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05-11-2004, 06:48 PM
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Can anyone please tell me what they know about cards that are encapsulated by PSA as "Authentic"? There are no grades associated to the encapsulation only the word "Authentic".<BR><BR>I heard that the cards were not assigned a grade by PSA because the card didn't meet a minimal grade that would be acceptable by the submitter. The submitter would want the card encapsulated but no grade assigned.<BR><BR>Does anyone know the real story? Or is the above true?<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>I've contacted SGC and suggested that they grade altered cards as an SGC10A. The SGC10A would mean that the card receives the lowest grade possible and the "A" qualifier would indicate that the card was altered in some way (recoloring, restoration, trimmed). At least the card would be authenticated as original and the grade provided would reveal that the card was altered. Does anyone else like this idea?

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05-11-2004, 07:01 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>IT's been batted around here a few times. If you do a search, the threads should show up.<BR><BR>Jay

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05-11-2004, 07:12 PM
Posted By: <b>botn</b><p>is that PSA has designated high profile cards as Authentic if the card is a real card but had been trimmed or been subject to some other kind of alteration. I have only seen Levi Bleam selling these cards. Not sure if it was something that they were doing for Levi as a test market or if it was a favor. <BR><BR>I do not know of other collectors or dealers who have submitted cards for the Authentic designation that were otherwise not gradeable. I have also seen PSA use the Authentic designation for cards that were menat to be cut out, like Post and Bazooka issues, when the cards are cut too small.<BR><BR>From their website<BR><b>The Grading of Hand Cut Cards <BR>PSA will grade virtually any card that has been hand-cut off of a panel, box, etc. (Post Cereal, Hostess, Bazooka, Strip cards, etc.) keeping the following information in mind. This service does not include traditional sheet-cut cards. PSA will not grade cards cut from sheets that can be obtained in a normal fashion. For example, PSA will not grade a 1979 O-Pee-Chee Wayne Gretzky card cut from a sheet because that card was issued in non-sheet form. On the other hand, <BR><BR>PSA will grade a 1959 Bazooka or 1961 Post Cereal Mickey Mantle because those cards could only be obtained in one fashion - removed by hand from a box or panel. <BR><BR>In order for PSA to actually assign a grade to any of the cards that possess visible/defined borders on all four sides, evidence of that border must be present. If the cut exceeds the visible border for the card in question, PSA will encapsulate the card as "Authentic" only. If the card is severely undersized and suffers in overall eye-appeal, the graders may deem the card not suitable for authentication or reject the card as minimum sized altogether. <BR><BR>Keep in mind that, for cards that do not possess visible/defined borders, the cards must still fall within a certain size requirement for that particular issue in order to qualify for an actual grade. In other words, the borders must be virtually full in order for a grade to be rendered. Otherwise, as stated above, a label of "Authentic" will be assigned or, in some cases, the cards may fall short of the size requirement altogether. This is not an exact science, however, PSA will do its best to provide consistent guidelines for these types of cards. <BR><BR>PSA suggests that, in order to achieve the highest grades, the cuts of the cards should be relatively close to the visible borders without exceeding the limit. Cards that exhibit a clean, accurate and properly shaped cut have the best chance at achieving the highest grades. Eye-appeal is very important. When it comes to excess paper or cardboard around the edges of the visible borders, the graders will place significant importance on overall eye-appeal. Keep in mind that all cards of this type will be designated as "Hand-Cut" on the PSA label for accuracy. In addition, if the customer chooses, PSA will grade and encapsulate entire panels if those panels will fit in any of our current PSA holders. With the exception of the aforementioned items, normal grading criteria will apply. </b><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

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05-11-2004, 10:10 PM
Posted By: <b>Anthony</b><p>I"ve got a card that psa graded "authentic" It's a '67 Topps proof of Roger Maris showing him with the Yankees (the production card reflected his trade to the Cardinals). It is blank backed and presumably hand cut. I had purchased another version of the card (from Superior) a few months prior that was graded similarly, but someone at Fed Ex decided they needed the card more than I did. Levi has all 3 '60 Fleer #80's graded this way- all were hand cut. I think PSA is somewhat selective what they grade this way, and I've yet to see any other company grade cards similarly. Too bad- I'd rather see a card graded as altered and be able to make my own decision than guessing from a scan in an auction house catalog or ebay.

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05-11-2004, 11:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>One reason I bring up the PSA "Authentic" grade is because I've seen a few 19th century cards that were encapsulated this way. I believe one was an N300 (I don't recall the player). Typically PSA or SGC would not grade a card like this if it were altered. I've also recently seen the rejection slips that say NO HOLDER from PSA. I'm used to seeing SGC and PSA provide a reason for rejection rather than just a "No Holder" explanation. I'm just curious, that's all.

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05-12-2004, 10:26 AM
Posted By: <b>andy</b><p>i think psa with grade anything that is somewhat scarce as authentic at the submitter's request (this need to be approved by a psa big wig). i have a t206 o'hara stl variation graded "authentic". it is beat up pretty good, but it is NOT altered in any way. i requested the authentic grade, as i found that more appealing to look at than a psa 1.

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05-12-2004, 12:29 PM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I have a PSA "Authentic" T206 Cobb/Cobb back. I believe they encapsulated it that way because it was hand cut and most likely a proof.<BR>Jim

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05-12-2004, 12:41 PM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I have a PSA "Authentic" T206 Cobb/Cobb back. I believe they encapsulated it that way because it was hand cut and most likely a proof.<BR>Jim

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05-12-2004, 01:40 PM
Posted By: <b>Aaron M.</b><p>"i think psa with grade anything that is somewhat scarce as authentic at the submitter's request (this need to be approved by a psa big wig). i have a t206 o'hara stl variation graded "authentic". it is beat up pretty good, but it is NOT altered in any way. i requested the authentic grade, as i found that more appealing to look at than a psa 1." <BR><BR>I've seen a few PSA Authentic slabs, and I think PSA is missing the boat on a much larger niche market. I think if PSA would go ahead and automatically slab authentic, but altered (trimmed and such) cards (with a notation in the slab explaining what alteration took place) instead of just sending them back, they could put all the PRO's out there out of business. <BR><BR>Even though PRO would ignore the trimming and assign the card a 8 or 9 or 10, I bet collectors and dealers out there would be far more inclined to put their money behind a PSA Authentic slab. I think buyers would have much more confidence and sellers would achieve higher prices. <BR><BR>

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05-12-2004, 04:35 PM
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Jim B, may we have a scan of the ty cobb back card? front and back, thanks.

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05-12-2004, 04:46 PM
Posted By: <b>Halleygator</b><p>I would love to see it!

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05-13-2004, 02:36 PM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I will attempt to provide a picture with my newly acquired digital camera this weekend. If I can't figure it out or the picture is not good, I will scan it in at work on Monday.<BR>Jim

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05-14-2004, 11:40 AM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I have JPEGS of the Cobb image, but can't figure out how to post it. I went to the FAQ posting section and it says to click on the Insert Object button, but no such button appears on my screan. Any help?<BR>Jim

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05-14-2004, 12:45 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>JimB,<BR><BR>Send me the JPGs if you want to. I can post them for you.

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05-14-2004, 05:55 PM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>What is your e-mail address?<BR>JimB

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05-14-2004, 06:02 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Click on my name from my post.<BR><BR>

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05-14-2004, 09:45 PM
Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>great to see you on here. you can also email me the jpeg and i could post it for you. just a few more cobb/cobb back and you got that market cornered <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>quan

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05-17-2004, 03:03 PM
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Quan,<BR>Thanks. I don't know what has taken me so long. This message board is great. I will now attempt to insert the Cobb images.<BR>JimB<BR><BR><BR>I give up. I have gone to upload and it does not seem to work.

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05-17-2004, 04:47 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p><img src="http://www.caramel-cards.com/images/t206Cobb_Cobb.jpg">

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05-17-2004, 09:09 PM
Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>What series is the Ty Cobb back from? 150,350, 460?