" French, which the locals seemed to readily notice. And yes, I know that in general people are good by nature, but when confronted by repeated rudeness and arrogance, you have no choice but to write off the group. I have other places I'd raher spend my meager travel dollars than with the French.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>One of my favorite French tourist stories is when two of my unilingual Quebecois friends (that is, they spoke no English) travelled to France. When they spoke to the locals,the Parisiens continually would only reply to them in English, as they professed not to understand my friends. I don't know if this was merely a condescending response on behalf of the French in rejecting the perceived lower class French spoken by the Quebecois, or whether the French genuinely didn't comprehend the Quebecois French. <BR><BR>Oh well. I seem to recall that France was on the side of the 13 colonies in the Revolutionary War, so I guess they did something right once upon a time. Sadly, it looks like next year there won't be any French in the major leagues, unless the diplomats can make their way to RFK.<BR><BR>Max<BR><BR><img src="http://www.ettinger.ca/josh.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>and after repeated exposure to the soundtrack, I found myself learning a little French, and also noticing that when the people got excited, there would be sounds in their speech which I didn't particularly associate with French, but when they spoke with any degree of calmness, their French was as she is spoke in France. No matter how amusing or sad or whatever they were, they spoke perfect French--except when they got very excited or angry. So I think the chances that your non-English speaking friends who travelled in France would speak French as well as any Frenchman, unless they were trying to say "F**k you!" (Many Americans know this expression in French; I could not make head not tail of the soundtrack that was thus translated!)