M116 Lobert (was "Greed")

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Have to love what happened to this poor fool crossing over this card. Doesn't PSA have the same offer as SGC where if the card doesn't cross to the same grade they won't reslab it? Then again, maybe this guy broke it out himself and submitted it.<BR><BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4127962160&category=31718&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBBI%3AIT&rd=1" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4127962160&category=31718&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBBI%3AIT&rd=1</a><BR><BR>Jay<BR><BR>[edited for context]

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>We have seen two recent examples of PSA giving "VG" to cards with plenty of paper loss - there must be something else wrong with this card.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Given that the seller does not include a scan of the back, it is impossible to tell what a fair grade would be for the card. Who knows if actually got an SGC 84 or not. If that is SGC's definative conclusion, why wouldn't he resubmit it to them. It would certainly be worth it , if it came back an 84 again. Sounds fishy to me.<BR>Jim

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>The other possiblity is that he is a PSA fanboy and is trying to make SGC look bad.<BR><BR>Jay- watched too many episodes of the X-Files

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Posted By: <b>carew4me</b><p>Yep, a PSA koolaid drinker so bent on flamming SGC that he is willing to $100's of dollars doing it.<BR><BR>I bet this clown actually thinks we LANDED ON THE MOON TOO!

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>get with the program

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Posted By: <b>Scottopotamus</b><p>SGC's population report does show one (1) SGC 84 for this card. Granted, we can't tell if this is the card in question.<BR><BR>Personally, I have always had good results with SGC.<br><br>Scottoptamus<BR>My T206 Web Site<BR><BR><a href="http://www.freewebs.com/scottopotamus" target=_new>http://www.freewebs.com/scottopotamus</a>

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I am the seller of the card in question. I was alerted to this thread by a fellow collector, who thought I should respond.<BR><BR>To answer some of the questions, it was not an attempt to be greedy. I was pursuing this set and the T205 set, but decided I could only handle one of the two, so this one is going. PSA is my grader of choice, but since graded examples of this set are not abundantly available, I'll buy SGC cards to cross. I do this with my T205 set as well, and will live with the consequences, both good and bad.<BR><BR>This is not an attempt to slam SGC. It's to show this is a quality card that is not a "typical" GOOD card, and it's also the true story of this card.<BR><BR>This is my first post on this board, but I will attempt to add a scan of the original SGC holder it was broken out of. The serial number on the flip is 1189857-026 if the scan doesn't come up.<BR><BR>Bernie Carlen<BR><BR>Edited: To add name<BR> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1083714805.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I have also added a scan of the back of the card to my E-Bay description. I realize it's hard to tell from a scan, but it does show the imperfection is not pronounced.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Just curious, did PSA give you the option to not cross it over before cracking it out? I had one card I tried to cross over and they asked if I wanted to leave it in its original slab since they said it would not grade by their standards.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><BR> Hi Jay,<BR> Give me a break, If Psa had graded this card a 7 and Sgc a 30, you would be all over PSA. Instead of attacking a seller you don't know, admit that SGC screwed up and the PSA corrected it. If this seller were "truly greedy", he would have simply sent the card back to SGC for reslabbing instead of taking a bath on EBAY. In fact, I bet someone buys this card for a song, sends it to SGC, PSA or GAI, and receives another high grade. <BR><BR> Be well Brian<BR><BR><BR>PS I have seen TOO MANY cards with paper loss receive high grades from grading companies. examples M116 Johnson EX-MT PL, T206 Doyle Hands Over head EX-MT PL. I guess the Cheetoes munchers forgot to plug up the paper holes..............

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Brian, the post has nothing to with PSA bashing. Could I have been more diplomatic, yeah, but even if I am working on a registry set, I'd want PSA to give the option to not break out the card if it is not going to cross over to the same grade. I just can't imagine myself doing what this guy did. And as I mentioned in a previous post, SGC gave me the option if I wanted to crack out a card that was not going to cross over at the same grade.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><BR> Jay<BR> PSA does allow you to submit slabs with a minimum Grade for crossover, but it doesn't look like that's what happened in this case. The seller still has the SGC slab, so he must have Unslabbed the card himself. This isn't PSA's fault, but another perfect example TO BUY CARDS, NOT HOLDERS........ be well Brian<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>Bernie Carlen</b><p><BR>I have never used the crossover service. I prefer to crack the cards out of the holder, and submit raw. To me, I'd rather not "cloud" the grader's judgdment, either good or bac, with a different company's slab. Just my preference.<BR><BR>Bernie

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Posted By: <b>bcornell</b><p>First off, I'm glad to see the seller ("carleniv") come here to post - thanks.<BR><BR>Looking at the back of this card now, I still can't tell if SGC or PSA was right. If there's paper loss, it's very minimal. Grading is subjective and this card proves that favorite truism as well as any I've seen.<BR><BR>There's a tendency to attribute all questionable listings to malice on the part of the seller. I changed the title of this thread before the seller came on because I thought it was jumping to conclusions. Skepticism works well in most cases, but not in all of them, as this listing shows. <BR><BR>Bill