Shipping and handling

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>I recently won an auction from someone who I have bought plenty of stuff from in the past, so I didn't read the fine print which included a hefty increase in shipping.<BR><BR>Is $6 shipping and handling (insurance is extra) for one un-graded card reasonable? If anyone can produce a single reason why that amount is reasonable, I'll shut up and never complain about s&h again. Thanks.

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Posted By: <b>JC</b><p>The sellers time to do all the work in mailing it out to you.. I think we have all been surprised by shipping fees like this time to time... All N All if it was disclosed than you should not have any beefs. I can think of Card dealers who charge more...

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Posted By: <b>Rob L</b><p>In regards to eBay, I think some people use the inflated S&H to offset some or all of the eBay costs to run the auction.<BR>

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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>Priority Mail with insurance up to $100 is $6.05. I don't see any gripes except with the Postal Service.

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>Scott:<BR><BR>I don't sell many cards, but when I do it costs me approximately $0.92 to send one card (packed quite well) via First Class mail. If it's a $275 Old Judge card then add on another $4.20 for insurance making the total $5.12 - still well short of what you got charged <b><u>without</u></b> the insurance.<BR><BR>I think people who start nickel-and-diming you to death by charging you for the envelope, their time to package your item and their gasoline cost to drive to the Post Office are ridiculous.<BR><BR>Kevin

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Posted By: <b>kyle davis</b><p>people who charge high shipping fees usually do so because they do a good job of shipping and it takes TIME. Proper Have you ever stood in line at the post office or a back window at a large post office in a major city? If your buying a decent $100 or more card you are probably dealing with an adult over 30 who is probably college educated, has a family, at least one or 2 business or careers he is involved in and probably pulls in at least 6 figures a year, So $6 is a pittance to pay a professional for their time. <BR><BR>It's great that people who have plenty of spare time, no other careers and live in small town can charge low prices for shipping not all of us are so lucky.<BR><BR>[Edited to include poster's name. If you're going to express opinions, please include this info. Thanks.]

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Assuming they do a good job packing, i.e. bubble wrap envelope and a new one, that's not re-used, perhaps its justified, but of course it depends on the card. What gets me is one example, where I won two ungraded cards, shipping costs were $3 for cards I won in auction worth $5. I receive the cards in a small white envelope, barely large enuff to fit the two cards, and the person shipped it with at $0.37 stamp. That gets me mad. When i asked about it they gave a long story about the cost of the envelope, the paper wrapping the cards etc. . and to make it worse said "to cover his paypal fees". Well if that's the case, then state it in the auction details.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>it's not CLEARLY stated in the description OR if people won't work with you if you win multiple auctions. If it states $6.00, I have to factor that into my purchasing decision. On anything about $30-$40 I'm buying insurance. So....the person could have used UPS and saved about $2-$3.00 for a ground shipment (plug). Regardless, if it's clearly stated, along with how much insurance is and it's extra, it's hard to argue after the auction end. If you don't like it, and I've found MANY that I don't like, contact the person first. Sometimes, they've just been burned so many times, they do add money in. Other times, they just look at what the highest amount to anywhere would be and set a flat rate. I charge $2.00 for a single card up to 4-5 cards--as long as value isn't that high. Toploaders, padded envelopes, professionally printed labels. Probably do pocket 50 or 75 cents but that's just the price of admission I guess. I'm not driving a Bentley off of it or anything. $6.00 seems pretty high unless they mandate that you use Priority Mail. That's a problem that I have for a single card someone mandating Priority or even UPS. For a $6-$10 card, $6.00 is a little steep. What was the value of your card?<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I have noticed a lot of auctions lately with outrageous shipping prices and a note stating to take this into account when bidding. It's obvious that more and more people are using shipping fees to try minimize eBay's take from their auctions.<BR><BR>I don't have a problem with $4 or $5 shipping if they are actually taking the time to package the card properly. It pisses me off, and I am sure everyone else, when you are charged that much and you get your card in a top loader and a small white envelope.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>I agree with Tom. I always make my bid with shipping charges and policies in mind. If someone is selling a $40 card and charging $6 to ship it generally does not sell for $40. Let's not forget, nobody is holding a gun to our heads to bid on an item. If you don't like the shipping policies you can always pass. I do however hate to get charged $2 or $3 for shipping of one card and it comes in the mail in the white envelope. The least they can do is buy a bubble mailer. You can buy them for .10 each in bulk.

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Posted By: <b>John(z28jd)</b><p>I bought an old judge off Kevin last february for $275 and the shipping charge was $8.50! But he was nice enough to send me pictures of himself dressed like both Old Hoss Radbourne giving me the finger and Billy Ripken holding the infamous "f face" bat.I figured the time he took to dress up and make those cards was worth the extra shipping.<BR><BR>Also more on the subject,i always factor high shipping costs into my bid.I won a single t206 common last week for around $17 and the shipping was $6,so i bid $19 because i was willing to pay $25 total for the card

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>s&h of $6 is for 1st class USPS shipping...not Fedex...not UPS...not priority mail.<BR><BR>Although I appreciate the responses, some of you missed the point: I am paying the amount asked for, I was just curious if you all thought it was reasonable. Some of you obviously do, which amazes me, but that's why I asked.<BR><BR>In any case, there are few sellers on ebay who I would have been willing to buy an un-graded FroJoy Ruth from, so that's that.

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Posted By: <b>John(z28jd)</b><p>Scott,if it helps,i dont think its reasonable but as everyone said,if they state it in the auction then they have the right to do it.<BR><BR>When i sold on ebay i charge $1.50 for single uninsured cards,and that more than covered expenses of packing the card very securely.I didnt see a reason to ovecharge but if people want to get paid for their time and clearly state it,then i cant gripe.<BR><BR>Ive probably lost cards here and there on ebay just because the shipping was too high and i bid less so you could also say that it doesnt help sellers as much as they think

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>As already expressed if it was stated in the auction then so be it. Do I think it's reasonable? NO...I DON'T......I think it's part of doing business NOT to make money on shipping and handling, unless that IS your business? (personally I will handle ALL cards for free). I charge about $3.00 to $4.00 per card insured to $100 via UPS. I combine winning shipments too. UPS does a GREAT job for me (your're welcome Tom). If it is a high value item I charge about .50 per $100 of insurance over the first $100. Again, I completely disagree with making money on the handling and/or shipping.....but that's just me...

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Leon - yes, you are right, I agree. If the auction states s&h, then you pay it...I will...that wasn't my question, but thanks.<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>Putting together the clues that Scott gave in his post, I am pretty sure he is talking about me.<BR><BR>I change $6 for shipping as a flat fee for all items that weight less than 1lb. A yearbook with 50 pages is the same price as a single Baseball Card. I currently ship most, if not all items, priority mail in a box to minimize damage. Within the next two weeks I am going to probably be switching to DHL/Airborne as my local post office can no longer handle the volume of shipping that I do.<BR><BR>The main reason that I have to charge $2.15 over the actual charge of shipping is because of my location. If I was living in a po dunk town in the middle of Iowa, I would not have to charge that much, but there is very little help available on Cape Cod. Everybody has a "Help Wanted" sign in the window. Most people who have low paying jobs on the cape are from Brazil or Ireland and they are only here for a few months at a time. I can't find a reliable full time packer for less than 30K a year. On top of that add the taxes that I have to pay over and above just the cost of thier salery. Now factor in the cost of shipping supplies such as bubble wrap, tape, packing peanuts, as well as warehousing (rent is $12 a sq ft), time that we currently spend transporting the packages to the post office, etc. After all of that Shipping is pretty much a break even for me.<BR><BR>I always mention the cost of shipping in the item description so that it does not come as a surprise to the buyer when they get thier invoice and I do combine shipping when possible. <BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>bruce white</b><p>rookie poster...be gentle on me.<BR><BR>i am one of those people who charge $6 to ship the graded sportscards i sell on ebay. it is not a money making price. i run a small business unrelated to my hobby, so time is in issue. i therefore prefer to use ups because the shipping is computerized and therefore convenient and efficient. also my clients and i get $100 of insurance included, we can track the shipment all the way to it's destination, and when preferred we can require an adult signature. i do use new bubble envelopes and they cost .50-.75 at staples. add it up...$6 isn't a rip.

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>I tend to beleive that, if eBay fees and envelopes and tape and time to package and go to the PO and PayPal fees are looked at, few eBayers are making a profit from the shipping and transaction fees. Or, if they are, they're making like 50 cents an hour. Some people say that envelope costs and hours spent shouldn't be counted, but I've never figured out why not. <BR>

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Scott - you are right. Rather than simply bidding on your items with complete trust as I used to do, I need to start scouring the fine print - hell, after your recent explanation of s&h I should be prepared for it to jump to $12 a card any day now.<BR><BR>But it's completely understandable - in fact, I'm thinking of jacking my s&h up to $15 a card. I ship far less volume than you, so each trip to the post office costs me more per card. Also, I'm sure I don't get the same volume discounts you do for shipping material...hmmm - $18 per card is starting to sound more reasonable. Then I noticed you only charge $1.50 for USPS insurance of cards valued under $50 - man, a 30 cent hike is crazy - hell, it costs you at least $2.00 in time to fill out that insurance slip!<BR><BR>I'm feeling so guilty about s&h now, that I almost feel obliged to send Scott s&h tips whenever I win auctions from him.<BR><BR>P.S. - when I call you guys with questions, you aren't charging me consulting fees are you?

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>Ok Mr Passive Agressive, I am glad that I explained it well.<BR><BR>You should value your time, especially if you are trying to make a living doing this. Don't be like those weekend warrior show jockeys who give up two days of their life to make $50. Since when did it become a crime to try and make money? Shipping should be at least some sort of profit center for me, but I don't want my shipping to be unreasonable, and it sounds like other people agree that $6 is not out of line.<BR><BR>Scott

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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Hi Scott (Gaynor),<BR><BR>Though runscott's sarcasm was labored (sorry Scott), I know many of us really don't think $6 is all that reasonable for s/h, not in a case where a card valued less than $200 could be shipped for less than a dollar in postage. (If a card needs to be insured for a good bit, that's a totally different story.)<BR><BR>The items I've bought from you have usually been groups of cards, which cost a bit more to pack and ship properly, so I've never had any problem with what you charged. Also, I know your shipping costs are clearly stated up front, and it's your prerogative to set those rates. In other words, you are nowhere near the worst offender. <BR><BR>BUT, I don't see why you should feel so comfortable using s/h as a "profit center." <BR><BR>Having heard that, I'll definitely be bidding a little less on your items from now on than I would have before, and this isn't personal, it's just what I'd do with any seller who had raised postage rates. <BR><BR>Regards to all,<BR><BR>Tim Newcomb

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I hope everyone here that is bent out of shape about $5 or $6 for shipping is just as indignant when they order something from Lands End or something offered on TV. These places make Gaynor's shipping rates look cheap. Gaynor does this fulltime, unlike most of us who sell a few cards here and there, so everything he does as far as getting the product to the customer needs to get figured into how he is going to make a profit. You think these shipping pricesw are outrageous, try selling comics mail order. Once you get past a few comics, the price for shipping starts getting pretty steep very quickly. When I had my comic store, it wasn't unusual to sell a lot on eBay where the shipping was 50% or more than the cost of the lot. So be glad we collect something that doesn't incure some really serious shipping charges.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>As Tim's example points out, it all ends up getting sorted out by the market.<BR>

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>Tim, the point that I was making is that it should be a profit center, but is not, because I only charge $6. If I was using shipping as a profit center, then I would be charging the $12 that Scott F suggested. <BR><BR>Most people do buy more than one lot, so rarely is somebody paying $6 to ship one single baseball card. I would say that happens about once every two or three weeks. I would think that if you are spending $150-200 on a single card, it is worth $6 to have it arrive fast and safe. <BR><BR>Scott

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>...because insurance is non-optional. So the fast, safe delivery you mention costs a bit more. Yes, $6 for an insured $203 card is almost exactly right.<BR><BR>Also, my question was not "How much would you be willing to pay", but rather "is $6 reasonable?" The question was so simple that I didn't see a need to bring insurance into it. In any case, we all understand your reasoning, and that you are in the business of making money off of consignments. Thanks for your responses.

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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>I probably shoulda kept my trap shut-- I don't think anyone was really arguing that $6 was excessive to ship cards that cost nearly that much to insure and mail. <BR><BR>My main peeve, as I said, was those folks who want $6 (or even $5) to ship a $20 item and then pay 60 cents to send it, sometimes not in a padded envelope. Scott is clearly not in that category.<BR><BR>Tim<BR><BR>PS to Runscott: btw, MOST of your attempts at humor do work for me <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>I was peeved because I asked a simple question and, as usual, it turned into a cat-herding exercise, complete with a fancy two-step and even some minor butt-smooching.

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>I will say this, I have never really had a problem with people charging whatever they want for shipping. Especially full time dealers as there are a lot of costs that go into running a business. However, Making money on insurance that the Post Office provides to me is not right at all. I would also say that if I had a customer that was as upset as Scott I would at the very least ship the item Priority Mail and insure it at no additional cost. Dosen't seem like much to give up to keep a loyal customer to me.<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Back from NYC and rarin' to go:<BR><BR>There is no right or wrong answer to this question. If the seller states shipping up front and you decide to bid, you have no reason to complain. <BR><BR>That said, I find that $2 is about right to ship a single card properly wrapped without insurance. If you want insurance, it should cost more. I also do not begrudge a seller who charges a small time premium on the item, especially if it has to be taken to the post office. <BR><BR>Lastly, S&H on cards is small potatoes--companies that sell consumer electronics, clothing, and other common ebay items typically hit for much, much more in costs. I just bid less to compensate.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I received the card today, shipped super-fast, despite my personal check.<BR><BR>I apologize for hammering you about insurance - upon receiving the item with delivery confirmation and no insurance, I realized that you are self-insured, which is completely reasonable - the one time I had a complaint about a damaged item you returned it immediately for a full refund.<BR><BR>Scott

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Posted By: <b>dan</b><p>If he only uses UPS then that is reasonable. I deal with Bob Bostoff at Empire Sports all of the time and no matter how small the item, shipping is $6 because he only uses UPS and they are EXPENSIVE!